Author Topic: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight  (Read 323799 times)

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Offline FSTO

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #975 on: June 09, 2019, 16:59:07 »
You’re mistaken sir. Best Coast and Sandy Bottom are the same locations. 😊

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #976 on: June 09, 2019, 17:08:38 »
You’re mistaken sir. Best Coast and Sandy Bottom are the same locations. 😊

I'l disagree, but allow you have own thoughts on the topic.  :nod:
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Offline Old Sweat

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Vadm Norman to retire.
« Reply #977 on: June 26, 2019, 14:56:12 »
The following story is reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman to retire from the military
JANICE DICKSON
OTTAWA
PUBLISHED JUNE 26, 2019
UPDATED 3 MINUTES AGO
 0 COMMENTS
Vice-Admiral Mark Norman says he will retire from the Canadian Armed Forces.

A joint statement from Vice-Adm. Norman and the Department of National Defence says lawyers for both the Canadian government and the military officer have concluded conversations that have resulted in a mutually accepted agreement, and that the senior naval officer has decided not to return to his former post.

“Vice-Admiral Norman remains committed to the Navy, the Canadian Armed Forces and their mission. However, after consulting with his family, his chain of command, and his counsel, Vice-Adm. Norman has decided to retire from the Canadian Armed Forces,” says the statement issued from the department.

“Both parties believe that this resolution will return focus to the critical work of the Canadian Forces, which is the protection of all Canadians.”

The federal government thanked Vice-Adm. Norman for his 38 years of service.

The decision comes over one month after a grueling legal battle ended for Vice-Adm. Norman.

Vice-Adm. Norman was suspended as the military’s second-in-command on Jan. 16, 2017, and charged last year with a single count of breach of trust. That charge was later dropped. The Crown prosecutor said new information provided by his defence team prompted the decision in early May to stay the charge. Federal prosecutor Barbara Mercier told court in May that there was no longer a reasonable prospect of conviction.

The Globe and Mail has reported that the Prime Minister was frustrated and angry that a cabinet decision to delay a navy supply ship contract had been leaked to a CBC reporter in late 2015. Sources said that triggered the Privy Council Office to call in the Mounties, which eventually led to the charge against Vice-Adm. Norman.

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Re: Vadm Norman to retire.
« Reply #978 on: June 26, 2019, 15:11:42 »
A joint statement from Vice-Adm. Norman and the Department of National Defence says lawyers for both the Canadian government and the military officer have concluded conversations that have resulted in a mutually accepted agreement, and that the senior naval officer has decided not to return to his former post.

I can only hope that his lawyer was able to get a reasonable amount of true justice for the Vice-Adm.

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Re: Vadm Norman to retire.
« Reply #979 on: June 26, 2019, 15:51:09 »
A joint statement from Vice-Adm. Norman and the Department of National Defence ….
Here it is straight from the info-machine ...
Quote
With the assistance of the Honourable Warren Winkler, former Chief Justice of the Ontario Court of Appeal, counsel for both the Government of Canada and VAdm Mark Norman have concluded discussions, held in good faith, which have resulted in a mutually acceptable agreement, the details of which will remain confidential.

Vice Admiral Norman remains committed to the Navy, the Canadian Armed Forces and their mission. However, after consulting with his family, his chain of command, and his counsel, VAdm Norman has decided to retire from the Canadian Armed Forces.

Both parties believe that this resolution will return focus to the critical work of the Canadian Forces, which is the protection of all Canadians.

The Government of Canada thanks VAdm Norman for his 38 years of dedicated service, and wishes him well in all of his future endeavours.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #980 on: June 26, 2019, 17:09:03 »
His deck will be cleared for action if he wishes to enter politics and run in October.

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #981 on: June 26, 2019, 17:16:00 »
His deck will be cleared for action if he wishes to enter politics and run in October.
I wonder if part of his secret "mutually accepted agreement" included not running for political office.

Either way looks like the real bad guys get off the hook.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #982 on: June 26, 2019, 17:44:32 »
It's over and done, without so much as a whimper. The story is finished.
Move along. Nothing to see here. Speculation is futile.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #983 on: June 26, 2019, 19:03:48 »
First of all, I have had the pleasure of meeting justice Winkler and therefore, fully trust that his mediation is quite certain to have resulted in a fair deal for all parties. I don't think that would include an agreement to "not enter" politics, as such agreement would be unconstitutional and in any event, beyond the purview of such agreements.

As for Mark: If you are reading through these fora, I say to tou:"Fair winds and a following sea", or as they say in Newfoundland: "May your big gib draw".

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Re: Vadm Norman to retire.
« Reply #984 on: June 26, 2019, 19:30:22 »
A joint statement from Vice-Adm. Norman and the Department of National Defence says lawyers for both the Canadian government and the military officer have concluded conversations that have resulted in a mutually accepted agreement, and that the senior naval officer has decided not to return to his former post.

