> Cadets / CIC

use of cadet ranks

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--- Quote from: dogger1936 on July 09, 2012, 17:54:01 --- The feedback received in support of the English version was not unanimous for or against.

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Am I the only person who finds it hilarious they had to clarify that?  :facepalm:

First, I'm aware that this thread fizzled out ages ago. However, I feel as though I have an obligation to reply because the posts were tainted with misinformation and nefarious generalizations. I'm sure I won't win this war, but I feel obligated to at least reply.

--- Quote from: dogger1936 on July 10, 2012, 10:36:41 ---CIC out at the corp level are getting 4 half days pay as month to run a youth program. Each CIC captain at Det level are making a tough living on in $76 357. That alone should provide a reason for CIC's at det's should feel the need to HELP the corps. 

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CIC at corps level are paid up to 25 days per year (the CO up to 35) [Ref: CATO 21-03]. So that's roughly 2.5 (3.5) days per month. Additional pay for attending courses, regionally-directed activities, CSTC work, or "specialist" days for work with other units are extra. As people may be aware, officers often work well above their 25 days in a volunteer capacity (such as supervising cadets during the Legion's poppy campaign, coaching marksmanship teams and drill teams, band, etc.).

CIC at Det-level are paid the same as any other Capt on Class B. Many full-time Det and HQ staff are actually helpful at the corps level. They don't just plop in anyone to most of these jobs; these people have experience working within the CCO. There are some derps/derpinas here and there, just like in any organization with internal politics.

--- Quote from: dogger1936 on July 10, 2012, 10:36:41 ---CIC at corp levels deserve answers. "I don't know if there's reference." Is considered an answer within the CIC and promotes nothing but incorrect information half the time.

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No, that's not considered acceptable "within the CIC". That's called laziness, and it's rampant everywhere in society.

--- Quote from: dogger1936 on July 10, 2012, 12:14:49 ---We have Capt's here who aside from their 30 or so days (total) training have no education to speak of. They are buddies with the B class clique and will retire on a Capt's pension moving from job to job in the det and maybe finishing off their careers at regional level retiring as a Maj.

The overhead in this program is staggering.

CIC shouldn't be retiring with a Canadian forces pension higher than that of regular force members regardless of rank. CIC in the communities would never accumulate enough pensionable time due to paid days; however there are many people making a full time career off the CIC. Many people are not aware of that.

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The majority of CIC officers whom I work with at the corps level and CSTC have completed post-secondary education or are currently pursuing it. Many of the CIC officers I know work as teachers, police officers, nurses, adult and youth corrections officers, engineers, and IT programmers. I'm not just spouting that off as the politically correct response, it's true.  There certainly  some who are factory workers or labourers too, but they often have experience as a cadet, parent, or other related youth work experience. The notion that most CIC do not have any education is false, but is perpetuated by the occasional goober who doesn't know what he or she knows and doesn't know. The CIC has a fair share of "late joiners" who enroll, but most those I know are in their 40s and have lots of work and family experience that make them valuable to the program, often after volunteering for quite some time.

If the CAF were to provide all CIC officers with the same training as PRes an infantry officer, it would simply be wasteful. The 30 (or so) days of training readies the person to take on additional, informal, on-the-job training with cadets. They don't just take people off the street and make them a Capt and send them to Det. In order to get these full-time jobs you compete  with others who have many years experience working with various parts of the program.

You're right that the pension is out of reach at the corps level (without CSTC employment). But is this not the same for most PRes members?

The question about whether people know about the full-time career types is interesting. There are politics and cliques within every organization, and I've heard many stories from PRes friends about the politics within their own units. Within the CIC, I would say most are aware that these types exist. Many of the people working full-time do it for the right reasons and aren't just there to collect their paycheque, but of course that is a generalization. There's dead weight in every organization.

Nerf herder:
The area in which dogger1936 was speaking of was in NLFD.

This is what he experienced directly and what he observed.



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