Author Topic: May 2017 Manchester UK bombing (split fm Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition)  (Read 6984 times)

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Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Sadly the public's outlook on this issue will be determined by celebrity statements.

As long as the celebrities take on the role of useful idiots, the sheep will follow. 

However, if the celebrities start to get upset and start tweeting the Hadiths that are used to justify the attacks, I think you'll see a quick turn in public sentiment that will be focused on protection of the majority, and the politicians who have misrepresented the threat will take a heavy hit....


 :salute:

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Offline Colin P

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Yes, because it was the Democrats that leaked Israeli intelligence to the Russian Ambassador.

It was shared, the source was not, but the source was leaked by someone. I suspect various bits are going to be leaked to different people to determine who is leaking.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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I think we also need acknowledge that there are certain absolutes in life. 

For instance:

1.  There will always be terrorists
2.  There will always be conflict in some form
3.  There will always be a certain level of violence in society

To try and eradicate the above is futile because if they were changeable, they wouldn't be absolutes.  This doesn't mean we don't try to minimize them to the greatest extent possible; however, we need to accept that the above will always happen and we should not fundamentally alter our way of life because of them.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 11:31:05 by Humphrey Bogart »

Offline jollyjacktar

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The real shadow shadow folks are not fettered about actually.  You're mistaking gunslingers like SOF for actual real shadow folks like CIA Special Activities Division, Force Research Unit (now known as Joint Support Group), MI6 SIS, RCMP Covert Operations Branch, etc. 

Google any of those organizations and you will find very little information and the info that is available is limited.  SOF is sexy; therefore, it naturally draws attention which is good because we want the bad guys to know we have big strong mean people that will come get them in their sleep.  The work that leads up those Direct Actions though isn't sexy at all, it's incredibly time consuming and resource intensive and requires highly skilled individuals.  Not skilled in the military sense though, military types generally make terrible intelligence operatives because they are way too institutionalized, too clean cut, too physically fit.  In other words, you can spot them a mile away.

In a lot of ways its counter productive to surge soldiers on to the streets because it breaks up pattern of life and tampers with the atmospherics in the area of operations.  Any insurgent cells that are/were still active will adjust their TTPs accordingly and this has the potential to disrupt actual intelligence gathering initiatives.  This is something that is best handled by Police Forces, they are far better than the Mlitary is at this sort of thing.

No, I am certainly not mistaking whom I mean by the shadow folks.  I mean the folks that are hunting the shitheads for signs of activities and identification (that includes LE), so that other organs can take action.  During my time in law enforcement the added red tape that was added onto how and when and why we could do things grew more and more cumbersome.  I used to have occasional interaction with someone from that world, they had their red tape constrictions as well.  I don't expect that things have loosened off since then for anyone too much.  The rules usually favour the criminal or in this case terrorists and not society. 

milnews, no, I'm not angry per se.  Frustrated to some degree, I suppose perhaps even tired and disheartened.  I believe we are half hearted in our fight of this war for our future, too timid and cowed by those who rule the day with political correctness and our high moral ground mentality trumping all.  I believe we are going to become fixed in place on our high moral ground one day down the road and bayonetted by the enemy when they overrun our position. 

I watched an interview with a former SAS member today.  He, too, is disgusted that known folks are walking the street and able to make these strikes.  He said once they're identified, they should be taken off the street permanently and immediately, either by incarceration or deportation.  I understand how he feels.  As for how would I feel if I was picked off the streets by error.  I have more faith in those who are watching that they're not going to pluck me unless I am up to no good.  Should I ever become someone who is plotting murder and mayhem like that, then should I be found out, any misfortune that befell me would be richly deserved. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 13:32:31 by jollyjacktar »
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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I think we also need acknowledge that there are certain absolutes in life. 

For instance:

1.  There will always be terrorists
2.  There will always be conflict in some form
3.  There will always be a certain level of violence in society

To try and eradicate the above is futile because if they were changeable, they wouldn't be absolutes.  This doesn't mean we don't try to minimize them to the greatest extent possible; however, we need to accept that the above will always happen and we should not fundamentally alter our way of life because of them.

Un-PC clarification:  If Europe did not have a Muslim minority, by what % would terrorist attacks/deaths have been reduced there over last 5-year period? 

Broad generalizations like you've made are not going to cut it if these barbarians, all from the same demographic group, keep attacking like they did in Nice, Manchester, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, etc.

