Author Topic: Infantry/Cadets  (Read 24144 times)

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Offline Zaibeee134

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Infantry/Cadets
« on: March 29, 2013, 16:15:01 »
I'm in the Canadian army cadets 2754 service battalion and I'm 15. I was wondering if I can join the Canadian forces reserves The Royal Regiment of Canada. I want to join the reserves and I'm interested in infantry they specialize infantry. So I want to join the reserves at 16 which is on Feb. 7 next year, in grade 10. I want to still be a full time student in high school. while in the reserves I want to finish gr 12 and then do full time until march because I heard march is when the infantry is usually open and then in march I want to switch to the regular force and work full time (career). Is this possible? Can I join the reserves at 16 or do I HAVE to be 17?I don't want to go to University or College and want a career after high school. I'm also deciding to be a combat engineer if I can't be in the infantry.

MikeL

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 16:24:57 »
I don't believe you can be a Cadets and a Reservist at the same time.

AFAIK,  aslong as you maintain full time student status(ie don't drop out) you can join at 16 provided you meet the requirements and there is a spot open in the unit.

Also,  you can not join while in grade 10,  you have to have grade 10 completed.  You can transfer from the Reserves to Regular Force,  but it may take awhile.  If your goal is to join Reg Force after high school,  then just do that and don't join the Reserves.

*edit*  what's the point of the poll?  Are you going to base your trade choice on which one gets more votes?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 18:04:48 by -Skeletor- »

Offline 2ndChoiceName

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2013, 17:33:58 »
Have you spoken with anyone at the Royal Regiment of Canada? When I called in late August/early September they had no positions available. Also, as you may find out soon, not many Reserve units like it when someone joins and then leaves 2 years later for Reg Force. They've spent all this time training you and then usually just as you're trades qualified or a short time after, you leave. Check one of my first threads that I started, it deals with a very similar situation.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2013, 17:45:03 »
Have you spoken with anyone at the Royal Regiment of Canada? When I called in late August/early September they had no positions available. Also, as you may find out soon, not many Reserve units like it when someone joins and then leaves 2 years later for Reg Force. They've spent all this time training you and then usually just as you're trades qualified or a short time after, you leave. Check one of my first threads that I started, it deals with a very similar situation.

Ummm?  Have you ever heard of the term "Force Generation"?  That is part of the raison d'etre of the Reserves; to provide trained soldiers for the Regular Force.  It may be a frustration, but it is a reality: Reservists join the Regular Force.  If a Reserve Unit fails to cooperate with its members, whether it be their CT to the Reg Force or even a VOT to another Trade, then that Unit is FAILING in its responsibilities.  Their members become disillusioned and demoralized, and find other options, such as RELEASE, in order to get what they want.  A FAILING GRADE for said units, and there are many.  I have no idea why they would rather keep disgruntled soldiers, rather than let them go and open a spot for a person who may contribute more to and enjoy the unit. 

It is a reality of life that must be faced. 
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2013, 17:52:54 »
Have you spoken with anyone at the Royal Regiment of Canada? When I called in late August/early September they had no positions available. Also, as you may find out soon, not many Reserve units like it when someone joins and then leaves 2 years later for Reg Force. They've spent all this time training you and then usually just as you're trades qualified or a short time after, you leave. Check one of my first threads that I started, it deals with a very similar situation.

It doesn't matter if the unit likes it or not, you can put in the CT whenever you want, and unless there are some highly unique circumstances, they can't stop the CT.  As far as being Cadet and Reservist at simultaneously, you used to be able to, it was a bit of an admin headache.  Not really sure (nor do I really care) if that has changed, but really why would you want to do both?  The initial part of your reserve life is going to be training, and that will eat up a significant amount of your free time. Not to mention all the legal stuff about being subject to the QR&O's etc on CAF property, while doing cadet stuff.  Ask yourself, do you want to start becoming an adult, or do you still want to play with kids.

GW got in while I was typing.

Offline 2ndChoiceName

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2013, 17:57:01 »
Quote
Ummm?  Have you ever heard of the term "Force Generation"?  That is part of the raison d'etre of the Reserves; to provide trained soldiers for the Regular Force.  It may be a frustration, but it is a reality: Reservists join the Regular Force.  If a Reserve Unit fails to cooperate with its members, whether it be their CT to the Reg Force or even a VOT to another Trade, then that Unit is FAILING in its responsibilities.  Their members become disillusioned and demoralized, and find other options, such as RELEASE, in order to get what they want.  A FAILING GRADE for said units, and there are many.  I have no idea why they would rather keep disgruntled soldiers, rather than let them go and open a spot for a person who may contribute more to and enjoy the unit. 

I'm just repeating what many people said to me when I expressed the same desire to join the Reserves for a couple years and then go Reg Force.

Offline Tank Troll

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2013, 18:15:45 »
I don't believe you can be a Cadets and a Reservist at the same time.

AFAIK,  as long as you maintain full time student status(ie don't drop out) you can join at 16 provided you meet the requirements and there is a spot open in the unit.

