Author Topic: use of cadet ranks  (Read 41070 times)

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Offline my72jeep

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2012, 10:18:27 »
And somehow Gunner doesn't offend but private does....

The program has been gutted over the past few years and replaced. It no longer looks like army cadets and infact wanted to move towards "adventurist expedition esque training vice "Army".

The old style army cadets of the 80's-90's is no longer the case. It is a neutered program and not what most parents remember.
And that Dogger is the issue, the rank and file CIC at the unit level can see this. this new direction is coming from DCadets. It is the brain dead idea of a few people with to much time and little IQ's.
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Offline dogger1936

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2012, 10:34:57 »
And that Dogger is the issue, the rank and file CIC at the unit level can see this. this new direction is coming from DCadets. It is the brain dead idea of a few people with to much time and little IQ's.

I know brother!

Having personally known a couple of the "writing board" who developed this million dollar new project; it doesn't surprise me that it's SNAFU. Instead of trialing it at a unit or two they pushed this new course down to the corp level (albeit without the thought that corps need the equipment to facilitate the new program). I have heard nothing but complaints about the program at corp level and nothing but praise about it at the det.

It has officially sucked any interesting "army" type things out of the program that these kid's are joining for.

There are only two corps here that are doing excellent. Funny thing was I was warned about these corps with laughs and eye rolls at the det before conducting my SAV there. I could give their staff and kids nothing but praise when I seen them. I wrote up an excellent report putting them number 1 in the province....however the det commander doesnt bother to fill in his portion of the SAV report so nothing get's passed on anyway....making the ACA job moot anyway.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2012, 10:44:01 »
Each CIC captain at Det level are making a tough living on in $76 357.

I'm speechless.
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Offline dogger1936

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2012, 11:14:49 »
I'm speechless.

We have Capt's here who aside from their 30 or so days (total) training have no education to speak of. They are buddies with the B class clique and will retire on a Capt's pension moving from job to job in the det and maybe finishing off their careers at regional level retiring as a Maj.

The overhead in this program is staggering.

CIC shouldn't be retiring with a Canadian forces pension higher than that of regular force members regardless of rank. CIC in the communities would never accumulate enough pensionable time due to paid days; however there are many people making a full time career off the CIC. Many people are not aware of that.

Offline Northalbertan

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2012, 01:10:28 »
Hey, I fully expect my reserve force pension to cover the cost of my cigarettes, or maybe a case of beer per month.   We are way off topic here though and perhaps this discussion should take place in another thread.

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Offline PJGary

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2012, 01:28:54 »
The feedback received in support of the English version was not unanimous for or against.

Am I the only person who finds it hilarious they had to clarify that?  :facepalm:
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Offline cicdude

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2013, 01:17:44 »
First, I'm aware that this thread fizzled out ages ago. However, I feel as though I have an obligation to reply because the posts were tainted with misinformation and nefarious generalizations. I'm sure I won't win this war, but I feel obligated to at least reply.

CIC out at the corp level are getting 4 half days pay as month to run a youth program. Each CIC captain at Det level are making a tough living on in $76 357. That alone should provide a reason for CIC's at det's should feel the need to HELP the corps. 

CIC at corps level are paid up to 25 days per year (the CO up to 35) [Ref: CATO 21-03]. So that's roughly 2.5 (3.5) days per month. Additional pay for attending courses, regionally-directed activities, CSTC work, or "specialist" days for work with other units are extra. As people may be aware, officers often work well above their 25 days in a volunteer capacity (such as supervising cadets during the Legion's poppy campaign, coaching marksmanship teams and drill teams, band, etc.).

CIC at Det-level are paid the same as any other Capt on Class B. Many full-time Det and HQ staff are actually helpful at the corps level. They don't just plop in anyone to most of these jobs; these people have experience working within the CCO. There are some derps/derpinas here and there, just like in any organization with internal politics.

CIC at corp levels deserve answers. "I don't know if there's reference." Is considered an answer within the CIC and promotes nothing but incorrect information half the time.

No, that's not considered acceptable "within the CIC". That's called laziness, and it's rampant everywhere in society.

We have Capt's here who aside from their 30 or so days (total) training have no education to speak of. They are buddies with the B class clique and will retire on a Capt's pension moving from job to job in the det and maybe finishing off their careers at regional level retiring as a Maj.

The overhead in this program is staggering.

CIC shouldn't be retiring with a Canadian forces pension higher than that of regular force members regardless of rank. CIC in the communities would never accumulate enough pensionable time due to paid days; however there are many people making a full time career off the CIC. Many people are not aware of that.

The majority of CIC officers whom I work with at the corps level and CSTC have completed post-secondary education or are currently pursuing it. Many of the CIC officers I know work as teachers, police officers, nurses, adult and youth corrections officers, engineers, and IT programmers. I'm not just spouting that off as the politically correct response, it's true.  There certainly  some who are factory workers or labourers too, but they often have experience as a cadet, parent, or other related youth work experience. The notion that most CIC do not have any education is false, but is perpetuated by the occasional goober who doesn't know what he or she knows and doesn't know. The CIC has a fair share of "late joiners" who enroll, but most those I know are in their 40s and have lots of work and family experience that make them valuable to the program, often after volunteering for quite some time.

If the CAF were to provide all CIC officers with the same training as PRes an infantry officer, it would simply be wasteful. The 30 (or so) days of training readies the person to take on additional, informal, on-the-job training with cadets. They don't just take people off the street and make them a Capt and send them to Det. In order to get these full-time jobs you compete  with others who have many years experience working with various parts of the program.

You're right that the pension is out of reach at the corps level (without CSTC employment). But is this not the same for most PRes members?

The question about whether people know about the full-time career types is interesting. There are politics and cliques within every organization, and I've heard many stories from PRes friends about the politics within their own units. Within the CIC, I would say most are aware that these types exist. Many of the people working full-time do it for the right reasons and aren't just there to collect their paycheque, but of course that is a generalization. There's dead weight in every organization.


Offline Nerf herder

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Re: use of cadet ranks
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2013, 07:01:34 »
The area in which dogger1936 was speaking of was in NLFD.

This is what he experienced directly and what he observed.

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