Author Topic: Replacing the Subs  (Read 35572 times)

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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #300 on: September 06, 2020, 17:25:45 »
Additionally;  when deciding on what 'caps and lims' you're willing to accept, it's often prudent to look at your potential/likely adversaries in the near/middle/distant future...

Thanks a lot for the interesting links. Don't want to dissapoint you, but it's also good to look at what our allies do. Astute, Barracuda (Suffren) or Type 212 don't have VLS fitted, even though they have been launched in the last 20 years, meaning VLS were already fitted in Los Angeles class batch II. Surprisingly, Barracuda is supossed to have only four torpedo tubes (I'd rather ask for 6 at least!).

I agree VLS are nice-to-have, but there are other assets mentioned in your pdf that IMHO are rated fist in my wish-list, I mean, a kind of compromise between wishes and affordability :
- design to allow under-ice operation
- up-to-date combat system
- anechoic coating
- habitability (something that LA class had to sacrifice)

Of course, we may have different perceptions and surely yours is better based, mine is only an amateur's one.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 17:29:04 by JMCanada »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #301 on: September 07, 2020, 10:57:57 »
Thanks a lot for the interesting links. Don't want to dissapoint you, but it's also good to look at what our allies do. Astute, Barracuda (Suffren) or Type 212 don't have VLS fitted, even though they have been launched in the last 20 years, meaning VLS were already fitted in Los Angeles class batch Flight II. Surprisingly, Barracuda is supossed to have only four torpedo tubes (I'd rather ask for 6 at least!).

WHY they don't is a good question (I don't know the answer).

Budget restraints?  Doctrine-driven decision to not include?  The RFN and PLANSF are considered to be 'stand alone naval forces' their political masters don't view as ever being part of a coalition? 

Quote
I agree VLS are nice-to-have, but there are other assets mentioned in your pdf that IMHO are rated fist in my wish-list, I mean, a kind of compromise between wishes and affordability :
- design to allow under-ice operation
- up-to-date combat system
- anechoic coating
- habitability (something that LA class had to sacrifice)

Of course, we may have different perceptions and surely yours is better based, mine is only an amateur's one.

True.  In my initial reply to your post, I was replying specifically to the "anti-surface and land attack weapons can be launched from torp tubes vs VLS with no real capability change" piece.

Personally, and regrettably, I don't think we will ever see those types of capabilities/weapons in the RCN arsenal.  We (Canada) just don't take our military seriously enough.

**  Habitability;  I've been inside our SSKs...I bet our submariners would love the luxuries that LA crews have/had.  ;D

« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:07:28 by Eye In The Sky »

Offline Karel Doorman

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Re: Replacing the Subs
« Reply #302 on: September 07, 2020, 11:25:06 »
Buying just 4-6 Astutes or Suffrens, would be nice especially to patrol the Arctic. The time for such deal is now, for UK/ France to put them in their production line. In one decade they both will end their SSN building program and start with their next generation of SSBNs.
Purchase should be "off- the-shelf" as much as possible, otherwise the cost would double and delivery would be delayed.

As for the dutch program... my opinion is that they will finally buy german, not to forget Germany has recently signed a contract with Damen for the MKS 180 frigates.
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2020/06/damen-leading-role-for-german-frigate-project-mks-180/

Finally, ... VLS look attractive, but in the end cruise missiles (as well as anti-ship ones) can also be fired from torpedo tubes. I don't see that as a great capability increase.

Hmm,could be the case(i don't think so personally), don't forget Damen is the Lead contractor in that build,but the majority/allmost all  of that budget(money)will stay in Germany.

I doubt that Germany will agree to do the same if chosen. :tsktsk:

My thoughts are that Damen/Saab are the frontrunners in this competition,also because the procurement is done the same way in Sweden as it's done in The Netherlands.(will be a big factor,IMO.)

What does that mean?

Here(and in Sweden)Defence,Technological Institutes and Businesses all work,and listen,to each other to get the best possible result(and price)it's called "De Gouden Driehoek"

Roughly translated as "the Golden Triangle" ;)

That's the reason that we allmost allways get very capable ships a lot cheaper of the cost of other classes(countries),offcourse compare class to class.

And no way Canada is going nuclear,IMO.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:30:36 by Karel Doorman »
Karel Doorman(Battle of the Java Sea)

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