I can only hope that his lawyer was able to get a reasonable amount of true justice for the Vice-Adm.

I wonder if he got as much as Khadr?

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #985 on: June 26, 2019, 19:37:57 »
The settlement money was spent out of public money, approved through some mechanism that is authorized by legislation and by someone, under that legislation, with authority to do so, either at TB or the MND (if he had authority). The other details of the sentence aside, I'm curious to know how an amount like this would not be public info if an ATI were submitted.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #986 on: June 26, 2019, 19:40:40 »
The settlement money was spent out of public money, approved through some mechanism that is authorized by legislation and by someone, under that legislation, with authority to do so, either at TB or the MND (if he had authority). The other details of the sentence aside, I'm curious to know how an amount like this would not be public info if an ATI were submitted.

Cabinet confidence!

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #987 on: June 26, 2019, 19:48:14 »
Cabinet confidence!

 :whistle:

Could that actually be possible? Seems like beyond a slippery slope to me that Cabinet could just simply declare any expense they want as a secret.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #988 on: June 26, 2019, 19:52:34 »
My understanding is that Justice holds funding for the GoC to settle such actions; gross amounts paid annually are presumably reported through annual reports to government, but the breakdown of $50 to Norman, $125 000 to FJAG etc would not be provided.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #989 on: June 26, 2019, 20:09:41 »
My understanding is that Justice holds funding for the GoC to settle such actions; gross amounts paid annually are presumably reported through annual reports to government, but the breakdown of $50 to Norman, $125 000 to FJAG etc would not be provided.

Listening to Tim Powers on Power and Politics, he says this will be on the public accounts as a discretionary expense somewhere... and that a savvy person can probably drill it down to see the changes in the books. He's not wrong, the government uses accrual accounting and so as soon as this agreement is made, it goes on the books immediately as an expense and an accounts payable. So a review of the public accounts for 26 Jul, for example, might show a "discretionary expense" and corresponding accounts payable for $X,000,000.

Of course, that's if it doesn't get out before then... he was surprised the secret has lasted three hours already.

So sure, maybe an ATI for "How much was VAdm Norman's settlement" might be somehow protected but reviewing the books, you will see it there on the ledger somewhere, even as a vaguely labelled expense.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #990 on: June 26, 2019, 20:14:38 »
A quick google found a 2015 story about 2014-15's $575M in settlements.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/lawsuit-settlements-cost-federal-government-more-than-575m-in-2015
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This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #992 on: June 26, 2019, 20:33:09 »
Right, so if that's published every year then it should be pretty easy to pinpoint.... start there the "name withheld" amounts under DND and then hit the ledgers to find the dates they were paid, and then decide which one makes sense with the amount and date. His legal bills were going to be paid, so it's not like they could leverage financial hardship to buy his silence... I'd be shocked if it was below 7 figures.
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #993 on: June 26, 2019, 20:40:35 »
Just rumbling through Google and on civy street "compensation for wrongful dismissal" can often be one years salary. Not sure how applicable that would be to this situation? What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #994 on: June 26, 2019, 20:47:10 »
I think that is fairly low for the VCDS.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #995 on: June 26, 2019, 20:54:08 »
Current VAdm / LGen pay scale, monthly rates.

Lieutenant-General
20683   21244   21833   22392
(TB, 30 May 2019, effective 1 April 2018)

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/pay/officers.html#lieutenantgeneral

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #997 on: June 26, 2019, 21:04:35 »
. . . What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

That's what LCols make.  For a three star - double the above amount and add 18 grand.  And even then he's making less than some Medical Officer Majors.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #998 on: June 26, 2019, 21:16:06 »
. . .  or as they say in Newfoundland: "May your big gib draw".

You know, I've never said that even once, but if I had to in order to prove I was a Newf, I'd use "jib" correctly.
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Re: VAdm Norman - Supply Ship contract: Legal fight
« Reply #999 on: June 26, 2019, 22:01:39 »
Just rumbling through Google and on civy street "compensation for wrongful dismissal" can often be one years salary. Not sure how applicable that would be to this situation? What's a Vice Admiral's annual salary..... $125000 range?

The calculation is much more complicated than that and depends very much on the terms of the contract of employment, length of service, opportunity to find a replacement income and other factors. The more senior the employee the more complex the calculation.

If there is any general rule of thumb it's one month of salary and benefits for every year of service which would equate to roughly three years compensation for him but I'm not sure how close he was to CRA as that would be a limiting factor.

Don't forget that there is also a the fact that he was treated shabbily, put through extreme mental pressure and his reputation dragged through the dirt. That would up the settlement significantly.

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