Author Topic: Boyfriend in basic training started pushing me away towards the end of training?  (Read 23336 times)

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Offline CherryCherry

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Something that no one here is mentioning - immediately after the grad ceremony he won't be able to "fall into your arms" or even hold your hand while he is in uniform. I really hope everything works out for the two of you, just manage your expectations for his reaction on seeing you. Trust me, I wanted nothing more than to jump into my guy's arms when the ceremony was over ;D. And he's going to be exhausted, emotionally and physically. Grad day is a very long day for them and the culmination of everything they have been killing themselves for.

With that said, it really sounds like there is something he isn't telling you - you said it's not normal for him to not tell you things like where he's being posted. CFLRS is a different world, and Montreal can be a crazy place. I don't want to put thoughts in your head, because you really won't know until you know, and there's nothing you can do about it right now... Just try to be supportive of him however you can and however he needs you to be.

Best of luck - can't wait to read your updates!
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Offline CherryCherry

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Re: Graduation, what to expect?
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2015, 04:58:02 »
Things to expect:
  • Traffic - depending on where you are staying, if you are driving or taking a taxi, it's always smart to give yourself extra time to get to the school
  • Marching ... lots of marching
  • At least one person is going to pass out
  • Depending on how many commendations are being handed out at the same time, it might run longer than the hour
  • I mentioned in your other thread, but your guy won't be able to hug, kiss, hold your hand, etc. while he is in uniform
  • A crowded reception afterwards, maybe even a marriage proposal or two - personally, we ducked out as soon as we could to go to dinner and head back to my hotel room :nod: haha
  • A lot of happy grads
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Something that no one here is mentioning - immediately after the grad ceremony he won't be able to "fall into your arms" or even hold your hand while he is in uniform.

And why is that? 
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Offline stacey101

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Something that no one here is mentioning - immediately after the grad ceremony he won't be able to "fall into your arms" or even hold your hand while he is in uniform. I really hope everything works out for the two of you, just manage your expectations for his reaction on seeing you. Trust me, I wanted nothing more than to jump into my guy's arms when the ceremony was over ;D. And he's going to be exhausted, emotionally and physically. Grad day is a very long day for them and the culmination of everything they have been killing themselves for.

With that said, it really sounds like there is something he isn't telling you - you said it's not normal for him to not tell you things like where he's being posted. CFLRS is a different world, and Montreal can be a crazy place. I don't want to put thoughts in your head, because you really won't know until you know, and there's nothing you can do about it right now... Just try to be supportive of him however you can and however he needs you to be.

Best of luck - can't wait to read your updates!

I kinda figured the no hug/hand rule, shame :/
its hard not to put thoughts in my own head, but a couple of the hostile comments he's made the last week is making that hard. But i trust him... so im going to keep my chin up until Grad. 

He is no longer taking my support, or messaging. So over the next few weeks, i'm going in blind and expecting the worse because at this point i don't see this turning around as much as i want it too. But i'll update regardless of what happens.

Offline stacey101

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Re: Graduation, what to expect?
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2015, 15:06:16 »
Things to expect:
  • Traffic - depending on where you are staying, if you are driving or taking a taxi, it's always smart to give yourself extra time to get to the school
  • Marching ... lots of marching
  • At least one person is going to pass out
  • Depending on how many commendations are being handed out at the same time, it might run longer than the hour
  • I mentioned in your other thread, but your guy won't be able to hug, kiss, hold your hand, etc. while he is in uniform
  • A crowded reception afterwards, maybe even a marriage proposal or two - personally, we ducked out as soon as we could to go to dinner and head back to my hotel room :nod: haha
  • A lot of happy grads


At this point, im really hope we will be leaving the building still as boyfriend and girlfriend and thats if he'll want to leave with me.  Working myself up big time for this

Offline CherryCherry

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And why is that? 

from  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-1.page

DAOD 5019-1, Personal Relationships and Fraternization


4. Operating Principles
Personal Conduct


4.1 CAF members in a personal relationship shall refrain from conduct that may be considered unprofessional in a military context. For example, a CAF member while in uniform in public with another person shall not:

    a.    hold hands;
    b.    kiss, except in greeting and farewell; or
    c.    caress or embrace in a romantic manner.
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Offline Good2Golf

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from  http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5019-1.page

DAOD 5019-1, Personal Relationships and Fraternization


4. Operating Principles
Personal Conduct


4.1 CAF members in a personal relationship shall refrain from conduct that may be considered unprofessional in a military context. For example, a CAF member while in uniform in public with another person shall not:

    a.    hold hands;
    b.    kiss, except in greeting and farewell; or
    c.    caress or embrace in a romantic manner.

