Author Topic: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package  (Read 15219 times)

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Offline S.M.A.

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An example to emulate when it comes to how to fund a naval shipbuilding program?

Defense News

Quote
Australia To Build New Naval Fleet in $65B Package
Agence France-Presse 4:14 p.m. EDT August 4, 2015

SYDNEY — Australia has announced an AUS $89 billion (US $65 billion) shipbuilding package to construct new frigates and patrol boats locally, with a decision on an international supplier for replacement submarines to be made "in coming months."

The "continuous shipbuilding" proposal, which involves the replacement of frigates, patrol boats and submarines over two decades, is expected by the government to keep up to 2,500 jobs in the sector in what Prime Minister Tony Abbott said was "a very historic announcement."

(...SNIPPED)
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Offline Dimsum

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Reply:  "If."

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 22:07:41 »
Already covered here:

http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,90990.850.html

Could the moderators please keep this thread separate? The older post above of the same article was for the Canadian context. This new thread is for the Australian shipbuilding context, which Aussie members like OTR1 might want to comment on.
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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2015, 18:41:53 »
More on the above:


Diplomat

Quote
Australia to Build Entire New Surface Warfare Fleet
Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced major investments in Australia’s shipbuilding industry.


Yesterday, the Australian government announced plans to invest more than A$89 billion (US$65 billion) in the country’s naval shipbuilding industry and to bring forward two surface warfare ship programs — the SEA 5000 Future Frigate acquisition project and the SEA 1180 Offshore Patrol Vessel program, AFP reports.

“Previous Australian governments have announced that individual ships or classes of ships will be built here in Australia,” Prime Minister Tony Abbott told local media yesterday. “What we are announcing today is basically a fleet build here in Australia, centered on [South Australia].”

The competitive evaluation program for the Future Frigate program will begin this October, with construction of the first vessel beginning in 2020 — three years earlier than expected. The Royal Australian Navy (RAN) will begin phasing out its fleet of eight Anzac-class frigates from 2024 onwards. The last Anzac-class vessel was commissioned only 11 years ago, in 2006.

(...SNIPPED)


« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 18:53:21 by S.M.A. »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 10:25:39 »
I wonder how much our National Ship Building Program process played a part in this?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 10:45:37 »
It looks like quite a similar plan doesn't it?

But the big differences that the ANZAC's are being mid-life now at about 14-15 years of service and will be phased out at 29-30 years, not 45-50 years like we will end up doing.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 12:22:08 »
And Canada?  And imagine such an independent study by a foreign organization!

Quote
Building naval warships costs 'up to 40% more in Australia than overseas'
...
Building naval warships in Australia costs 30% to 40% more than it does in comparable overseas shipyards, a government-commissioned review has found.

The government asked the US-based military research thinktank Rand Corporation to review Australia’s shipbuilding capabilities and the costs and benefits of government investment in the industry.

In a report to be released on Thursday [Aug. 6], the company noted the Department of Defence was in the early stages of its “ambitious” effort to procure up to 50 naval surface warships and submarines over the next two decades. Up to 15 of these vessels would be large surface ships such as air warfare destroyers, landing helicopter docks and future frigates.

The report’s executive summary – which has been distributed to media in advance – said 7,950 people were working in shipbuilding and submarine and ship repair last financial year. About half of those were employed by the government-owned shipbuilder ASC...
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/16/building-naval-warships-costs-up-to-40-more-in-australia-than-overseas?CMP=share_btn_tw

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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 16:17:22 »
Thank you to SMA for the shout-out!  :) I'm holidaying in Maine until send of Sept, whereupon I return to the polar tropics of Connecticut and get back to work.

Re the RAN ship plan, I can clarify a few things;

(1) The number of new frigates is nine (9). To date, the UK Type 26 is by far the preferred design. Optimised for ASW but with good point defence and LAM capability as well. Heaps of internal space for future-proofing. A number of RAN dudes have been in the UK as part of the T26 definition team, and it's all thumbs up. That, of course, does not mean the govt will accept their choice. Good God no.

