Author Topic: Politics in 2017  (Read 87121 times)

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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #400 on: March 13, 2017, 13:17:43 »
I'm not trying to make excuses for the programme, but if one reads contemporary literature, it seems the consensus was that the native culture was doomed. The solution, which not recognized for what later generations would view it as, was to prepare the next generation to cope with the "white world." The above may have been kinder to the design of the residential schools programme than they deserve, but we were not the only ones trying it. The Americans also had something like it - see the Indian residential school at Carlisle, PA - and others may also have tried. Bottom line - it was a failed programme that was destructive to a way of life, and the surviving participants deserve compensation.

Offline Jed

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #401 on: March 13, 2017, 13:31:18 »
If you're comparing the land purchase to the Treaties, did your family's agreement include a clause to take care of you into perpetuity?  If it didn't, we're comparing apples and drumsticks.And were you dragged against your will, and that of your parents', to go to school?  And told not to speak the language you spoke at home - on pain of punishment "of the day"?Maybe, but even the government* apologized for the system (also attached if link doesn't work for you) - from that document:* - And this was done in 2008 -- not during a Team Red mandate.


Ok, just a question.  What other race or tribe of people in the history of the world were offered agreements that stated they would look after the displaced / conquered people cradle to grave feeding and care to the end of time?  I can't think of any off hand. Throughout history only slaves were given this type of due care and attention and we all know how that worked out.

Every human being comes into this world differently, No one is guaranteed lifelong security. The best you can hope for is the freedom to think and act on your own without oppression.
 
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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #402 on: March 13, 2017, 13:38:15 »
Ok, just a question.  What other race or tribe of people in the history of the world were offered agreements that stated they would look after the displaced / conquered people cradle to grave feeding and care to the end of time?  ...
I can't think of any offhand, either.  That said, does this negate the Treaties already in place?
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #403 on: March 13, 2017, 13:43:47 »

Ok, just a question.  What other race or tribe of people in the history of the world were offered agreements that stated they would look after the displaced / conquered people cradle to grave feeding and care to the end of time?  I can't think of any off hand. Throughout history only slaves were given this type of due care and attention and we all know how that worked out.

Every human being comes into this world differently, No one is guaranteed lifelong security. The best you can hope for is the freedom to think and act on your own without oppression.


One could argue that the residential schools program was designed to remove by force the highlighted portion.
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Offline Jed

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #404 on: March 13, 2017, 14:13:48 »
I'm not trying to make excuses for the programme, but if one reads contemporary literature, it seems the consensus was that the native culture was doomed. The solution, which not recognized for what later generations would view it as, was to prepare the next generation to cope with the "white world." The above may have been kinder to the design of the residential schools programme than they deserve, but we were not the only ones trying it. The Americans also had something like it - see the Indian residential school at Carlisle, PA - and others may also have tried. Bottom line - it was a failed programme that was destructive to a way of life, and the surviving participants deserve compensation.

Agreed.  As my old man used to say 'life is not fair as much as we may want it to be'  The justified butt hurt can not go on forever. Determine what our collective compensation is and cut loose the never ending feed tube.  There will be no peace until we are all equal in the eyes of the beholder.
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #405 on: March 13, 2017, 15:17:28 »
At one level, the Treaties and the residential school system could be seen to come from the same impulse:  one group thinking they can improve the lot of a minority, or "take care" of them.  And I can guess what some folks around these parts would have to say about, say, the current government coming up with a "let's take care of group x" scheme  ;)
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #406 on: March 13, 2017, 19:59:19 »
Quote
And were you dragged against your will, and that of your parents', to go to school?  And told not to speak the language you spoke at home - on pain of punishment "of the day"?

Aye.  I wuz. I wuz aye bein telt that I wuznae speaking richt and that only Scots fowks spelt learnt the roads that I learnt it.  And d'ye ken whut?  When I wuz doon in London, mah school mates were telt exactly the same thing aboot speaking "common".

Admittedly my parents weren't objecting ower much.  They just got a good chuckle out of the efforts to speak "proper" English.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #407 on: March 13, 2017, 20:01:41 »
I can't think of any offhand, either.  That said, does this negate the Treaties already in place?