You forgot to set the context of DAOD 5019-1.  It refers to a personal relationship between two CAF members, or other variant of organizational/military relationship, not one between a military member and a pure civilian. [see below]

Quote
2. DEFINITIONS
...
personal relationship (relation personnelle)

An emotional, romantic, sexual or family relationship, including marriage or a common-law partnership or civil union, between two CAF members, or a CAF member and a DND employee or contractor, or member of an allied force.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 17:50:18 by Good2Golf »

Offline CherryCherry

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You forgot to set the context of DAOD 5019-1.  It refers to a personal relationship between two CAF members. [see below]


Oh I see. Maybe my guy is misunderstanding then, but he was told no PDA in uniform and I don't see any when I drop him off at dockyard every morning.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Oh I see. Maybe my guy is misunderstanding then, but he was told no PDA in uniform and I don't see any when I drop him off at dockyard every morning.

The Divisional CPO could be being some kind of stickler using oblique references to a DAOD, but 5019-1 is about internal fraternization and member-member relationships.  The common-sense approach, including other references that I don't have on had at the moment, is to apply judgement to the situation.  Today, after the local Remembrance Day ceremony, I saw numerous serving CAF members holding their spouse's hand, from junior to senior members, as they walked away from the day's ceremony.  No RSM's head was exploding, note general furrowing their brow.  If a local Commander chooses to give specific direction that CAF members under his/her command are not to have any such interaction with spouses/children, I suppose they can, but I would seriously question such a commander's priorities if they were to "go hard" on such an issue.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Oh I see. Maybe my guy is misunderstanding then, but he was told no PDA in uniform and I don't see any when I drop him off at dockyard every morning.

Morale of the story; people who aren't in the military should refrain from advising others on military regulations.

I hear all kinds of 'made up rules' that contradict actual published ones, and I give them the attention they deserve.  Common sense applies, of course, and people who ignore common sense and good, basic judgement are the ones who usually are the need for 'specific direction'.  I have, and will continue to, hold my wife's hand and kiss her good bye when I "am going out the door", even if that is at the AMU (aka for an extended duration).

I'd likely have a colorful and creative reply for anyone who felt the need to interrupt me in the middle of a good-bye in that instance.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 18:15:32 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline stacey101

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Morale of the story; people who aren't in the military should refrain from advising others on military regulations.

I hear all kinds of 'made up rules' that contradict actual published ones, and I give them the attention they deserve.  Common sense applies, of course, and people who ignore common sense and good, basic judgement are the ones who usually are the need for 'specific direction'.  I have, and will continue to, hold my wife's hand and kiss her good bye when I "am going out the door", even if that is at the AMU (aka for an extended duration).

I'd likely have a colorful and creative reply for anyone who felt the need to interrupt me in the middle of a good-bye in that instance.

Thank you for clearing that up!  I guess the 'see if he melts' test can go ahead

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Common sense applies, of course, and people who ignore common sense and good, basic judgement are the ones who usually are the need for 'specific direction'. 

This part is important.  There is also the aspect of professional conduct while in uniform/the public.  If he is uncomfortable holding your hand, etc just remember he is just finishing BMQ and may not want to 'take a chance'.

Modest, tasteful respectful PDA is okay.  Remember the common sense aspect.   :nod:

* editted for better choice WRT wording.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 18:50:54 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline stacey101

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This part is important.  There is also the aspect of professional conduct while in uniform/the public.  If he is uncomfortable holding your hand, etc just remember he is just finishing BMQ and may not want to 'take a chance'.

Modest, tasteful PDA is okay.  Remember the common sense aspect.   :nod:

Absolutely, i was always nervous just kissing him when he'd visit me at work when my job was beyond...normal LOL
just going have to take it all in after... and if.... he allows us to take him into town after.

Offline CherryCherry

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Morale (FTFY) of the story; people who aren't in the military should refrain from advising others on military regulations.

To be fair, I just grabbed the specific reg off a quick Google search to verify my point. That point being, someone above my husband told him there was no PDAs while in uniform. I realise this is the Internet, but why would I make that up?
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Offline runormal

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To be fair, I just grabbed the specific reg off a quick Google search to verify my point. That point being, someone above my husband told him there was no PDAs while in uniform. I realise this is the Internet, but why would I make that up?

For what it is worth I was told the same thing on my reserve basic. Thanks for posting this cherry otherwise I wouldn't of known.

Offline Good2Golf

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Few are questioning what someone higher told your husband; it's actually quite believable.  It remains true, however, that standing policy on the issue regarding the situation where there is but a sole CAF member in the pair, is far less prescriptive than th DAOD 5019-1 reference quoted earlier.  Without a doubt, there are 'local-isms' where interpretation of policy is taken to the extreme, something well beyond.  The point for the original poster is that, if her boyfriend is willing, she should not feel as though she couldn't hold his hand.