Also,  you can not join while in grade 10,  you have to have grade 10 completed.  You can transfer from the Reserves to Regular Force,  but it may take awhile.  If your goal is to join Reg Force after high school,  then just do that and don't join the Reserves.

Yes you can be in cadets and reserve at the same time you just can't get paid for one while doing the other. For example you can not go on exercise as a Cadet with a reserve unit and get paid reserve pay.

Yes you can join and be in grade 10 you just have to have proof that you are maintain full time student status (school transcripts)
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MikeL

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2013, 19:04:40 »
Yes you can be in cadets and reserve at the same time you just can't get paid for one while doing the other. For example you can not go on exercise as a Cadet with a reserve unit and get paid reserve pay.

Ack, thanks for the info.

Yes you can join and be in grade 10 you just have to have proof that you are maintain full time student status (school transcripts)
When did they lower the education standards?  I was under the impression that completion of grade 10 was the minimum standard.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 19:14:14 by -Skeletor- »

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2013, 19:14:49 »
Ack, thanks for the info.
When did they lower the educational standards?  I was under the impression grade 10 completion was still the minimum standard.

The standards actually vary based on each provinces education system and how each structures their credits/grade system.  Also and it is hair splitting you can submit all the paperwork and go through the whole process while still in grade 10, you CANNOT be ENROLLED though until it is completed. 

Offline Tank Troll

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2013, 23:44:19 »
The standards actually vary based on each provinces education system and how each structures their credits/grade system.  Also and it is hair splitting you can submit all the paperwork and go through the whole process while still in grade 10, you CANNOT be ENROLLED though until it is completed. 

Don't confuse Regular Force and Reserve. Regular force must have completed Grade 10. Reserve as per my last post and you can be enrolled before you finish.
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Offline jpjohnsn

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 23:55:47 »
Yes you can be in cadets and reserve at the same time.
No, you can't.  The DAOD on enrolment into the CF was changed  over 2 years ago to say that an applicant may not be a cadet in the Canadian cadet organizations.
"Nescire autem quid ante quam natus sis acciderit, id est sempre esse puerum" - "To be ignorant of what occured before you were born is to remain always a child" - Marcus Tullius Cicero

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 04:02:23 »
Don't confuse Regular Force and Reserve. Regular force must have completed Grade 10. Reserve as per my last post and you can be enrolled before you finish.

I am not confusing anything, as I worked in recruiting. You can't be enrolled in either unless you have completed the minimum education requirements (Ref DAOD 5002-1).  What happens in the reserve world, especially in areas that offer the co-op program, is the whole process is started while the candidates are in grade 10 (so long as they are passing), but no one gets enrolled and signs any TOS until they have provided PROOF they completed the credits required.  If there are reserve units or individuals out there enrolling people before a potential recruit has provided PROOF they have met the educational requirements, they can get in big crap, and they are doing a huge disservice to that new member, as they were  irregularly enrolled and if the RC catches it (since all the enrollment documents have to return to the RC to close the files, so HRMS can get populated and the recruit can get paid), that recruit can be looking at a release. 

edit to add ref
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 07:11:55 by Hatchet Man »

Offline kratz

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 08:30:18 »
No, you can't.  The DAOD on enrolment into the CF was changed  over 2 years ago to say that an applicant may not be a cadet in the Canadian cadet organizations.

Due to so many people coming on the site searching for current answers, it's a good practice to provide a link the authority / reference that you are quoting. This backs up your assertion and makes it easier for people to accept your point of view:


ref: DAOD 5002-1, Enrolment
Quote
Membership in Cadet Organizations
On the day of enrolment, an applicant may not be a cadet in a cadet organization authorized under section 46 of the National Defence Act.
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
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Remember, this site is unofficial and privately owned. The site benefits from the presence of current members willing to answer questions.

Offline jpjohnsn

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2013, 13:46:09 »
Due to so many people coming on the site searching for current answers, it's a good practice to provide a link the authority / reference that you are quoting. This backs up your assertion and makes it easier for people to accept your point of view:


ref: DAOD 5002-1, Enrolment
Sorry :-\, I wasn't in a place where I could pull the quote at the time.  I just didn't want the cadet to walk away with the wrong info and figured that knowing a DAOD on enrolment existed, they could take some initiative and Google it until I got home and posted the complete ref. Thanks for posting it.

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Offline Zaibeee134

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2013, 15:34:18 »
Thank you everyone and its my first post so I didn't know how to post it or anything theres suppose to be no poll and yeah im still thinking If I should go to reserves and change to reg after high school or if just join reg straight after high school.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2013, 15:52:47 »
Thank you everyone and its my first post so I didn't know how to post it or anything theres suppose to be no poll and yeah im still thinking If I should go to reserves and change to reg after high school or if just join reg straight after high school.

If you want to be in the army then finish highschool and join the regular force.

