Author Topic: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel  (Read 257215 times)

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2014, 13:02:57 »
Name of the victim now released.

R.I.P. Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent, and condolences to family, friends and all those who knew him well.

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2014, 13:32:35 »
And this from the CDS:
Quote
“Yesterday, two members of the Canadian Armed Forces were injured in a hit-and-run incident in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec. One member later died in hospital.

“Our hearts go out to the family, friends and colleagues of the member and the Canadian Armed Forces are supporting them in their time of grief. We wish our injured colleague a speedy recovery, and we offer our unwavering support to his family as he recuperates.

“The suspect fled the scene of the incident and was pursued by police. This pursuit ended in the death of the suspect. There has been speculation that this hit-and-run may have been a possible terror attack directed at our members. Police are investigating this incident and will make a determination once their investigation is concluded.

“The safety and well-being of Canadian Armed Forces members is a primary concern. Security measures are in place at every Canadian Armed Forces installation across Canada. We continually adapt these measures to meet the demands of an evolving security environment, and we will remain vigilant against possible threats.”
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Offline acen

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2014, 13:44:56 »
My sincere condolences to the family, all it takes is a few seconds to undo many years.

Unfortunately, a reactionary decision has already been handed down. Staff and students of a brigade battleschool have been ordered to wear civilian attire to and from work as well as any time in public.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2014, 13:57:36 »

Unfortunately, a reactionary decision has already been handed down. Staff and students of a brigade battleschool have been ordered to wear civilian attire to and from work as well as any time in public.
We haven't heard of this out west yet. I refuse to run scared and NOT wear a uniform I've worn for over thirty years.

Be vigilant and report as necessary.
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Offline bridges

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2014, 14:14:35 »
We did the civvy dress thing for a while during the Gulf War as well, in Ottawa at least.  Then a few years later, when I had occasion to visit a U.S. base for the first time, it was almost a relief being in such a flag-waving culture, where the uniform was seen openly & with pride.  I thus came to realize a psychological effect of having to "hide" our profession.   Personal impression only. 

Commanders should take steps necessary to ensure safety, but if that involves hiding CAF uniforms, I hope that doesn't last too long. 
"Only a person of liberal mind is entitled to exercise coercion over others in a society of free men."   -General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, GCB, CBE, DSO & Bar, MC

Offline Remius

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2014, 14:37:38 »

Not a fan of the civy dress thing either.  This might sound weird but when I'm in uniform I tend to have a higher sense of what's going on around me, who's looking at me at how I'm comporting myself.  More self awareness as it were.  Let's not give this loser (a dead one at that) any validity to what he did or that his actions will change our way of doing things.  Vigilance yes.  Decisions based on fear no. 

My concern though is that more of these closet whackos are going to try and pull off something similar.
Optio

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #56 on: October 21, 2014, 14:49:04 »
I agree with all of you however IF going home in civvies keeps my family safer I'm not going to argue.
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Offline Spimx

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #57 on: October 21, 2014, 14:53:06 »


Unfortunately, a reactionary decision has already been handed down. Staff and students of a brigade battleschool have been ordered to wear civilian attire to and from work as well as any time in public.

I am a new recruit, but im proud of my uniform, and i my oppinion not being allow to wear or uniform outside of work is losing the battle. I joined for pride and honor, and hiding my uniform is nothing more than being a coward and ashamed of the uniform.. Of course there are more things behind the policy, but thats my point of view and i just wanted to put it out there.

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Offline bridges

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #58 on: October 21, 2014, 15:12:17 »
This might sound weird but when I'm in uniform I tend to have a higher sense of what's going on around me, who's looking at me at how I'm comporting myself.  More self awareness as it were. 

That doesn't sound weird at all; I remember the same heightened awareness.

Again, sincere condolences to WO Vincent's family and friends. 
"Only a person of liberal mind is entitled to exercise coercion over others in a society of free men."   -General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, GCB, CBE, DSO & Bar, MC

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2014, 15:21:43 »


Unfortunately, a reactionary decision has already been handed down. Staff and students of a brigade battleschool have been ordered to wear civilian attire to and from work as well as any time in public.

What a shitty knee-jerk reaction. 
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #60 on: October 21, 2014, 15:28:38 »
Patrice Vincent was a member of one of our Squadrons.

I offer my condolences to his family and Squadron-mates, and take no small measure of comfort in the fact that his murderer will waste no money in R&Q and "rehabilitation". May his seventy-two virgins all be of the thirty-year-old-male-Star Trek-fan-bacon-eating-and-living-in-their-parents'-basements variety.

Following the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington, we were ordered by the CDS to wear civilian clothes to and from work. I complied. My uniform was protected by a dry-cleaning bag while I was carrying it outside.

They're cheap and plentiful.

