Author Topic: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)  (Read 25125 times)

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Offline Hax24

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Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« on: February 20, 2013, 18:51:12 »
One of my friends has a cousin who is a Seargent in artillery, not sure which unit, though. He has airborne training and is in a makeshift unit with a few other airborne-trained artillerymen, and they have parachuted numerous times on tour in Afghanistan with pieces of artillery for quick deployment.

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 18:56:44 »
One of my friends has a cousin who is a Seargent in artillery, not sure which unit, though. He has airborne training and is in a makeshift unit with a few other airborne-trained artillerymen, and they have parachuted numerous times on tour in Afghanistan with pieces of artillery for quick deployment.

      :pop:
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~Chris Evans

Offline chowchow1

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 20:55:13 »
One of my friends has a cousin who is a Seargent in artillery, not sure which unit, though. He has airborne training and is in a makeshift unit with a few other airborne-trained artillerymen, and they have parachuted numerous times on tour in Afghanistan with pieces of artillery for quick deployment.

Oh my... ummm... well.... Ive got nothing.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 21:17:26 »
One of my friends has a cousin who is a Seargent in artillery, not sure which unit, though. He has airborne training and is in a makeshift unit with a few other airborne-trained artillerymen, and they have parachuted numerous times on tour in Afghanistan with pieces of artillery for quick deployment.

*Sigh* Someone has to say it, so I will:

Bull.

Either your friend is lying, or he has been lied to. That's so far form any conceivable truth that I cannot imagine it being a simple misunderstanding of something that is factual. Sorry dude.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 21:41:35 »
airborne training .... in a makeshift unit

 :rofl:

Offline Hax24

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 22:17:10 »
Sorry I'm applying to reserves, I'm not in the army yet so I don't know how everything works. Is it not possible that artillerymen can parachute with equipment?

Offline Brihard

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 22:31:18 »
Sorry I'm applying to reserves, I'm not in the army yet so I don't know how everything works. Is it not possible that artillerymen can parachute with equipment?

Oh no, there absolutely are jump capable artillery units in the world, with suitably light equipment that could be airdropped. But there sure as hell have not been Canadian artillery parachuting into remote locations in Afghanistan. There's haven't been canadian *anyone* parachuting in Afghanistan, with the possible exception of special operations forces that you or I would never be privy to the details of. But even there, I highly suspect not.

Don't worry, nobody's faulting you for not knowing. Someone people just like to tell stories that are inaccurate at best or complete fabrications at worst. I've never been able to figure that out.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 22:32:06 »
Is it not possible that artillerymen can parachute with equipment?
Perhaps Brihard was unclear.

Artillerymen have parachuted, marrying-up with their artillery pieces and their ammo, and providing fire support. Sometimes, in sunny places like Dien Bien Phu, they got more ammunition dropped to them so they could carry on in their fun & games.

So yes, it's more than "possible."   Clear so far?



Now, did we have "a makeshift unit" (with or without "a few other airborne-trained artillerymen"?  NO

Did any Canadians parachute in Afghanistan ("numerous times" or otherwise)?   NO

Nod if you understand that if there was no "makeshift unit of airborne-trained artillerymen," and no parachute ops in Afghanistan, then that pretty much negates whether or not there were "pieces of artillery for quick deployment," right?




To sum up, what Brihard meant to say is, your friend and/or his cousin are two-faced lying bull-shitters.

Is that clear enough?   [Here you nod again  :nod: ]



Edit: his response was quicker because:  a) he's polite, and  b) he didn't use colours.   ;)
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
~Chris Evans

Offline Hax24

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 22:38:16 »
Alrighty, sorry about that. I'll ask him again and see what he has to say this time.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 22:47:24 »
Alrighty, sorry about that. I'll ask him again and see what he has to say this time.

Typically, the bullshitters at the origin of such stories will just try to weasel out of committing to any details- or they'll pull some nonsense like 'Well of COURSE those guys wouldn't know about it. It was a secret after all.'

Either way, anyone telling a story of doing airborne drops in Afghanistan as part of the CF is talking out of his arse. The only jump I'm aware of in Afghanistan was the American 75th Ranger Regiment in 2001.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline MCG

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 23:58:19 »
Is it conceivable that the original story was of airmobile arty ops as opposed to airborne arty ops but that the distinction was lost in the telephone game?