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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I will only add this: I have always kissed my wife good day in the car as she dropped me off at the Dockyard gate, and we were both in uniform. The world didn't end and many other seamen, including many who knew us saw this happen. Never got in trouble.

As for PDA with non military family member: Just watch TV when they show a ship returning home from a four to six month deployment or when an airplane full load of soldiers returns home from deployment.  :nod:

Offline Eye In The Sky

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To be fair, I just grabbed the specific reg off a quick Google search to verify my point. That point being, someone above my husband told him there was no PDAs while in uniform. I realise this is the Internet, but why would I make that up?

I am saying it doesn't matter, and it wasn't actually factual.  That, to me, overrides the 'fair' or other aspects you're still talking about.  You posted something as fact that simply isn't.  Is it really something that needs to be examined further?  We, or at least I, do not expect civilians (even if married to service members) to understand our regs.
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Offline Blackadder1916

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To be fair, I just grabbed the specific reg off a quick Google search to verify my point. That point being, someone above my husband told him there was no PDAs while in uniform. I realise this is the Internet, but why would I make that up?

If you are going to use a reference, use the right one.

A-DH-265-000/AG-001  Canadian Forces Dress Instructions  http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/255/251/A-DH-265-000-AG-001.pdf

Chapter 2 Section 2

2. Behaviour. Personnel in uniform shall
comport themselves in a manner which projects a
positive military appearance. Behaviour such as
chewing gum, slouching, placing hands in pockets,
smoking or eating on the street and walking hand in
hand, is forbidden
. This instruction’s objective is to
project an image of a disciplined and self-controlled
force.

But then, behaviour is likely situational.  There is a time and place for everything and military leadership is not stupid (despite examples to the contrary).  They know that family and loved ones (and soldiers) are going to demonstrate their affection in uniform.  As long as it is appropriate to time and place only the most hard-hearted superior will make it an issue.  Walking hand in hand down the street (or through the Mega) - not acceptable.  Hugging and kissing a loved one after they return from tour or after not seeing them for an extended period - acceptable.  Continuing to make-out - not acceptable.  That quick, drop off at work kiss - not only acceptable but probably mandatory.

Yes, someone more senior told your husband that there is "no PDA in uniform".  Well, instructions to new soldiers are usually in absolutes.  One, because it is easier for them to remember and follow; two, because it would take too much time to have a discussion about the nuances of military life - that only comes from experience; and three, because it would remove opportunities for instructors to make snide comments to their charges.  Close to forty years ago, following grad parade at Cornwallis, one of the members of our platoon was in a somewhat passionate embrace with a particularly attractive female.  Our section's MCpl sauntered over and interrupted them with the comment "Bloggins, what did I tell you about chewing gum or kissing in uniform".  Bloggins (who had been caught several times chewing gum) replied "don't do it in uniform, MCpl".  No, said the MCpl, what I told you was you had to have enough to share with the rest of the section.
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Drop the tangent. Back to the thread subject.

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Offline holieee

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My experience in the mega is the same that was explained already. My boyfriend and I were over the moon about each other in our honey moon phase while I was in basic. While I was in Borden, however, quite the opposite. He became cold and distant, not wanting much contact when I needed him. He was civilian, he didn't understand the things I was going through and he almost ceased contact all-together, but I pushed and pushed, effectively pushing him away. I came home and that night he broke up with me. That being said the civvie can push the other way too. Don't push, though. It's not good. Give him space and see if he chases you once he realizes you're night fighting for his attention anymore.
Your platoon mates are very in-tune to what he's going through and he may feel that he just wants to talk to them. They spend 18 hours a day awake with these people, he just might want to enjoy the time he has left with them; some people he will never see again.

As for his next posting, only the people that had hard postings knew where they were going. I didn't have trades training right after basic, so they permanently posted me until I went to borden 5 months later. I found out in week 10 of basic where I was going. Everyone else who had their next phase of training right after didn't find out until I think Grad week where they were going.

Don't fret. I know it's hard, but give him space.
What week is he in now? Perhaps I can give you a hint as to where he is in his training and the stressors he may be facing.

Offline holieee

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Re: Graduation, what to expect?
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2015, 17:39:14 »
I'm going to play devils advocate here, but if he's not even telling you about the details of his Grad, would you really want to be with a person who isn't man enough to tell you he doesn't want you to come to his grad? If he's being coy, why doesn't he just tell you he doesn't want you to come?

Are his parents going? does he talk to them at all? Do they know the details of the graduation?