Especially as more innocents are killed and maimed, and those losses become more personal, the value of unconditional tolerance will become a much more uncomfortable conversation for everyone, as no one likes where those conversations lead.


 :salute:
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Un-PC clarification:  If Europe did not have a Muslim minority, by what % would terrorist attacks/deaths have been reduced there over last 5-year period? 

Broad generalizations like you've made are not going to cut it if these barbarians, all from the same demographic group, keep attacking like they did in Nice, Manchester, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, etc.

Especially as more innocents are killed and maimed, and those losses become more personal, the value of unconditional tolerance will become a much more uncomfortable conversation for everyone, as no one likes where those conversations lead.


 :salute:

Killing/ purging/ interning all the Irish 'troublemakers', a fairly distinct ethnic group relatively easy to identify and single out, wouldn't have solved that particular terrorist problem either. That approach was tried a couple of times and didn't turn out so well for anyone, remember?

Smarter solutions are required to trickier problems, which is why (I have finally had to admit) people like me are probably not going to be at the forefront of the solution making :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline jollyjacktar

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At least the IRA were logical, rational men who just wanted you to leave their turf and not sub-human barbarians. They didn't want to take you over by force, force you to submit to and adopt their beliefs on your knees and then still maybe set you on fire or cut your head off just because, afterwards.  These ****s want us all to fall forever.  Period.  How do you change that attitude without force?  Wouldn't work 70 years ago for my dad's generation and I seriously doubt it will today or tomorrow either.
I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Haggis

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Comparing the IRA and ISIS is like apples and bricks.

The IRA, though Catholic,  were politically driven and, therefore, open to an eventual political solution to their demands.  ISIS are purely religiously driven and, therefore, far les open to any solution that clashes with their ideology as it comes from a higher power than politics.  Also, they are pure and wholly, completely committed to their belief that their cause and, by extension, the means by which they achieve their goal of a worldwide fundamentalist ISIS interpreted Islamic caliphate are just, even if other Muslims must die as a result alongside the kaffirs.

The western world's commitment to crushing ISIS and it's descendants is far, far less fervent and pure than ISIS's commitment to killing as many apostates and non-believers as they can to bring about the Apocalypse they believe will result in the pure and righteous Islamic caliphate rising from it's ashes.

We toss a few Tomahawk missiles at them, kill off their mid level commanders with SOF operations and cut off their legitimate sources of income.  But it doesn't change their way of life. For the west, however, one suicide bomber at a concert or in a mall, one shoe bomber on a plane, one mass shooting, and a host of other real and perceived threats that would scare the public out of their collective wits if known, and our way of life is forever altered.

Think I'm wrong?  Try getting on an airplane the same way you did 40 years ago.  Take photos of the Parliament buildings.  Linger too long in a train station.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Lumber

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Un-PC clarification:  If Europe did not have a Muslim minority, by what % would terrorist attacks/deaths have been reduced there over last 5-year period? 

Broad generalizations like you've made are not going to cut it if these barbarians, all from the same demographic group, keep attacking like they did in Nice, Manchester, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, etc.

Especially as more innocents are killed and maimed, and those losses become more personal, the value of unconditional tolerance will become a much more uncomfortable conversation for everyone, as no one likes where those conversations lead.


 :salute:

I'm going to go out on a limb here.

Posit 1: Terrorism is fueled by globalization: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_earthling/features/2002/a_real_war_onterrorism/does_globalization_cause_terrorism_or_cure_it.html

Posit 2: Globalization reduced wars between state powers: http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=457

Posit 3: Deaths due to wars between state powers far outweigh deaths by terrorism: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/americans-are-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/

Conclusion: Fret not, the future is bright. We might have a bomb go off here or there, but overall, you're less likely to die today than you were 70 years ago.


"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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No, I am certainly not mistaking whom I mean by the shadow folks.  I mean the folks that are hunting the shitheads for signs of activities and identification (that includes LE), so that other organs can take action.  During my time in law enforcement the added red tape that was added onto how and when and why we could do things grew more and more cumbersome.  I used to have occasional interaction with someone from that world, they had their red tape constrictions as well.  I don't expect that things have loosened off since then for anyone too much.  The rules usually favour the criminal or in this case terrorists and not society. 

milnews, no, I'm not angry per se.  Frustrated to some degree, I suppose perhaps even tired and disheartened.  I believe we are half hearted in our fight of this war for our future, too timid and cowed by those who rule the day with political correctness and our high moral ground mentality trumping all.  I believe we are going to become fixed in place on our high moral ground one day down the road and bayonetted by the enemy when they overrun our position. 