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2014, 15:40:09 »
Unfortunately, a reactionary decision has already been handed down. Staff and students of a brigade battleschool have been ordered to wear civilian attire to and from work as well as any time in public.

This type of 'reaction' demonstrates why the low-level isolated acts gain favor with terrorist organizations. One radicalized madman sacrifices himself after killing a soldier and at least one CAF leader forces his unit into hiding.  Did one of the student's mommies call the CO or RSM to say she did not want her child to be in harm's way?  Next, all veterans with designated license plates will be recommended to order standard provincial license plates for their cars!

Rest in Peace WO!
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Offline reverse_eng

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2014, 16:02:24 »
Maybe if we closed the gates to our bases and PMQ's, and checked ID at the gates with armed MP's...

No, let's just hide in our own country and wear civvies. Wearing your uniform inside the gates only...talk about strong and proud.

I wonder if that will be normal practice by the time I get back to work...probably.

RIP WO.

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2014, 17:47:19 »
Caught CBC Radio this afternnoon and they had on a RCMP spokesman who stated that Rouleau had waited for two hours before he acted. No indications (so far) that he had been in contact with any terrorist group/individuals.

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2014, 17:58:27 »
Canada's NRA wannabes (NFA) are having a great time making jokes about banning cars on facebook  :facepalm:
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Offline DAA

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2014, 17:58:56 »
Following the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington, we were ordered by the CDS to wear civilian clothes to and from work.

We had the exact same direction back in the late 80's in Toronto due to people in uniform getting "beaten up" while using public transit.

Maybe if we closed the gates to our bases and PMQ's, and checked ID at the gates with armed MP's...

Believe it or not, this was pretty much common practice 30 years ago.  Coming back on Base, the light was RED, you had to stop and show ID before you were allowed to pass.

Next, all veterans with designated license plates will be recommended to order standard provincial license plates for their cars!

PERSEC.........  I think they are neat.  But sorry, I'm not about to "self identify".

It a sad day when we lose any member of the CF.  Condolences to the family.
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Offline Jed

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2014, 18:24:39 »
My heartfelt condolences to the families of the injured and deceased soldiers.

What a ***** move, caving in to the rare, idiot Tango wanna be, to have everyone remove their uniform in our own country. To say I am disappointed with this position taken by the CDS and the grownups would be a gross understatement.

Wake up people, you are losing the Psychological battle taking this approach.
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2014, 18:40:47 »
Caught CBC Radio this afternnoon and they had on a RCMP spokesman who stated that Rouleau had waited for two hours before he acted. No indications (so far) that he had been in contact with any terrorist group/individuals.

He was definitely inspired by ISIS and the like. His modus operandi was exactly that suggest by  Abu Khalid Al-Kanadi, a well know Canadian member of ISIS.

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2014, 18:41:34 »
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I've received some communications on this issue from my CoC, but nowhere did it state we were not to wear uniform in public. Rather it spoke to Force Protection, INFOSEC, and CyberSEC and PERSEC. To repeat, it did not speak to not wearing the uniform.

And no, I will not repost it here.
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2014, 18:55:22 »
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I've received some communications on this issue from my CoC, but nowhere did it state we were not to wear uniform in public. Rather it spoke to Force Protection, INFOSEC, and CyberSEC and PERSEC. To repeat, it did not speak to not wearing the uniform.

And no, I will not repost it here.

We have not recieved any direction like that either.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2014, 19:24:05 »
Nothing in ottawa that I've seen or heard.
Optio

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2014, 19:51:39 »
I'm hoping our serving pers aren't stuck with this stupid crap again. I flat ignored it the last two times, but I considered the type of turtle imitating government we had back then. I don't think the serving government has any of the 'head in the sand' qualities of those previous.

While there are many examples of the ill way they appear to be treating the military and veterans, they still have faith in us and aren't a bunch of surrender monkeys. The PM likes a show of force and is not afraid to spit in a bad guys eye.

On that, I'm behind him.
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2014, 20:01:38 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Mounties tried to intervene in radicalization of suspect in Quebec hit-and-run


CTVNews.ca Staff
Published Tuesday, October 21, 2014 6:28AM EDT
Last Updated Tuesday, October 21, 2014 7:29PM EDT

The RCMP say they met with the suspect in Monday’s attack on two soldiers in Quebec as recently as Oct. 9 in their ongoing attempts to de-radicalize him.

Supt. Martine Fontaine, who heads national security for the RCMP in Quebec, told a news conference Tuesday afternoon that 25-year-old Martin Rouleau was arrested in July when he attempted to leave the country, but was released because there was not enough evidence to prove he was planning to fight alongside terrorists overseas.

There was also no evidence that Rouleau was planning an attack within Canada, Fontaine said.

She said Rouleau’s passport was seized and the RCMP made contact with his family and the imam of a mosque he attended in an attempt to curb his radicalization process.