(2) The number of new corvettes is currently at 12, to replace the 14 Armidale-class patrol boats. I am not aware of any preferred design. If the number is above 12 then they are likely to be follow-ons to replace the hydrography and mine warfare ships. Although, using a steel hull for mine warfare might prove something a problem.....

(3) The number of new subs requested by the RAN is eight. There is a simple reason for that, I might add. They have never - repeat, never - asked for 12, but if the govt goes for that number then.....um.........there will be some not insignificant issues ahead. They sure as hell do not want the Japanese design. I cannot emphasise that enough.

(4) The noise about the shipbuilding industry has been gathering decibels for decades. The stop/start nature of acquisition has wreaked havoc, along with putrid union bastardry and incompetent management. From my perch this looks less like a plan than a solution. It's true that building warships in Oz usually adds 30-plus per cent to the cost, but that's also the difference between building a Burke DDG in the US and Japan. It is a matter of some note that a serious strategic mentality requires indigenous manufacturing capability, even at higher cost.

(5) Re the other thread about the Canberra-class LHDs not getting F-35Bs, I have received conflicting news from extremely credible sources that it's more likely to be pushed off to detailed review. So, with that in mind, I'm waiting for the DWP for clarity. In any case, no decision re the final 28 F-35s (of 100) will be made before 2020.

(6) On a related maritime note, the four extra P-8s for the RAAF are all-but a done deal. Further, an option for another four (4) is on the cards. This would explain why the P-8 facilities being built at RAAF Edinburgh can support a fleet of 16 a/c.

(7) The date of DWP release seems to be fungible. Could be third week of August, could be Sept. We'll see.

Hopefully there's something in this of use to someone here.  :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 19:20:10 by OTR1 »

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 22:36:33 »
Bad news for BAE:

Chicago Tribune
 
Quote
BAE mulls Australia naval future as state rival handed ship deal
By Chris Jasper and Benjamin Katz, Bloomberg News

BAE Systems said it's evaluating an Australian decision to focus construction of warships worth $A40 billion ($29 billion) on a state shipyard in a move that calls into question the future of its own facility near Melbourne.

While BAE said the commitment to sustained shipbuilding with no gaps in output should foster improved productivity, plans to assemble the ships at ASC Corp.'s yard in Adelaide offer no guarantees for the British company's Williamstown site.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott said Tuesday that production of new off-shore patrol vessels and frigates will be centered on the South Australia city, "where the majority of shipbuilding infrastructure is." BAE had been negotiating for months in an effort to bring more work to Williamstown, where it's already cutting jobs after the completion of two helicopter carriers.

< Edited >

Abbott said the bulk of 2,500 jobs on the ship programs will be in South Australia, where the government is seeking to respond to concerns about the future of manufacturing in a state with the nation's highest unemployment rate. Former Defense Minister David Johnston had told parliament in November that he wouldn't trust ASC to "build a canoe."


Williamstown is continuing construction of ship blocks for three destroyers that Australia has on order, with 13 of the 21 contracted having been delivered as of June 30, London-based BAE said last month. Production will continue through the first half of 2016. The vessels are being assembled by ASC in Adelaide.

Upgrade work on eight ANZAC Class frigates that BAE built at Williamstown from the early 1990s is taking place at the company's smaller Henderson yard near Perth, Western Australia.

< Edited >

Australia has commissioned a strategic review of ASC in parallel with the re-fleeting program, which could indicate plans for the restructuring or sale of an asset that was taken under state control in 2000 and flagged for disposal in the "short term" by the National Commission of Audit in 2014.

Austal Ltd., a private naval shipbuilder based in Western Australia, wants the country's states to acknowledge that work on the new vessels should be spread across yards nationally, according to the Australian Financial Review, which cited an interview with its CEO Andrew Bellamy. Austal customers include the U.S. Navy, for which it has built littoral combat ships.

< Edited >
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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2015, 17:07:04 »
more news from Australia regarding their future fleet building program:

Defence Aerospace

Quote
Shipbuilding – Getting On with the Job
(Source: Australian Department of Defence; issued Dec 17, 2015)
Minister for Defence Senator the Hon Marise Payne today confirmed that the Competitive Evaluation Processes have now commenced for the Future Frigates and Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs).