Offline Hax24

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 15:55:45 »
No the story was definitely that his artilleryman cousin was parachuting with pieces of artillery.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 16:36:59 »
No the story was definitely that his artilleryman cousin was parachuting with pieces of artillery.

Then it is a complete fiction.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 16:45:16 »
And if I am not mistaken our current guns are not "jump" capable.......
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Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 17:28:52 »
And if I am not mistaken our current guns are not "jump" capable.......

Tee hee.  Anything is jump capable as long as you have the right mechanics waiting on the ground. 

Here is a vid of dropping 2 x 777s. It doesn't show the landing, so not sure how it turned out. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXq0-A9Xxw


In this video at the 2:39 it shows something being dropped, and by the length you could assume it's a 777.  Unfortunately it doesn't show the landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzxT9kXDx4g

Maybe the OPs buddy is in the vid.  Kind of like where's Waldo  ;D

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 17:37:10 »
....and note that nobody is strapped to those guns, nor jumping with them, ;D

Offline Jammer

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 17:44:55 »
Our 777s did get lifted around the AOR a few times though...

When 450 Sqn gets thier shiny new Shithooks I'm sure this will be one task that 2 Horse will be keen to exercise.
What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 18:27:06 »
Tee hee.  Anything is jump capable as long as you have the right mechanics waiting on the ground. 

Here is a vid of dropping 2 x 777s. It doesn't show the landing, so not sure how it turned out. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXq0-A9Xxw


In this video at the 2:39 it shows something being dropped, and by the length you could assume it's a 777.  Unfortunately it doesn't show the landing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzxT9kXDx4g

Maybe the OPs buddy is in the vid.  Kind of like where's Waldo  ;D

Thanks Gny, I was not aware .....
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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 10:46:54 »
I don't have anything from the thread this was split from but has anyone suggested that the brother's cousin's sister's uncle's friend might have been an American artilleryman?
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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 11:13:44 »
No the story was definitely that his artilleryman cousin was parachuting with pieces of artillery.

Sounds like you need to out the Walting *******.  8)

http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Walts
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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 11:22:41 »
.....might have been an American artilleryman?
I don't know of any ad hoc US 'fire support-R-us' type organizations, and I was pretty well situated to have heard about such a group.


"When you've eliminated the impossible".....I'm sticking with the BS premise.
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
~Chris Evans

Offline Colin P

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 11:34:54 »

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 14:21:52 »
Anything can be air dropped.

At least once.
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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 16:11:31 »
The only jump I'm aware of in Afghanistan was the American 75th Ranger Regiment in 2001.

Elements of 3rd Battalion,  75th Ranger Regiment jumped into Kandahar 19 Oct 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rhino

Quote
Raid on Kandahar

While the campaign was under way in the north, U.S. forces also struck in the southern part of the country in the heart of the Taliban movement near Kandahar. On the night of 19-20 October Rangers and other Special Operations Forces (SOF) soldiers conducted airborne and air assault operations against several sites in Kandahar. Four MC-130 aircraft dropped 199 Rangers of the 3d Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment (-), onto a desert landing strip southwest of Kandahar, code-named Objective RHINO. Assisted by circling AC-130 Spectre gunships, the Rangers quickly secured their objective. Then the soldiers and attached psychological operations (PSYOP) loudspeaker teams moved toward a nearby enemy compound and cleared it without resistance. Having secured the landing zone, they assisted follow-on helicopter forces of SOF soldiers that had additional raids to conduct in the area. In all, the Rangers and SOF soldiers spent almost five-and-a-half hours on the ground with only a few minor injuries. Although the tactical results of the raid were mixed, the Taliban was shown that U.S. forces could strike anywhere and anytime and that no location in Afghanistan was a safe haven any longer. Later, when U.S. marines landed in that same area on 25 November, they would establish a new base on the Ranger landing zone, called Camp RHINO.
http://www.history.army.mil/brochures/Afghanistan/Operation%20Enduring%20Freedom.htm