After the graduates finish their parade, they march out of site to dismiss and return their Accoutrements. From there, they go back to the mega to return their rifles, this all takes time. Eventually they will form up outside the mess to walk in to see their family and friends. This is where you will be able to see him for the first time on grad day.

Also, the day before graduation, recruits are usually allowed out for a few hours to spend time with family. Has he talked about this at all?
Please don't be scared if he seems weird or distant after the fact. A huge weight is being lifted from his shoulders, finally being done. At the same time, the reality that he's done and has 'freedom' will hit him.
I found it very strange to be done basic. It all hit me too fast and everything was very surreal, I couldn't talk to my family much- I didn't even know what to say.
The magnitude of him being done, that months of hard work are over, might make him seem 'off', too.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 17:42:07 by holieee »

Offline stacey101

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My experience in the mega is the same that was explained already. My boyfriend and I were over the moon about each other in our honey moon phase while I was in basic. While I was in Borden, however, quite the opposite. He became cold and distant, not wanting much contact when I needed him. He was civilian, he didn't understand the things I was going through and he almost ceased contact all-together, but I pushed and pushed, effectively pushing him away. I came home and that night he broke up with me. That being said the civvie can push the other way too. Don't push, though. It's not good. Give him space and see if he chases you once he realizes you're night fighting for his attention anymore.
Your platoon mates are very in-tune to what he's going through and he may feel that he just wants to talk to them. They spend 18 hours a day awake with these people, he just might want to enjoy the time he has left with them; some people he will never see again.

As for his next posting, only the people that had hard postings knew where they were going. I didn't have trades training right after basic, so they permanently posted me until I went to borden 5 months later. I found out in week 10 of basic where I was going. Everyone else who had their next phase of training right after didn't find out until I think Grad week where they were going.

Don't fret. I know it's hard, but give him space.
What week is he in now? Perhaps I can give you a hint as to where he is in his training and the stressors he may be facing.

he has 1.5 weeks left. Unfortunately, I think i pushed him too far without even knowing it.
The last 2 weeks were filled with nearly hateful comments from him to me, and i just stopped 'chasing him' mid last week to give him his space. On Saturday, i logged onto facebook and thats when I found out he broke up with me. He literally did it over facebook after agreeing to talk to me in person next week, then denying that agreement ( He has never lied to me before he went to basic.... ) To say the least, I am beyond heartbroken as I never seen any of this coming, the most I keep telling myself at this point is I should never of asked him what was wrong a few weeks ago when he was acting - off.  Im still going to to his Graduation next week, a part of me is saying once he sees me he'll remember he still loves me but the other half of me is preparing for closure. 

Offline stacey101

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Re: Graduation, what to expect?
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2015, 07:28:42 »
I'm going to play devils advocate here, but if he's not even telling you about the details of his Grad, would you really want to be with a person who isn't man enough to tell you he doesn't want you to come to his grad? If he's being coy, why doesn't he just tell you he doesn't want you to come?

Are his parents going? does he talk to them at all? Do they know the details of the graduation?


After the graduates finish their parade, they march out of site to dismiss and return their Accoutrements. From there, they go back to the mega to return their rifles, this all takes time. Eventually they will form up outside the mess to walk in to see their family and friends. This is where you will be able to see him for the first time on grad day.

Also, the day before graduation, recruits are usually allowed out for a few hours to spend time with family. Has he talked about this at all?
Please don't be scared if he seems weird or distant after the fact. A huge weight is being lifted from his shoulders, finally being done. At the same time, the reality that he's done and has 'freedom' will hit him.
I found it very strange to be done basic. It all hit me too fast and everything was very surreal, I couldn't talk to my family much- I didn't even know what to say.
The magnitude of him being done, that months of hard work are over, might make him seem 'off', too.

he hardly speaks to his mom, all of 4 times - 3 calls 1 text. I use to hear from him nightly.
I spoke to him about seeing him the day before, he replied "you'd be spending it alone or with who ever you hook up with" -- these are the comments that make no sense to me, from messages telling me how much he is in love with me and missing me to hostile comments that make no sense.  He broke up with me on Saturday over.... facebook. I logged on and seen I was single.

Im still going to his graduation, a part of me wants to believe him seeing me will fix this mess but the other half is just waiting for a cold distant shoulder to throw me the rest of the way out the door.

Offline Good2Golf

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Don't beat yourself up.  Life is filled with "I could have, would have, should have...[done X...]"

No one truly knows how they'll react to a specific situation until they get there. It's even harder to try and figure out how someone else will react to a situation they've never been in before, so you shouldn't try to figure how you could have done things differently.

What you can affect is your own life, so make sure you don't do yourself a disservice by losing focus on your life, your family, and the things that will matter to you for the rest of your own life.

:2c:

G2G
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 09:33:38 by Good2Golf »