I watched an interview with a former SAS member today.  He, too, is disgusted that known folks are walking the street and able to make these strikes.  He said once they're identified, they should be taken off the street permanently and immediately, either by incarceration or deportation.  I understand how he feels.  As for how would I feel if I was picked off the streets by error.  I have more faith in those who are watching that they're not going to pluck me unless I am up to no good.  Should I ever become someone who is plotting murder and mayhem like that, then should I be found out, any misfortune that befell me would be richly deserved.

The red tape exists for the bit highlighted in yellow.  Lets take Northern Ireland as an example.  The British Military and Intelligence Community has been receiving all sorts of flak for crap they pulled during the Troubles, etc.  False flag attacks, assassinations, shooting RUC Officers, the list goes on and on. 

One of the reasons for the creation of CSIS was as a result of illegal activity conducted by the RCMP Directorate of Security and Intelligence/Security Service.  We need to be very careful giving Law Enforcement Agencies broad powers as it could have unintended consequences.


Un-PC clarification:  If Europe did not have a Muslim minority, by what % would terrorist attacks/deaths have been reduced there over last 5-year period? 

Broad generalizations like you've made are not going to cut it if these barbarians, all from the same demographic group, keep attacking like they did in Nice, Manchester, Paris, Brussels, Berlin, etc.

Especially as more innocents are killed and maimed, and those losses become more personal, the value of unconditional tolerance will become a much more uncomfortable conversation for everyone, as no one likes where those conversations lead.


 :salute:


They aren't broad generalizations, they are facts.  Western Europe is probably safer than it's ever been in Human History.  Citizens have a far less chance of meeting a violent death than they ever have in spite of the media sensationalism.  This isn't even the most violent terrorist period in Europe, the 1970s to 1990s were far more violent.

 

Comparing the IRA and ISIS is like apples and bricks.

The IRA, though Catholic,  were politically driven and, therefore, open to an eventual political solution to their demandsISIS are purely religiously driven and, therefore, far les open to any solution that clashes with their ideology as it comes from a higher power than politics.  Also, they are pure and wholly, completely committed to their belief that their cause and, by extension, the means by which they achieve their goal of a worldwide fundamentalist ISIS interpreted Islamic caliphate are just, even if other Muslims must die as a result alongside the kaffirs.

The western world's commitment to crushing ISIS and it's descendants is far, far less fervent and pure than ISIS's commitment to killing as many apostates and non-believers as they can to bring about the Apocalypse they believe will result in the pure and righteous Islamic caliphate rising from it's ashes.

We toss a few Tomahawk missiles at them, kill off their mid level commanders with SOF operations and cut off their legitimate sources of income.  But it doesn't change their way of life. For the west, however, one suicide bomber at a concert or in a mall, one shoe bomber on a plane, one mass shooting, and a host of other real and perceived threats that would scare the public out of their collective wits if known, and our way of life is forever altered.

Think I'm wrong?  Try getting on an airplane the same way you did 40 years ago.  Take photos of the Parliament buildings.  Linger too long in a train station.

You're wrong about this, religion is just a veneer for these organizations, it's a recruitment tool and is mostly bullshit.  It's all about money and power. 

I'm going to go out on a limb here.

Posit 1: Terrorism is fueled by globalization: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_earthling/features/2002/a_real_war_onterrorism/does_globalization_cause_terrorism_or_cure_it.html

Posit 2: Globalization reduced wars between state powers: http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=457

Posit 3: Deaths due to wars between state powers far outweigh deaths by terrorism: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/americans-are-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-their-own-furniture-as-by-terrorism/258156/

Conclusion: Fret not, the future is bright. We might have a bomb go off here or there, but overall, you're less likely to die today than you were 70 years ago.




 :goodpost:

Offline milnews.ca

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... As for how would I feel if I was picked off the streets by error.  I have more faith in those who are watching that they're not going to pluck me unless I am up to no good ...
I have a ton of faith in those protecting us, too, but mistakes happen -- ask these guys -- and different mistakes will happen if rules are changed.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Offline jollyjacktar

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The red tape exists for the bit highlighted in yellow.  Lets take Northern Ireland as an example.  The British Military and Intelligence Community has been receiving all sorts of flak for crap they pulled during the Troubles, etc.  False flag attacks, assassinations, shooting RUC Officers, the list goes on and on. 