“The Turnbull Government is committed to ensuring Australia has a strong and sustainable shipbuilding industry. We are getting on with the job,’’ Minister Payne said.

“Defence is now conducting an analysis of mature ship designs for each project.

“This approach will enable Government to better understand the options for delivery of these important ADF capabilities.”

(...SNIPPED)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 21:42:56 »
Notable updates on the Air Warfare Destroyer/Hobart class destroyers and the F-35 programs:

Channel 9 News Australia

Quote
2:28pm February 17, 2016
Defence equipment still running late
By
AAP
FTBA

Defence is lifting its acquisition game, with just one of more than two dozen major projects needing extra government funding and one at risk of failing to deliver full capability.

But defence still faces challenges at delivering on time, with just seven of the top 25 projects running to schedule and the rest running a combined 768 months late.

That's actually an improvement - 19 of 30 projects reviewed in 2013-14 were running a combined 1115 months late.

(...SNIPPED)

Quote
The exception is the $7.9 billion project to build three new air warfare destroyers, with the government announcing last year it would need an additional $1.2 billion to achieve completion.

This project is already running 34 months late.

Of the 25 projects, Defence says just the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning Joint Strike Fighter poses a risk of capability shortfall and it says that's manageable.


(...SNIPPED)


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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
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Offline S.M.A.

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Narvantia shipyards to build new supply ships for Australia
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2016, 17:12:36 »
an update to confirm what OTR1 said in another thread:

Good news for Spain's Narvantia shipyards.


Channel 9 News - (Australia)

Quote
4:26pm March 10, 2016
Spanish firm to build new navy ships
By AAP
FTBA
A Spanish shipbuilder has been chosen to build two new navy replenishment ships, the government has confirmed.

Defence Minister Marise Payne said on Thursday Navantia had been selected as the preferred tenderer to construct urgently needed replacements of replenishment vessels HMAS Success and HMAS Sirius.

(...SNIPPED)

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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline Karel Doorman

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Re: Narvantia shipyards to build new supply ships for Australia
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2016, 17:14:55 »
an update to confirm what OTR1 said in another thread:

Good news for Spain's Narvantia shipyards:

No surprise really. They are my bet to pick up the OPV order as well.

Channel 9 News - (Australia)

This was to be expected,but for the OPV i think "we"still have a fighting chance.Since there are a lot of them liking the Damen designs a lot(sea axe for example)

gr,walter
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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2016, 18:14:34 »
Preferred OPV/corvette design?

Unknown.

A nifty new vid follows, of Cantabria RAS-ing the Spanish LHD. Will soon be common sight for the RAN.

Here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTyzKBQ1rJs

I very much hope and trust the Cantabria's RCN det goes well for all.  :)

Offline S.M.A.

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DCNS offers FREMM frigates to Australia
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2016, 14:31:05 »
DCNS competing not only for the sub tender, but for the frigate tender as well:

Defense News

Quote
DCNS Targets Australian Frigate Tender
Pierre Tran, Defense News 2:13 p.m. EDT March 19, 2016
Offers FREMM Frigates for $15B Program

TOULON, France — Rand Corp., a think tank, is due to conclude a short list of competitors this month for Australia’s tender for nine frigates to replace the Anzac warship, Hervé Boy, DCNS business development manager, said March 16.

An announcement of a “short list of two or three” candidates is due later this month in Australia’s Sea 5000 Future Frigate Program, he told journalists as DCNS formally handed over the Languedoc, a Frégate MultiMission or multimission frigate, to the Organisation Conjointe de Coopération en matière d’Armement (OCCAR), the international program manager.

(...SNIPPED)

Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2016, 17:00:58 »
Further to S.M.A.: FREMM (and other Oz design competitors) noted in article as being after RCN CSC design contract too.  Note also smaller, "intermediate frigate" (sort of OPV?) possibility.

See also from November 2015:

Quote
RCN’s Canadian Surface Combatant Will be Foreign Design
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/mark-collins-rcns-canadian-surface-combatant-will-be-foreign-design

Mark
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2016, 17:54:36 »
No Mark, not an OPV.

