Author Topic: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.  (Read 7249 times)

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Offline Bomb Disposal Bob

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Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« on: November 07, 2012, 17:48:26 »
This Tuesday I was asked by one of our future officers a former MCpl with the 48th Highlanders to start a meeting before we parade to discuss topics affecting the corps, specifically enforcing/keeping the uniforms of our Cpl's, Rfn, and Cdt's above the CCO standards. This brought up a question that I have just thought of and it is, what are the roles and responsibilities of a MCpl? And what limitations do we have in respects to enforcing discipline with the lower ranks/the corps as a whole? I have tried to do a search on what the roles of a MCpl within the CF but I was unable to find any results. I do know that our Future Officer was a former Battalion Commander/ Trainer, so I assume that it is a training role. Some ideas I have for this meeting is discussing the possibility of doing inspections before parades either in the mess or on the parade square, and the chance to run classes on dress and deportment.

Thanks
-BDB
Nos Mos viam invenient - We Will Find A Way.

Offline Occam

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 18:09:45 »
For what it's worth, the role of a MCpl in the CF can be likened to that of a manure spreader.

Take crap from above, and distribute it as evenly as possible below.   ;)

Offline MedCorps

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 18:26:22 »
The MCpl is generally the 2 I/C of a section (8-12 men).  They are responsive to the Section Commander (a Sergeant). 

They really are the first level of leadership, but lead from within the section. The hold the appointment of the senior corporal, but still live, eat and drink with the other Ptes and Cpls for which they lead.  It is a hard job as Occam pointed out as they often take the will and intent of the chain of command (manure) and have to deliver it to the Ptes and Cpls and then have to work and live with them as the consequences of the will and intent of the chain of command unfold. 

You can also think of them as a working supervisor. They have the same formal trades training as most of the Cpls, with more experience, and they also have formal leadership and methods of instruction training. They often instruct technical topics to the Ptes and Cpls.

It is one of the hardest jobs in the CF (right next to Pl WO), if done right, in my humble opinion.

I hope that helps.  It would be nice to see a serving MCpl weigh in on the conversation.

MC

Offline Towards_the_gap

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 21:00:34 »
I was going to post a remark about how Hitler was the Prussian equivalent of a Lance-Corporal, but then I wondered about the relevance to a cadet corps....

...However, additionally, the MCpl must also be capable of leading the section and taking over for the Sgt should he become 'hors de combat'.

Offline Robert0288

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 23:25:20 »
As is the responsibility of a Cpl to step up if the MCpl becomes otherwise engaged.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 23:36:43 »
OK, I'll take a stab at this as an NCO myself. You can find some inspiration in the very name of the rank- "Master Corporal".

Take everything that's expected of of a corporal, and be seen by your subordinates to be a master of it. Excel at the basics so that any other cadet can simply look at you and see how things are to be done. That means stepping up and making the extra effort on the small details that may not carry a lot of weight in and of themselves, but that guys simply notice.

Beyond that, a Master Corporal begins to represent the interests of his guys to his higher ups. A sergeant or warrant officer - a good one, anyway - will pay at least a bit of atention to what a trusted MCpl brings to a conversation. The MCpl will normally have a closer relationship with the junior ranks than the higher ups will, and so will be in a position to see and hear just a bit more at the lowest levels.

If you've got a specific task - dress and deportment - great. What you need to figure out now is how to make the other cadets *want* to hit that higher standard. The first, best thing you can do is exceed it yourself, and to act in a way that the rest of them aspire to be you. It's tricky in cadets. It's hard to get 13 and 14 year olds to care about these things- but they're all there for some reason or another; if you can figure out what that is and to tie it in so they WANT to do what you NEED them to do, you'll find that the rest of your job is just that much easier.

I hope this is of at least a bit of help to you. It's been quite some time since I was a cadet, so I'm leaning more on my CF experience here.
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Offline MedCorps

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 12:58:43 »

Beyond that, a Master Corporal begins to represent the interests of his guys to his higher ups. A sergeant or warrant officer - a good one, anyway - will pay at least a bit of atention to what a trusted MCpl brings to a conversation. The MCpl will normally have a closer relationship with the junior ranks than the higher ups will, and so will be in a position to see and hear just a bit more at the lowest levels.


This is so very true... anytime I want to know what is REALLY going on in the unit I ask the MCpls informally in casual conversation.  They are the ones who have the pulse of the unit, know how the troops feel whilst still filtering out the BS, and are generally not afraid to share their two cents. 

When you talk to a MCpl you often get a completely different (and often valuable) picture then when you ask the RSM, Adjt, OC's, CSM's, Pl Comds, WO's or Sgts. 

MC

Offline Bomb Disposal Bob

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 13:58:39 »
This is so very true... anytime I want to know what is REALLY going on in the unit I ask the MCpls informally in casual conversation.  They are the ones who have the pulse of the unit, know how the troops feel whilst still filtering out the BS, and are generally not afraid to share their two cents. 

When you talk to a MCpl you often get a completely different (and often valuable) picture then when you ask the RSM, Adjt, OC's, CSM's, Pl Comds, WO's or Sgts. 

MC

Now all I need to do is get that communication going between our Sgt's and WO's to us MCpl's. Thinking of it now, i'm going to bring this up during the meeting. Getting the communication started. Because currently all information is going from the RSM to the WO's to the Sgts then down to the Cpl's and Rfn and Cdts, and the chain of command totally ignores the MCpl's.

@Brihard most of our MCpl's are as I could say older. I am 17. And not trying to boast, but I have been told that I represent myself to the likes of a WO/MWO. We are lucky to have cadets in our ranks that actually care about the program and are not there because they are forced to show up but rather that they want to be here. And in the words of our future officer " You guys are here to show everybody else that this is no rootie tootie lollypop army cadet corp"

Thanks for the help everyone. I will defiantly be sharing this with the group, and use this information to make a guideline for the roles/Responsibilities of a MCpl (Specifically)

- BDB :salute:
Nos Mos viam invenient - We Will Find A Way.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 10:11:42 »

Thanks for the help everyone. I will defiantly be sharing this with the group, and use this information to make a guideline for the roles/Responsibilities of a MCpl (Specifically)

- BDB :salute:
defiantly of definitely?
the approach you use will determine the outcome more than the message you are trying to convey.
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline Bomb Disposal Bob

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Re: Jr NCO meeting's on cadet nights.
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 12:08:29 »
defiantly of definitely?
the approach you use will determine the outcome more than the message you are trying to convey.

Spell check. I have always had a problem spelling the word. And i'm on an iMac at co-op and it automatically corrects misspelled words.
Nos Mos viam invenient - We Will Find A Way.