Quote
After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, 3rd Ranger Battalion was deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.  On the night of Oct. 19, 2001 portions of Companies A and C conducted a daring low-level parachute assault onto Objective Rhino, a desert airfield in south-western Afghanistan, in order to capture key logistical information.  During follow-on missions, forces from Company B, 3rd Battalion accomplished a successful night parachute assault into Bastogne Drop Zone to secure a desert landing strip in support of a special operations raid.
http://www.goarmy.com/ranger/heritage/third-ranger-battalion.html


70 Paratroopers from B Co, 3rd Battalion, 504th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 82nd Airborne Division conducted a combat jump in Afghanistan in February 2003
http://www.blackfive.net/main/2004/05/recently_declas.html
http://www.socnet.com/showthread.php?t=38139

Offline MCG

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2013, 20:15:04 »
A few countries have done para drops in Afghanistan.  Canadian arty has done none.

Offline Petard

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 23:49:32 »
Something is definitely skewed in the story telling, or quite possibly the originator of the message is on a completely different frequency that nobody else gets

Far as I know, the only airborne related thing that happened with Canadian M777 during the Afghanistan "era", occurred in 2006, but it did not involve any actual air drops in theatre. Not intentional drops anyway

In the summer of 2006, roughly 6 months after the M777 came into service, the Artillery School SMIG was sent to the states to observe air mobility trials with the M777*. The trials focused on lifting the gun in air mobile Ops (i.e. by helicopter and Osprey), and only limited air borne trials were done. The SMIG did not take part in any of the jumps, and neither did any other Canadian gunners. The intent was for him to quickly get these proper rigging procedures for heli Ops sent overseas, so they could be used instead of the "make shift" techniques the troops had come up with.

The gun had come into service so quickly, the specifics of how to rig the gun had not been worked out yet before it was operationally deployed. It didn't help either that the different nations with aircraft capable of lifting the gun (Dutch, UK and US Chinooks) each had a slightly different twist, so to speak, on the rigging (brakes on/off, number of free chain links, spades up/down).  On two occasions guns were damaged as result of the "experimentation" that was unavoidably going on. For the most part it got sorted by Winter 06/07, and the different techniques were passed on from roto to roto mostly as a lessons learned type of thing. It would not be until Winter 2009 that a consensus was reached amongst the different nations lifting the gun, in theatre, on one rigging procedure. By the time CFLAWC finally issued their version of rigging, the gun configuration changed yet again; modifications that required yet more trials. These changes were comm's eqpt hung on the gun carriage itself, which amongst other things changed the gun's C of G.

I've haven't had any direct involvement with the gun in about 2 years now, but still stay in touch with those that are.  There is still air mobile training going on with the M777, and there is a Bty developing airborne skill sets, but no air drops with the M777, yet. It might seem makeshift while it is going on, but there is some method to the madness.


* There were only two of us in the school with the background necessary to attend the air mobility trials in the states in 2006, and "bone" was the lucky one that got to go while I, as the School Mr Gnr, worked on 155 ammunition (Excalibur) issues

Offline FJAG

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 00:25:07 »
Had the pleasure in 1970 of being one of two safety officer sent to augment the Airborne Battery when they dropped into Suffield for an exercise with their L5's.

I wasn't jumping just waiting off to the side of the LZ and then snowmobiling out so that the guns could go into action as soon as the crews were down. The guns and ammo came in on the first few chalks followed by the gun dets and CP that flew on separate chalks immediately behind the guns.

Incidentally that video of the 777's was quite impressive. I'd like to know how long it takes to de-rig one of those suckers. Again, if memory serves me correctly the L5s were putting rounds down range in under twenty minutes of the crews landing.

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Offline Bomber for Life

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Re: Cdn Airborne Arty in Afghanistan (from: Airborne Engineers)
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2015, 20:43:45 »
2 RCHA, Y Battery does mantain a large number of jump qualified OP parties and FAC's to deploy with jump coys. It was stood up in 2010.
Echo battery also has a troop of 81mm mortars that are designated with jump coy status. But that's only been around since 2011.

Is it possible that was what was being referred to here?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 10:17:38 by Bomber for Life »