At the indicated displacement, about 4,500 tonnes, you are looking at something that would be about the same size as the Halifax class frigate and, knowing the French, it would probably look and feel a lot like, but 25% bigger than, the La Fayette class light "stealth" frigates.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2016, 22:16:01 »
Oldgateboatdriver: What about the Italian PPAs (OPVs)?

http://www.janes.com/article/50655/italian-navy-anticipates-key-contracts-in-fleet-renewal-process

https://www.fincantieri.it/cms/data/browse/news/000640.aspx



Mark
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Yes, well the PPA are kind of  weird animals. Leave to the Italians  ;D

They are big, but they are sort of combined patrol vessel, multi-purpose light transport, other department support ships all rolled in one. However, they are not a "combatant" and carry very little in terms of armament. They are to to replace all the smaller patrol vessels of the Commandanti, Sirio and Cassiopeia class altogether. So these six vessels (though the possibility of four more has been mentioned) will replace ten patrol vessels.

This is fine because, at the same time, the Italian Navy will still have twelve very modern, recent and heavily armed destroyers and GP frigates (2 Horizonti and ten FREMMs), two aircraft carrier (Garibaldi is getting old, but it is planned to replace her with another one, likely a sister to Cavour), and the fleet revitalization also calls for the replacement of all three San Giorgio amphibious assault ships by three similar ones.

For us in Canada, or for the Australians, the  PPA would not do, as the phase of fleet replacement we will be in is for the actual GP frigates and destroyers. They have to be front line combatants, otherwise we should both become mere local coast guard.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2016, 12:20:10 »
Oldgateboatdriver--seems to me that DCNS might be suggesting a mixed buy for the RCN.  Also about the Italian vessels:

Quote
...
PPA – Multipurpose Offshore Patrol Ship

The multipurpose offshore patrol ship is a highly flexible ship with capacity to serve multiple functions ranging from patrol with sea rescue capacity to civil protection operations, and in its most highly equipped version, first line fighting vessel. There will be different configurations of combat system: a "soft" one for the patrol task integrated for self-defense ability, and a "full" one, equipped for a complete defense ability...
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/ships/2015/05/07/italy-ships-navy-fincantieri-finmeccanica-selex-multipurpose-offshore-patrol-logistic-support/70937388/

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2016, 12:24:23 »
Hello Mark:

First, I am not convinced DCNS is offering its "intermediate" frigate to Canada. The Defense News article you quoted only states that it is being offered to Australia as a substitute for the FREMM offering. I quote: "DCNS is also offering Australia its planned intermediate frigate, as the FREMM is much bigger than the Anzac, which displaces around 3,500 tons, Boy said. The intermediate warship could be around 4,200 tons, and could be extended 3, 6 or 9 meters to displace up to 4,600 tons, depending on the requirement and budget."

Now, where does this "planned" intermediate frigate come from? It's the replacement being studied in France right now for the overseas territory security and they would replace the La Fayette class and the Floreal class. The French consider these ships light general purpose vessels for low to medium risk environments. The replacements are planned to be able to face the same threat environments.

It's interesting to note the continuation of size inflation in the "entry" level blue water combat vessels currently going on about everywhere. The Floreal displace about 3,000 tons and the La Fayette's about 3,600 tons, but will both be replaced by the "intermediate" 4,500 tons DCNS design. Meanwhile, the current French navy ASW destroyers of the Georges Leygue class and AD destroyers of the Cassard class, both of approx. 4,500 tons, are being replaced by the FREMM's of about 6,000 tons. Meanwhile also, in Italy, the PPA you mentioned, at about 4,200 tons (size of an IRO), will replace three classes of patrol ships that weighed in at about 1,500 - 1,600 tons.