One of the reasons for the creation of CSIS was as a result of illegal activity conducted by the RCMP Directorate of Security and Intelligence/Security Service.  We need to be very careful giving Law Enforcement Agencies broad powers as it could have unintended consequences.

Yes, I am quite aware of why the Secret Squirrels were shutdown and CSIS stood up.  Of course, it was more or less smoke and mirrors in that they took away the former Mounties guns and badges and gave them trench coats instead.  The same guys were doing the same job under a different name albeit with more supervision, that's all. 

You chain up your sheepdog too much, he'll not be as effective at guarding the sheep when a wolf pack comes calling one day. 


They aren't broad generalizations, they are facts.  Western Europe is probably safer than it's ever been in Human History.  Citizens have a far less chance of meeting a violent death than they ever have in spite of the media sensationalism.  This isn't even the most violent terrorist period in Europe, the 1970s to 1990s were far more violent.

 

Sure, at the present there are no major states in Europe who are eyeing the others with the thought of shanking them in the shower.  So, the chance, just now, of a repeat of that scale of major armed conflict is low.  However, there are other pressures building up right now with the insane intake of all these migrants.  Some of these migrants are wearing out their welcome pretty swiftly on the backs of the Europeans who were there first.  Some of these migrants are not "honest" migrants but outliers of the barbarians and are making their presence felt.  It's not all Sunny Ways in Europe right now, else politicians like Mme. Le Pen would be getting SFA for votes.  These attacks are a relatively new phase of the migrant wave and perhaps your scale might be blown out of the water over the next few years.  I honestly hope not.

It's easy to say we're less likely to die now than we were 70 years ago.  No kidding.  Seeing as a Second World War scale conflict isn't on the go at the moment, that is a pretty safe bet.  Of course that doesn't matter a fig to the little girls from Monday night, now does it?
 

I'm just like the CAF, I seem to have retention issues.

Offline Chris Pook

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Yes, because it was the Democrats that leaked Israeli intelligence to the Russian Ambassador.

And who leaked the info to the public?  I'm sorry JMT.  There is no equivalence. One man is paid to make that decision.  Everyone else is a kibbitzer.
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Offline Loachman

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Conclusion: Fret not, the future is bright. We might have a bomb go off here or there, but overall, you're less likely to die today than you were 70 years ago.

And ten years from now? Twenty? Fifty?

More single, young, Muslim males are entering Europe constantly, and they have little regard for societal norms, customs, and laws.

Muslim families tend to be larger than Western ones, which are too small to maintain population levels let alone growth.

This rapid demographic change will lead to more bombs, more truck attacks, more beheadings, more rapes, more assaults, more fear, less freedom, and economic loss.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Yes, I am quite aware of why the Secret Squirrels were shutdown and CSIS stood up.  Of course, it was more or less smoke and mirrors in that they took away the former Mounties guns and badges and gave them trench coats instead.  The same guys were doing the same job under a different name albeit with more supervision, that's all. 

You chain up your sheepdog too much, he'll not be as effective at guarding the sheep when a wolf pack comes calling one day. 

Sure, at the present there are no major states in Europe who are eyeing the others with the thought of shanking them in the shower.  So, the chance, just now, of a repeat of that scale of major armed conflict is low.  However, there are other pressures building up right now with the insane intake of all these migrants.  Some of these migrants are wearing out their welcome pretty swiftly on the backs of the Europeans who were there first.  Some of these migrants are not "honest" migrants but outliers of the barbarians and are making their presence felt.  It's not all Sunny Ways in Europe right now, else politicians like Mme. Le Pen would be getting SFA for votes.  These attacks are a relatively new phase of the migrant wave and perhaps your scale might be blown out of the water over the next few years.  I honestly hope not.

It's easy to say we're less likely to die now than we were 70 years ago.  No kidding.  Seeing as a Second World War scale conflict isn't on the go at the moment, that is a pretty safe bet.  Of course that doesn't matter a fig to the little girls from Monday night, now does it?