No.  It doesn't negate the treaties already in place.  Regardless of which side is uncomfortable with the situation and wants to renegotiate.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #408 on: March 13, 2017, 20:03:27 »
At one level, the Treaties and the residential school system could be seen to come from the same impulse:  one group thinking they can improve the lot of a minority, or "take care" of them.  And I can guess what some folks around these parts would have to say about, say, the current government coming up with a "let's take care of group x" scheme  ;)

Paternalism and equality of outcomes or Liberty and equality of opportunity.
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #409 on: March 13, 2017, 20:22:34 »
Paternalism and equality of outcomes or Liberty and equality of opportunity.
:nod:  Pick your poison ...
No.  It doesn't negate the treaties already in place.  Regardless of which side is uncomfortable with the situation and wants to renegotiate.
Well put - and that's a two-sided coin, as well.
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #410 on: March 13, 2017, 21:07:35 »
How many Mics and Macs here in Canada are only Canadians as a result of very similar actions by the land barons of Scotland and Ireland?  The history of the Orkneys is also very much one of forced moves and mandated language training.  Why, for a while even the kilt was flatly forbidden so native Americans do not have an exclusive complaint.  You cannot re-write the past and make it better and you are better off not to try.  What is happening and has happening for a long time is a few opportunists are cashing in by creating a public relations nightmare for government.

The end result is potentially as damaging as the schools were.  People who are dependent upon the largess of others as many of these groups are suffer from poor self-esteem, have little personal motivation and end up with alcohol and drug dependencies.  Families suffer from abuse and neglect and the incidence of personal crime increases.  These are problems that our nanny attitude has created and throwing cash at them out of guilt is not the answer.  They truly cannot live in a white man's world because we pay them too much for them to have to.  And those are the key words.  HAVE TO.  Take away the cheques and the handouts and assist in establishing industry, markets for their products and pride in their accomplishments.  My two cents

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #411 on: March 13, 2017, 21:13:18 »
How many Mics and Macs here in Canada are only Canadians as a result of very similar actions by the land barons of Scotland and Ireland?  The history of the Orkneys is also very much one of forced moves and mandated language training.  Why, for a while even the kilt was flatly forbidden so native Americans do not have an exclusive complaint.  You cannot re-write the past and make it better and you are better off not to try.  What is happening and has happening for a long time is a few opportunists are cashing in by creating a public relations nightmare for government.

The end result is potentially as damaging as the schools were.  People who are dependent upon the largess of others as many of these groups are suffer from poor self-esteem, have little personal motivation and end up with alcohol and drug dependencies.  Families suffer from abuse and neglect and the incidence of personal crime increases.  These are problems that our nanny attitude has created and throwing cash at them out of guilt is not the answer.  They truly cannot live in a white man's world because we pay them too much for them to have to.  And those are the key words.  HAVE TO.  Take away the cheques and the handouts and assist in establishing industry, markets for their products and pride in their accomplishments.  My two cents

The reason the American's have their Second Amendment is because the Highlanders under the Hanoverians and the Borderers under the Stewarts were both denied the right to bear arms unless they were pledged to the King.  This saw MacDonalds massacred in Glencoe and Grahams nailed to their burning doors at the hands of the Government during pacifications.

Stuff happens.  The way I see it it was an even match when the Grahams met the folks that ate the hearts of French missionaries.  It was a right good match.  But that game is over.
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #412 on: March 13, 2017, 21:37:16 »

Stuff happens.  The way I see it it was an even match when the Grahams met the folks that ate the hearts of French missionaries.  It was a right good match.  But that game is over.

Your final words say it all.  The game is over.  Now let's enter the future.

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #413 on: March 13, 2017, 22:40:13 »
I'm considering taking Rome to the international courts for restitution for the Roman occupation. Of particular note is the destruction of our religion by Suetonius in 52 AD and the forced Romanization of the indigenous peoples of Britain. The Welsh side of the family never did cave in to them, but one case at a time  ;)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 17:14:55 by Kat Stevens »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Online mariomike

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #414 on: March 15, 2017, 08:47:08 »
If this has been posted elsewhere, Mods, please move or delete this, but ...

CBC News is reporting that Pat Stogran is considering a run for the NDP leadership.

"At the moment, he isn't a member of the NDP," the article says ...  ""It is a "huge handicap," Stogran said. "But I believe it's where I belong because their heart is the right place.""