As for the said P.P.A., as I mentioned, they are weird animals. For one thing, they will have CODAG propulsion, something unheard of on offshore patrol vessels. It is an actual frigate/destroyer set up, and much more expansive that a diesel only power plant. But I guess it is required to achieve the electricity generation they wished to provide  from ship to shore in the disaster assistance role. So if you are going to fit a gas turbine, may as well use it for propulsion also. Besides, it gives you speeds of 32+ knots, a very Italian thing (They insist all of their ships be fast, as compared to other nation's similar classes. Its an Italian thing: looking and acting dashing is more important than results, I suppose  :)). But such speed then means that you have to build the hull with full mil-spec high tensile steel instead of the ordinary medium tensile steel used in patrol vessels and merchant ships. That is also going to increase price. So each P.P.A. will be a lot more expansive than current high end Offshore Patrol Vessels being used and built around the world.

The second thing about the P.P.A. is that it is not an "adaptable" design that lets you switch from the general purpose "light" version that is for patrols, lightly armed, and capable of variations with fitted containers for disaster relief, humanitarian missions, and so forth, to the "full" version which is armed and equipped with supplementary high end sensors for "front line" service as a capable corvette level ship. You buy one OR the other, but they can't be both, and you cannot "switch" between the two types as you go along.

For the first batch of six (and we don't know if the extra four will ever be purchased), the Italians are getting five "light" version and only one of the "full" version. They are getting that last one purely for evaluation purposes, to see IF Fincantieri's claims of usefulness as a "front line" ship is true and if they could then be purchased as cheaper replacement for the Lupo's and a couple of the Maestrale's that would then not need to be replaced by more expansive FREMM's.

The level of sensors and armament of the "full" P.P.A., however, make them less than useful for Canada's or Australia's needs. As I said, it is at the "corvette" level: The "full" version has a limited long range Anti-air sensor capability. It also has no real ASW sensor suite to speak of. The "full" P.P.A. is basically a well rounded surface warfare vessel with anti-air self-protection capability. It cannot be called a General purpose fighting ship.     

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2016, 14:34:45 »
Oldgateboatdriver: Thanks for very informative and comprehensive post--that Scuderia Ferrari complex :) :
http://ns1.mattheij.com/Pentagon/quarters/4635/library/italy_navy/navy.htm

Quote
...

Battleship Littorio (45,410 tons and 30 knots) in Taranto harbour, Summer 1942
...

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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2016, 14:10:18 »
Type 26 GCS for Australia?

Defense News

Quote
BAE, Fincantieri and Navantia ships on Australian shortlist
Nigel Pittaway, Defense News 9:21 a.m. EDT April 18, 2016


MELBOURNE, Australia — Australian Defence Minister Senator Marise Payne has announced that proposals from BAE Systems, Fincantieri and Navantia have been shortlisted for the country’s program to build nine new frigates for the Royal Australian Navy.

The BAE Systems Global Combat Ship, based on the Type 26 frigate; Fincantieri’s anti-submarine warfare FREMM (Fregata Europea Multi-Missione) and a redesigned version of Navantia’s Álvaro de Bazán (F100) class vessel are vying for the $35 billion (US $27 billion) program.

(...SNIPPED)
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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2016, 18:14:33 »
Re above, RAN and DoD desk wallahs and boffins had quite a few peeps in UK for T26 work a few years ago. All concerned, and later their bosses in Canberra, were very happy with everything. Last I heard that was still the case, but who know?

Re subs, following report from the weekend. BTW the repeated claim about US encouragement of the Soryu boats for RAN is 100 per cent b#$&!^%t. A sacked public servant named Andrew Shearer made that claim last year, and while not journo has troubled himself to actually check, it has been repeated ad nauseum. Again, it's bull.


Japanese unlikely to supply our submarines


Hamish McDonald
14 April 2016

Australia’s new submarine looks like it will be das boot. Not quite 74 years ago, three Japanese midget submarines crept into Sydney Harbour and created havoc. The odds of making it back safely out to the ocean were very low and in the end all six crewmen died. This weekend, the JS Hakuryu becomes the first Japanese submarine to arrive in Sydney since then. Its mission is salesmanship rather than attack, but the chances of success are also slim.

The word in Canberra is that the Japanese bid to get its Sōryū-class submarine, for which the Hakuryu is the demonstration model, chosen as the basic design of the Royal Australian Navy’s future submarine is likely to be rejected.