Appeals to emotion shouldn't be made when trying to make rational decisions pertaining to matters of security, we can leave those sophist forms of argumentation to the politicians.

As for Mme Le Pen and her ilk, all relics of France's colonial past.  Mme Le Pen's father founded the National Front along with a bunch of former OAS members (who were themselves terrorists).  France is paying for their dirty practices in Africa and elsewhere.  They massacred Muslims in Algeria utilizing all sorts of Barbaric methods to enforce their will, they actively supported genocidaires in Rwanda. 

They, along with every other Colonial Power have blood all over themselves.  Point is everybody is dirty in their own way, best thing we can do as people is admit as much and not participate in similar heinous acts. 

Offline Chris Pook

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/25/hard-swallow-truth-safe-terror-ever-likely/


Quote
It's hard to swallow, but the truth is we are about as safe from terror as we are ever likely to be

The biggest lie of the modern state:  We will keep you safe.

I have some ancient British books - ie they were published before the 1950's. 

The Universal Book of Hobbies and Handicrafts (ca 1930) has a chapter on self-defence, full of all sorts of Steed of the Avengers type advice on how to knock somebody off the running-boards of your car, or keeping them at bay with your brolly, or stripping their jacket down their arms to immobilize them, or tying them up with a single shoelace (their's of course - face down on the ground, two thumbs tied together behind the back with their leg pinned between their arms) --- all without messing your hair or having to remove the bowler.

A few others I have seen all convey the same message:  the world is a dangerous place and you should be prepared to manage it.  Sticks, clubs, guns are all fair game.  Strangely knives were seen as very unsporting.

But post WW2 the movement has been away from the citizen managing on their own with the police offering assistance to a promise that the police will look after you - and you can stop playing at cowboys with those silly guns.

I think the biggest shock, when dealing with this terrorism situation, is that many folks, especially younger ones, have come to accept that they are safe......

Most places aren't.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/25/hard-swallow-truth-safe-terror-ever-likely/


The biggest lie of the modern state:  We will keep you safe.

I have some ancient British books - ie they were published before the 1950's. 

The Universal Book of Hobbies and Handicrafts (ca 1930) has a chapter on self-defence, full of all sorts of Steed of the Avengers type advice on how to knock somebody off the running-boards of your car, or keeping them at bay with your brolly, or stripping their jacket down their arms to immobilize them, or tying them up with a single shoelace (their's of course - face down on the ground, two thumbs tied together behind the back with their leg pinned between their arms) --- all without messing your hair or having to remove the bowler.

A few others I have seen all convey the same message:  the world is a dangerous place and you should be prepared to manage it.  Sticks, clubs, guns are all fair game.  Strangely knives were seen as very unsporting.

But post WW2 the movement has been away from the citizen managing on their own with the police offering assistance to a promise that the police will look after you - and you can stop playing at cowboys with those silly guns.

I think the biggest shock, when dealing with this terrorism situation, is that many folks, especially younger ones, have come to accept that they are safe......

Most places aren't.

Completely agree with your point Chris, it's because First World Countries outsource everything: violence, pollution, manufacturing, etc... we have no problems because we give them to everyone else.

Offline Chris Pook

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/25/loose-lipped-americans-cannot-allowed-put-counter-terrorist/

Quote
Loose-lipped Americans cannot be allowed to put our counter-terrorist efforts at risk
TIMOTHY STAFFORD

Quote
Research by Washington Post reporter Dana Priest found that by 2010, 850,000 Americans were in possession of top-secret security clearances,

Now, if I remember correctly, I had a Top Secret clearance as a young, and newly joined, subbie long ago and far away.

I also recall that there were some really intriguing levels above mine of which I heard rumours.  Things like Cosmic and Ultra and ....  Kind of like being informed that you have your Third Degree and thinking you are top of the heap only to find their are 30 more degrees behind the curtain.

If previous administrations have "discounted" Top Secret to bargain basement status is it too much to expect that a newer, higher classification, with a much narrower distribution, might be in the offing?




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Offline Kat Stevens

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/25/hard-swallow-truth-safe-terror-ever-likely/


The biggest lie of the modern state:  We will keep you safe.

I have some ancient British books - ie they were published before the 1950's. 