Fontaine said the RCMP hoped to exert a “positive influence” on Rouleau through the imam and family members. When police met with Rouleau on Oct. 9, he suggested that he wanted to take steps to change his life, Fontaine said.

That meeting ended on a positive note and the RCMP had no indication that an attack was being planned, she said.

But on Monday morning, less than two weeks later, Rouleau allegedly struck two members of the Canadian Armed Forces with his car in St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, about 50 kilometres southeast of Montreal. Rouleau was subsequently shot and killed by police.

The incident occurred in a strip mall parking lot around 11:30 a.m. One of the soldiers, 53-year-old Patrice Vincent, later died of his injuries, while the other soldier suffered minor injuries.

A local patrol officer witnessed the hit-and-run and gave chase as Rouleau fled in his car.

Police said Tuesday that Rouleau called 911 after the attack to claim responsibility for it.

After a four-kilometre chase, Rouleau’s car rolled into a ditch. Police said he exited the car and lunged at an officer with a knife before he was fatally shot.
 
Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney said Tuesday that the hit-and-run was “linked to terrorist ideology.”

The Department of National Defence said that Vincent, the deceased soldier, was a warrant officer and a member of the regular armed forces since 1986. He had also worked as a firefighter in a number of cities, including Halifax, Edmonton and Montreal.

RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson confirmed Tuesday that the suspect is one of 90 suspected extremists on Canadian soil that the force was monitoring. He also confirmed reports that the Mounties had seized his passport.

“He was part of our investigative efforts to try and identify those people who might commit a criminal act travelling abroad for terrorist purposes,” Paulson told reporters following an appearance at the House procedure committee.

Investigators were monitoring him, “along with other suspects,” he said.

Asked whether military personnel in the town are in danger, Paulson replied: “That’s a larger issue that will be informed by a full investigation, and we have to get on that.”

Chief of Defence Staff General Tom Lawson said in a statement that the “safety and well-being of Canadian Armed Forces members is a primary concern.
“Security measures are in place at every Canadian Armed Forces installation across Canada.”

Lawson added that the Canadian Forces “continually” adapt security measures “to meet the demands of an evolving security environment,” and will be on the lookout for potential threats.

Blaney told reporters earlier Tuesday that he is “horrified” by the incident, which he called “a terrible act of violence against our country, against our military, against our values.”

His office later confirmed that Canada has raised the domestic terror threat level in response to “general chatter” from “radical” organizations such as ISIS and al Qaeda.

“This increase is not the result of a specific threat,” a spokesperson for Blaney said.   

In a statement issued Tuesday morning, Prime Minister Stephen Harper extended his and his wife’s “deepest condolences” to the family and friends of the deceased soldier, and offered “prayers for the recovery” of the one who was injured.

“I want to express that the authorities can count on our full support in order to get to the bottom of this terrible act,” the prime minister said.

‘Radical thoughts’

The RCMP said Tuesday they began their investigation into Rouleau in June, after posts on his Facebook page suggested that he was “radicalized to the idea of travelling overseas.”

Rouleau was arrested in July when he attempted to travel to Turkey, but police did not have enough evidence to keep him in custody. Fontaine said investigators presented the evidence to the Crown, which determined that wasn’t enough to charge Rouleau with any crime.

Although Rouleau’s passport was seized, Fontaine said there was little else police could do.

“We could not arrest someone for having radical thoughts,” she said.

Fontaine said the RCMP did not continue to monitor Rouleau after their Oct. 9 meeting, but were still in contact with his family members, who had noticed “changes” in the suspect and wanted to help him.

She also said there was no indication that Rouleau was planning to use his car as a weapon.

“It would have been very difficult to prevent that … because it’s not a crime either to drive a car or be in a parking lot.”



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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2014, 21:27:55 »
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I've received some communications on this issue from my CoC, but nowhere did it state we were not to wear uniform in public. Rather it spoke to Force Protection, INFOSEC, and CyberSEC and PERSEC. To repeat, it did not speak to not wearing the uniform.

And no, I will not repost it here.

It appears from Acen's post that 1 Reserve Bridage Battle School made the decision to go in civies.

Driving off where I work in uniform or civies makes no difference.  If we hide they've won already.  IMO.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Domestic Terrorism-Public Attacks on CAF Personnel
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2014, 21:33:53 »
Quote
A local patrol officer witnessed the hit-and-run and gave chase as Rouleau fled in his car.

Police said Tuesday that Rouleau called 911 after the attack to claim responsibility for it.

After a four-kilometre chase, Rouleau’s car rolled into a ditch. Police said he exited the car and lunged at an officer with a knife before he was fatally shot.

Seems to me we can stop using the (very over-used) word "allegedly" any time now.

RIP to our fallen  :cdn:
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.