The Defence Department is understood to have completed the “competitive evaluation process” called for by former prime minister Tony Abbott a year ago after his secret “captain’s call” in favour of Sōryū boats built in Japan caused a mutiny in Coalition ranks. Its recommendation will shortly go to the national security committee of Malcolm Turnbull’s cabinet.

With intensifying expectation Turnbull will call a July election soon after the May 3 budget speech, the defence industry is bracing itself for an announcement on not only a decision that the 12 new submarines will be built in Adelaide (that’s been more or less announced already, though the evaluation is supposed to look at an overseas as well as a domestic build, in addition to hybrid options) but the selection of the foreign development partner.

The Japanese submarine seemed to have a lot going for it. The Sōryū-class is the only one of three contending models that’s already in the water. Germany’s Type-216 is a proposed enlargement of other submarines in production. The French offer is a conventional-powered version of its Shortfin Barracuda nuclear submarine.

Strong suggestions have been coming from the United States in favour of the Sōryū, because it would tighten strategic links between its two main Pacific allies, and because of worries about leakage of secrets about American combat systems and weaponry via the more export-oriented European shipbuilders. “In terms of demonology in the Pentagon, the ranking is France, Germany and Japan,” says a senior Australian figure with high-level access to US defence thinking.

Canberra is insisting the choice will be based purely on technology. And on closer study of its highly secret capabilities, the Sōryū-class has one big drawback. It’s superbly suited for lurking around North-East Asia, and diving deeper than just about any other naval submarine into ocean trenches. Yet its patrol range, about 6000 nautical miles, is less than the 9000-mile range of the RAN’s existing Collins-class, and its transit speed much slower. It would need substantial modification to install the bigger fuel load for the RAN’s requirements, and more engine power. Then there are the tasks of fitting a US combat system and array of torpedoes and missiles.

Still smarting from the experience of Adelaide’s ASC shipyard working with Spain’s Navantia on the RAN’s three air warfare destroyers − three years behind in delivery and about $1 billion over budget − the Defence Department also worries about the work-culture mix if Mitsubishi partners ASC in building the new submarines.

Increasingly, defence circles think the bid by Germany’s ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems looks the safer bet. An associated German shipyard provided the design and back-up for the RAN’s trouble-free Anzac-class frigate program. TKMS has built about 160 submarines since 1960, including 50 in the local yards of foreign navy customers, not to mention the hundreds of U-boats turned out by its predecessors in Kiel. At least the Americans won’t have to work with the French. 

Turnbull would have been able to assure his Chinese hosts in Shanghai and Beijing this week that it’s a purely technical decision, and nothing to with them throwing their weight around with Japan and other Asian friends.

It all makes Abbott’s handshake deal with Japan’s Shinzō Abe look even more reckless than it was, landing the RAN with what would have been an unsuitable submarine as well as massively contributing to the deindustrialisation of Australia, not to mention disappointing the expectations raised with Japanese friends.

That being said, the specifications of the new submarine are all about China: being able to patrol up to its coastline, and in the most dire contingency being able to lob a cruise missile into Communist Party headquarters.


Link to site here  -  https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/world/south-and-central-asia/2016/04/16/japanese-unlikely-supply-our-submarines/14607288003128
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 19:13:21 by OTR1 »

Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2016, 21:08:21 »
An update on the future frigate program:

Navy Recognition

Quote
Monday, 29 August 2016 07:04 
Navantia signs the Future Frigate Participant Services Contract for Australia's SEA 5000 Program
 
The Commonwealth of Australia and Navantia have signed an agreement for the Risk Reduction and Design Study (RRDS) Phase for the SEA 5000 Future Frigate Program. This is part of the Competitive Evaluation Process (CEP) being conducted by the Australian Department of Defence for the SEA5000 Future Frigate Program. The Commonwealth has also entered into similar agreements with each of Fincantieri and BAE Systems.

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Offline OTR1

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Re: Australia to build new naval fleet with $65 Billion Package
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2017, 20:12:17 »
The official shipbuilding plan and industrial policy was announced by the gov't the other day.