The Universal Book of Hobbies and Handicrafts (ca 1930) has a chapter on self-defence, full of all sorts of Steed of the Avengers type advice on how to knock somebody off the running-boards of your car, or keeping them at bay with your brolly, or stripping their jacket down their arms to immobilize them, or tying them up with a single shoelace (their's of course - face down on the ground, two thumbs tied together behind the back with their leg pinned between their arms) --- all without messing your hair or having to remove the bowler.

A few others I have seen all convey the same message:  the world is a dangerous place and you should be prepared to manage it.  Sticks, clubs, guns are all fair game.  Strangely knives were seen as very unsporting.

But post WW2 the movement has been away from the citizen managing on their own with the police offering assistance to a promise that the police will look after you - and you can stop playing at cowboys with those silly guns.

I think the biggest shock, when dealing with this terrorism situation, is that many folks, especially younger ones, have come to accept that they are safe......

Most places aren't.

The galling part of this is that those of us who are willing and able to protect themselves, are vigorously investigated and prosecuted when they do. I live in a rural county that is 75km north to south, and about 65km east to west. There is one cop on duty at night. When seconds count, the police are a half hour away.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 19:02:11 by Kat Stevens »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Retired AF Guy

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I know you are venting, jjt, but you know we will "wake the frig up" only the day you and I accept being stopped, searched, held without charge, etc. at the police's sole discretion. I for one will never accept that.

Totally agree with you, but in this case the bomber was known to intelligence/security agencies and had in the past made statements about "suicide bombings being okay." In fact, a couple of his best friends phoned the terrorist hot line expressing concern about his statements. 

Link Here.

And by the way, I hope you don't live in Ontario because our glorious leaders are proposing that police, under the guise of combating impaired driving, will be allowed to pull drivers over at random without due clause.
Years ago, fairy tales all began with, "Once upon a time." Now we know they all began with, "If I'm elected."

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Offline Chris Pook

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https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/police-powers-to-stop-vehicles-and-question-drivers/

I first moved to Alberta in August of 1980. My first Check Stop was probably in September 1980 - with the Christmas and New Year's Check Stops becoming something of a tradition.

Meh.
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Offline Haggis

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The belief that our law enforcement and security agencies can protect us is a myth.  People have by and large bought into that myth and blithely go about their everyday lives in blissful ignorance to what's going on around them, good or bad, until something happens before their very eyes.  (Then, rather than intervene, they whip out their smartphones... but that's another topic.)

In order to perpetuate that myth, our security services have to be effective/(lucky) 100% of the time.  in order to destroy that myth, at least at the local or regional level, the bad guys have to be lucky once.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2017, 23:03:29 by Haggis »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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And ten years from now? Twenty? Fifty?

More single, young, Muslim males are entering Europe constantly, and they have little regard for societal norms, customs, and laws.

Muslim families tend to be larger than Western ones, which are too small to maintain population levels let alone growth.

This rapid demographic change will lead to more bombs, more truck attacks, more beheadings, more rapes, more assaults, more fear, less freedom, and economic loss.

As long as my family tree doesn't have to fight the Germans or Japanese again, I'm good :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Lumber

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The belief that our law enforcement and security agencies can protect us is a myth.  People have by and large bought into that myth and blithely go about their everyday lives in blissful ignorance to what's going on around them, good or bad, until something happens before their very eyes.  (Then, rather than intervene, they whip out their smartphones... but that's another topic.)

In order to perpetuate that myth, our security services have to be effective/(lucky) 100% of the time.  in order to destroy that myth, at least at the local or regional level, the bad guys have to be lucky once.

This is the entire basis for all society! Everything (including the cake) is a lie! It's all smoke and mirrors; you're never truly safe. Even you guys who "are willing and able to protect themselves" are pathetically vulnerable. Even if we had concealed carry in Canada, nothing would stop someone with severe mental issues from walking up to you from behind as you walk down some cute small town, slitting your throat and hacking your head off. Even if we banned all immigrants, Muslim or otherwise, nothing you do could stop some assh*le with (insert political/religious agenda here) from blowing up a home made bomb as you stand in line for the next Star Wars movie.

No amount of personal protection, government, law, security or military action will create a society whereby you are 100% safe all the time. We have to decide what we think is an acceptable level of risk compared against an acceptable level of freedom, and then spend our lives "believing" that we are 100% safe, even though deep down we know we're not. Yes, were being blithely ignorant, but what the f*kk is the point of living if you're going to be scared, cynical and paranoid all the time?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 11:35:24 by Lumber »
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