Ya you don't want to wait that long, no one does.  Finish highschool, join the regs.
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Offline Zaibeee134

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2013, 14:41:40 »
I can do that, but if i finish highschool which will be in june and i heard that the infantry doesnt except till march and what am i suppose to do until march which is like 9 months. my parents wont let me stay home and do nothing, they will probably want me to go to post secondary, but if i join the reserves then a can work full time with them from july to feburary and then switch to regs near march.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2013, 14:50:07 »
Get a full time job for 9 months.

You will not find 9 months full time work with the reserves. You may find 2 months full time in the summer. From August to February you'll likely work 1 - half day a week and maybe 2 and a half days (weekend) a month.

That's if the reserves don't cancel training for a few months to save month like they did a year or two ago.

Read these forums, it takes some people well over a year to join the infantry reserves.

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Offline SeR

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2013, 14:51:06 »
If i join the reserves then a can work full time with them from july to feburary and then switch to regs near march.

First of all, the vast majority of "full time" reservists are senior NCOs and some Officers. If you join, don't expect to attend training more then one or two nights a week and every second weekend (for BMQ).

You should also take note that component transfers often take much longer than you might like. If you are interested, there are many threads on this site where you can find some more information on CTs.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 14:56:35 by SeR »

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2013, 15:11:54 »
First of all, the vast majority of "full time" reservists are senior NCOs and some Officers. If you join, don't expect to attend training more then one or two nights a week and every second weekend (for BMQ).


I don't know where you get that idea from, there are plenty of reservists working full time at the cpl/mcpl level, in fact based on the number of postings on the REO site there are more positions for the Jnr Ranks than Senior

As of this post there are
12 Pte positions
72 Cpl positions
102 MCpl positions*
117 Sgt positions * Alot of the MCpl/Sgt positions are listed under both ranks, no way to exclude it.
37 WO positions
19 MWO positions
9 CWO positions
8 2Lt positions
19 Lt positons
82 Capt positions
28 Maj positions
5 LCol positions

Math wise the the SNCO and officer ranks have a combined total that is higher than Pte/Cpl yes, but on a rank to rank level Cpl and MCpl beat most other ranks for positions available. This also doesn't include whatever short term tasking there may be available out there, which is almost always skewed in favour of pte/cpls.

Offline SeR

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2013, 15:26:23 »
Math wise the the SNCO and officer ranks have a combined total that is higher than Pte/Cpl.

Majority = most = biggest number = what you just posted

Not too many people get employed full time with the reserves before they even complete BMQ, which would be the case for the OP.

Offline DAA

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2013, 16:20:58 »
Majority = most = biggest number = what you just posted

Not too many people get employed full time with the reserves before they even complete BMQ, which would be the case for the OP.

Those numbers are nice but the question is, how many of those positions are "Temporary" and how many are "Permanent".  You will never seen anyone filling a "Permanent" position without being occupationally qualified.
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 17:10:38 »
Majority = most = biggest number = what you just posted

Not too many people get employed full time with the reserves before they even complete BMQ, which would be the case for the OP.

It's certainly not the VAST majority you implied, and broken down by rank level cpl/mcpl comes out on top over most other ranks save for Capt (as alot of the Sgt positions are also cross posted for MCpl as well).

 
Those numbers are nice but the question is, how many of those positions are "Temporary" and how many are "Permanent".  You will never seen anyone filling a "Permanent" position without being occupationally qualified.

I didn't look at posting details, but I am of the view any contract that has a set length whether it be 1 or 3 years is still temporary, regardless if the CAF calls a 3 year contract permanent (how many people in the last 2 years or so were on "permanent" contracts and got the old 30 day notice?).  And like I alluded to this doesn't include all the taskings in Monitor Mass (since I obviously don't have access to that), which from what I recall is substantially heavy on the pte/cpl ranks, and I have known a few enterprising ptes, who have managed to string enough of those together to basically be working full time before they were fully trade qualified.  There aren't many out there I reckon, but there are a few who are willing to be sent on any and every crappy GD tasking that becomes available. 

Offline SeR

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2013, 17:33:21 »
It's certainly not the VAST majority you implied, and broken down by rank level cpl/mcpl comes out on top over most other ranks save for Capt (as alot of the Sgt positions are also cross posted for MCpl as well).

According to your numbers, two out of three full time reservists are sergeants or above. I would call that the vast majority, but I guess the term could be open to interpretation.

Either way, the OP wouldn't be joining as a corporal, so these numbers shouldn't be a concern to him.

Offline Zaibeee134

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 16:57:28 »
I decided to join the ROTP in September of my last year of high school and I want to be a officer and go to RMC, NOT a civil uni and I want help on that can u guys tell me something about ROTP with RMC Saint-Jean, and when is bmq for officer with paid education. after they are done rmc or while in rmc
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 16:18:18 by Zaibeee134 »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 17:32:36 »
Your first test as a potential RMC candidate is to use the search function and find some information yourself.
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Offline peterpan

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Re: Infantry/Cadets
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2013, 09:53:35 »
Your first test as a potential RMC candidate is to use the search function and find some information yourself.

Not really! He passed his first test...to get us NCM's to do the work for him...hehehe ;D