By my reading of several sources, it's pretty good. At last, an end to stop/start/stop/start production and too many yards scrambling for insufficient work to maintain critical mass.

First, a very useful vid from the gov't PR wallahs...

https://youtu.be/E8K_BXDQsqQ

Second, this from Aust. Defence Monthly magazine at http://www.australiandefence.com.au/news/long-awaited-shipbuilding-plan-released


Long awaited shipbuilding plan released


16 May 2017
Patrick Durrant
Sydney


Larger and more complex than the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Scheme and the National Broadband Network, the Government's highly anticipated Naval Shipbuilding Plan has been released today.

The Plan maps out the establishment of a national shipbuilding enterprise that will engage all States and Territories through their contributions to naval shipbuilding and sustainment of both current and future naval vessels, or as contributors to industry supply chains, or providers of national workforce development and skilling to meet the growing need for skilled naval shipbuilding workers across the sector.

It is in many ways a comprehensive response to the RAND report which made clear that the Australian naval shipbuilding industry was in a precarious and uncertain state as a consequence of underinvestment over many years. According to the report, the underinvestment had resulted in an increase in the cost of building naval ships in Australia to a figure 30–40 per cent greater than US benchmarks, and even greater against some other naval shipbuilding nations.

Major goals in the short term are the development of the new Osborne South surface ship construction facilities, considered to be one of the most time sensitive stages of the plan, with future frigates set for steel cut in 2020. The existing infrastructure is sufficient to enable the continuing block assembly of Australia’s three air warfare destroyers and is largely suitable for construction of the smaller and less complex offshore patrol vessels.

However, according to the Government, it is inadequate for high productivity construction (versus block consolidation) of major surface combatants such as the future frigate. An investment of up to $535 million is expected to start in the second half of 2017, following consideration of the detailed design and awarding of contracts. The Government also announced on 20 February 2017 that it will invest $100 million in naval related industrial infrastructure and sustainment in Western Australia from 2017 to 2020

The Government has outlined four key enablers necessary for the success of the naval shipbuilding enterprise, that will require its additional investment as well as engagement and investment from industry:

* The first of these enablers is a modern, innovative and secure naval shipbuilding and sustainment infrastructure.

* The second enabler of the naval shipbuilding enterprise is a highly capable, productive and skilled naval shipbuilding and sustainment workforce. By 2026, the industry will require over 5 200 staff employed in construction activities, and more than double that number employed in sustainment activities and in supply chain and related institutions and industries that directly and indirectly support the enterprise, on both the customer (Government) and supplier (industry) sides of the activity. Over 15 000 personnel will ultimately be directly or indirectly employed in the naval shipbuilding enterprise.

* The third enabler of the naval shipbuilding enterprise is a motivated, innovative, cost-competitive and sustainable Australian industrial base with industry at its centre.

* The final of the four enablers of the Naval Shipbuilding Plan is a national approach to its implementation.

* Other points of note that conform to earlier Defence documents, such as the 2016 Defence White Paper and the associated Integrated Investment Plan, include the option to construct a hydrographic vessel as part of the Naval Shipbuilding Plan for a strategic military survey capability, with the military survey capability to be delivered in the mid 2020s.

The life of the four current Huon Class minehunters will be extended until the early 2030s while new technologies are developed to counter the threat of maritime mines. New vessels are likely to be required at that time.

A riverine patrol capability will be re-established in the 2020s, based on a fleet of lightly armed small patrol boats to allow mobility in a wide range of riverine environments.

A new infrastructure company, Australian Naval Infrastructure Pty Ltd, will own on behalf of the Commonwealth the critical infrastructure previously held by ASC Pty Ltd, necessary to support shipbuilding and submarine programs at Osborne and Henderson, in line with the Prime Minister’s commitment that the fundamental assets of ASC remain under Commonwealth ownership.

A costed and detailed design of a modernised submarine construction facility at Osborne North for the purpose of building the DCNS Future Submarines will be presented for the Government’s consideration in 2018.

Options are also under consideration to potentially add a second floating dock to the Common User Facility at Henderson in WA with an increased capacity to handle larger vessels up to 28,000 tonnes.