See also,

Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid 
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,125376.msg1480230/topicseen.html
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Online tomahawk6

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #415 on: March 20, 2017, 12:01:50 »
A large slice of the Canadian public want illegal border crossers deported.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-almost-half-canadians-want-illegal-border-crossers-101048596.html

WINNIPEG, Manitoba/OTTAWA (Reuters) - Nearly half of Canadians want to deport people who are illegally crossing into Canada from the United States, and a similar number disapprove of how Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is handling the influx, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll released on Monday.

A significant minority, four out of 10 respondents, said the border crossers could make Canada "less safe," underlining the potential political risk for Trudeau's Liberal government.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #416 on: March 20, 2017, 12:06:21 »
Those people don't understand Canadian or international law - not really surprising.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #417 on: March 20, 2017, 13:03:53 »
God, jmt!  I remain in continuing awe of your generally amazing superiority. 

I genuflect.  I genuflect. I genuflect.   [:D
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #418 on: March 20, 2017, 13:20:25 »
Those people don't understand Canadian or international law - not really surprising.

The interesting thing about law is that it can be changed. The law must balance between protecting the minority's rights while following the constitution (although I believe the constitution as a whole only covers Canadian citizens, with non-citizens being granted the rights laid out in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) while ensuring that the majority's will is respected (as per democracy(.

Your absoluteness on every subject must be a real conversation starter at parties.

Offline YZT580

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #419 on: March 20, 2017, 13:38:38 »
illegals are just that: illegal.  And as such, they are criminals who are openly defying Canadian law.  Some argument can be made for ensuring that they are not forced to return to a country where their lives are in jeopardy (that is called an extenuating circumstance) but for those whose only reason for being here is a fatter paycheck those rules don't, and should never apply. Instead they should be prosecuted under the law and sent back with the requirement to remit to the Canadian government the costs of housing, feeding and ensuring their safety until such time as they are escorted onto the first available aircraft.(for which they should also pay)

Offline Flavus101

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #420 on: March 20, 2017, 13:43:11 »
illegals are just that: illegal.  And as such, they are criminals who are openly defying Canadian law.  Some argument can be made for ensuring that they are not forced to return to a country where their lives are in jeopardy (that is called an extenuating circumstance) but for those whose only reason for being here is a fatter paycheck those rules don't, and should never apply. Instead they should be prosecuted under the law and sent back with the requirement to remit to the Canadian government the costs of housing, feeding and ensuring their safety until such time as they are escorted onto the first available aircraft.(for which they should also pay)

While I agree with most of what you are saying I do not believe that you will ever see a cent from most illegals. In general I think that most have already spent their savings on arriving to Canada, as such a program that seeks to collect compensation would simply be a waste of taxpayer money.  :P

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #421 on: March 20, 2017, 13:44:10 »
Those people don't understand Canadian or international law - not really surprising.

Or they do and they disagree with it.  Thus they have expressed their democratic rights, of expression, as protected by Canadian law.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #422 on: March 20, 2017, 13:51:51 »
"Some 48 percent said ... Canada should 'send these migrants back to the U.S.' Another 36 percent said Canada should 'accept these migrants'." 
"The poll has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of 4 percentage points."
I'll let you do the math yourself on what that does to your percentages, so that no one thinks I'm being condescending (that means I talk down to people).

Quote
....a similar number disapprove of how Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is handling the influx...
Yes, that's from BOTH SIDES:  "He is questioned about it every time he appears in parliament, from opponents on the left, who want more asylum-seekers to be allowed in, and critics on the right, who say the migrants pose a potential security risk."


Quote
....underlining the potential political risk for Trudeau's Liberal government.
Quote
Trudeau faces no immediate threat, since the next elections are not until 2019.
Wow, contradictory alt-facts within the same article;  maybe one of your intellectual giants, Spicer or Conway, helped write this.


While I'm still not a fan of PM JT, forgive me if a dubious Yahoo news article doesn't have me clamouring to build walls or Twatting about how "This Hour has 22 Minutes" is hurting supposed-politicians' feelings.
       ::)


Offline milnews.ca

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #423 on: March 20, 2017, 15:47:46 »
I'm considering taking Rome to the international courts for restitution for the Roman occupation.
If you've got a contract signed by a Roman leader saying they'd take care of your descendants as long as the Tiber flows and the sun shines, have at 'er  ;D
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #424 on: March 20, 2017, 17:09:39 »
If you've got a contract signed by a Roman leader saying they'd take care of your descendants as long as the Tiber flows and the sun shines, have at 'er  ;D

Wrong angle.  Pain and suffering and failure to keep the Scots out.
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