Author Topic: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier  (Read 9501 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2018, 11:03:32 »
As opposed to...............

Is that you?
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2018, 11:57:23 »
Is that you?
It can't be him;  the pic is in colour.   :whistle:

Offline medicineman

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2018, 12:04:49 »
It can't be him;  the pic is in colour.   :whistle:

 :rofl:

MM
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I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2018, 12:11:18 »
I seen (saw?) some soldiers marching yesterday doing what I'm guessing is the new combat force test.  They had issued small packs attached to 64 pattern jump frame (like in Gaps pic).  I still can't quite understand what was going on there.
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Offline medicineman

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 13:06:34 »
I seen (saw?) some soldiers marching yesterday doing what I'm guessing is the new combat force test.  They had issued small packs attached to 64 pattern jump frame (like in Gaps pic).  I still can't quite understand what was going on there.

Nijmegen team?
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2018, 13:47:03 »
Could be! I guessed force test because they were in FFO
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Offline RocketRichard

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2018, 01:13:36 »
I seen (saw?) some soldiers marching yesterday doing what I'm guessing is the new combat force test.  They had issued small packs attached to 64 pattern jump frame (like in Gaps pic).  I still can't quite understand what was going on there.
Where was that at?


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Offline dapaterson

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2018, 01:24:34 »
If you're getting LDA, you're supposed to be doing Combat FORCE annually.  FFO + a 10kg small pack or a 5km march in 50-60 minutes, then a five minute cool down when you ditch the small pack.  Then you do all the FORCE events.  None are individually timed, but you have to complete them all within a specified window of time.

If you're in a field force unit getting LDA and not doing Combat FORCE at least once a year, your CoC isn't doing their job.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2018, 11:21:16 »
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Offline RocketRichard

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2018, 11:53:48 »
Petawawa
Ack. Thanks J.


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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2018, 23:54:35 »
The Overweight Infantryman

The Army field manual on foot marches, FM 21-18, which has not been updated since 1990, does not take into account individual body weight. It prescribes a fighting load of no more than 48 pounds and an approach march load of 72 pounds. There is, however, a caveat to those weights. The manual states, “The primary consideration is not how much a soldier can carry, but how much he can carry without impaired combat effectiveness—mentally or physically.” This essentially bases a determination about the amount carried on individual capabilities.

Soldiers today are consistently carrying loads into combat that weigh 70–100 pounds more than what Marshall or the Army field manual prescribes. This over-burdening has significantly hindered soldiers’ and Marines’ ability to effectively maneuver on the battlefield. So how do we get soldier loads closer to these prescribed weights?

https://mwi.usma.edu/the-overweight-infantryman/
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2018, 00:30:55 »
Quote from: daftandbarmy


So how do we get soldier loads closer to these prescribed weights?


1. Aftermarket kit
2. Make kitlists come from the bottom and not the top.
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Online MJP

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2018, 00:43:25 »
2. Make kitlists come from the bottom and not the top.

Troops can be dumb and carry dumb things.  Can't fix the kit weight gap fast (ie use new tech in short timeframe) so how about a unit make a kitlist that makes sense and allows for some variability due to role/posn and leaders lead and do inspections and ruthlessly culls kit not required. 
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2018, 00:44:05 »
1. Aftermarket kit
2. Make kitlists come from the bottom and not the top.

Good start, and the priority should be ammo, water, rations. Just my thoughts.

MJP has hit the nail on the head. iPods aren’t required on ex.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2018, 01:33:16 »
Troops can be dumb and carry dumb things.  Can't fix the kit weight gap fast (ie use new tech in short timeframe) so how about a unit make a kitlist that makes sense and allows for some variability due to role/posn and leaders lead and do inspections and ruthlessly culls kit not required.

Yup. Inspections are important but, too often, seem to be neglected. That, and we tend to ammo/ kit up as if we are all SOF Teams operating 100 miles away from B Ech for weeks on end.

One (small-ish) first aid kit per platoon, one/ two compasses per section, one litre of water per man, 1 x 50 rd belt of 7.62 per man.... sharing the load like that, and having an efficient resupply system, can really help save a lot in the long run.

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline 211RadOp

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2018, 08:07:37 »
Troops can be dumb and carry dumb things.  Can't fix the kit weight gap fast (ie use new tech in short timeframe) so how about a unit make a kitlist that makes sense and allows for some variability due to role/posn and leaders lead and do inspections and ruthlessly culls kit not required.

A few years ago we were in Pet for IBTS.  During the time there, we moved out of the biv into the woods for two nights to give the younger soldiers some experience in sleeping under the stars.  While watching my Sect pack, I noticed a young lady packing her hair dryer and curling iron into her ruck.  I quickly stopped her and had another young lady with more experience help her re-pack.  The look on her face though when I asked her where she intended on plugging in her hairdryer was priceless.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2018, 10:44:46 »
A few years ago we were in Pet for IBTS.  During the time there, we moved out of the biv into the woods for two nights to give the younger soldiers some experience in sleeping under the stars.  While watching my Sect pack, I noticed a young lady packing her hair dryer and curling iron into her ruck.  I quickly stopped her and had another young lady with more experience help her re-pack.  The look on her face though when I asked her where she intended on plugging in her hairdryer was priceless.

That's awesome. I suppose she thought there were currant bushes in the training area?
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline FJAG

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2018, 13:32:56 »
That's awesome. I suppose she thought there were currant bushes in the training area?

She probably expected that there would be a power plant.  ;D

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Offline medicineman

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2018, 16:01:32 »
We're going to need a new thread just for puns if this keeps up...

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2018, 16:06:37 »
We're going to need a new thread just for puns if this keeps up...

MM

It'd probably just unravel.

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2018, 17:51:17 »
It'd probably just unravel.

Prickly subject it appears.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2018, 22:17:55 »
Weight of War: Gear that protects troops also injures them

Military studies acknowledge that combat soldiers are carrying too much weight — often more than 100 pounds. These loads have contributed to soaring numbers of injuries, and higher costs in disability payments.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/weight-of-war-gear-that-protects-troops-also-injures-them/

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Thucydides

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2018, 01:17:28 »
This isn't really a new problem:
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline FJAG

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Re: The Overburdened Infantry Soldier
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2018, 13:59:50 »
This isn't really a new problem:

But every century contained eighty combatants and twenty non combatant servants. Each contubernium of ten men had two servants within it who were responsible for the squad's pack mule and tent, and ensuring that the eight combatants were properly hydrated on the march.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marian_reforms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contubernium

That still left an estimated 60 lbs plus of armour, weapons, and other equipment on each legionary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_military_personal_equipment

I've been on exercises with Italian pack mules in the Alps. It's not that much fun and they are harder to train than the soldiers.  ;D

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