Topic: Direct Entry Officer (DEO) questions [Merged]

[Loachman]

A lot of occupations have high failure rates, and AEC is one of them. "Hard"? Some courses are, and there is a lot of work required to pass them, yes, but, aside from that, some people, no matter how intelligent, motivated, and talented, are simply not suited for those types of work.

Having your mind at ease is not a good thing now, on course, or on the job. Another term for that is "complacency".

And it's "Int" in Canada. "Intel" is American.

[edlabonte]

Passing an AEC course is not for the faint of heart.  You will spend many nights studying for exams or practicing in the simulator.  You need to focus maximum effort at all times while on course.  You must study and practice with your course mates.  You will either pass together or fail alone. 

Then when Friday night comes around, you will need to take some time to relax and unwind.  If you don't, you well stress yourself out and buckle under the heavy course load.

Good luck on your upcoming courses, See you in the Ops Room.

[overwatch]

I will be applying to Aerospace Control Officer occupation as a direct entry applicant and I was curious about a specific scenario regarding it. I will most likely have Aerospace Control Officer as my only listed occupation. I was wondering what would happen if I, by happenstance, fail my professional training? Will I be "forced" to take on another occupation or will I be let go?

[PuckChaser]

You've already asked this question and had it answered in another thread. If you want more detail, call the recruiting centre.

[overwatch]

You've already asked this question and had it answered in another thread. If you want more detail, call the recruiting centre.

My bad. Another user suggested this thread, I thought there was more details to the question that weren't addressed.

[PuckChaser]

Suggestion was an implication to read through the thread. 

[Sorcerers]

Heyo All... Is there anyone out there who has applied for DEO Legal in the past 12 months? And if yes, what stage of the process are you at?

I haven't heard anything since September 2016 (July 2016 CFAT) despite following up with my local CFRC by telephone and email.

Thanks!!

[csers]

Heyo All... Is there anyone out there who has applied for DEO Legal in the past 12 months? And if yes, what stage of the process are you at?

I haven't heard anything since September 2016 (July 2016 CFAT) despite following up with my local CFRC by telephone and email.

Thanks!!

Yup... glad I'm not the only one asking! 

I completed my application in November 2016, and have had radio silence pretty much ever since. The info that I do have is that as of June 2017, there were 13 positions available and 19 applicants for each one. Yet Legal Officer is listed as "Now hiring", and are still accepting applications. Several reserve units were hiring, but I'm not sure if they still are- I understand that offers have gone out for the units in Ottawa.  Rumor also has it that they are about to go on a major hiring spree, so I guess we'll see.

[Cassis61]

If DEO is chosen as the pathway into the CF, what happens if the education obtained prior to entry is missing elements of the degree offered at the RMC? For example, there are courses in the RMC's Military Psychology and Leadership degree that might not be available as part of a psychology degree at a civilian university such as PSE312 (Applied Military Psychology) or PSE401 (Military Professionalism and Ethics) Does one make those up at some point? Thanks.
- dw

[VanIslander]

What makes you think PSE312 or any other RMC course is relevant, at all, to being an officer?

[Cassis61]

The fact that the RMC lists these courses as mandatory for the purposes of completing the Psych degree they offer, is what. Said degree being a prerequisite for the PSEL occupation. 

At least that's what I'm reading on the website.  If ive misunderstood then I'd be happy to be corrected. 

[PuckChaser]

They're going to look at your degree and make sure its acceptable for the entry plan/trade you're applying to. Unless you bought your degree online from the US, you should be fine. All the extra courses offered at RMC are "perks" of attending there as a ROTP candidate. RMC is not where your degree is reviewed, the CAF Recruiting Group does it completely outside their control.

[sidemount]

The fact that the RMC lists these courses as mandatory for the purposes of completing the Psych degree they offer, is what. Said degree being a prerequisite for the PSEL occupation. 

At least that's what I'm reading on the website.  If ive misunderstood then I'd be happy to be corrected.

Those are courses for degrees from RMC and RMC alone, if you hold a suitable degree (which you need anyway to apply as a deo) You will not need to take other courses from RMC. Dont worry about what is in an RMC degree, it doesnt matter to you nor your application.

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[sidemount]

They're going to look at your degree and make sure its acceptable for the entry plan/trade you're applying to. Unless you bought your degree online from the US, you should be fine. All the extra courses offered at RMC are "perks" of attending there as a ROTP candidate. RMC is not where your degree is reviewed, the CAF Recruiting Group does it completely outside their control.

Yeah what Puck said

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[VanIslander]

The fact that the RMC lists these courses as mandatory for the purposes of completing the Psych degree they offer, is what. Said degree being a prerequisite for the PSEL occupation. 

At least that's what I'm reading on the website.  If ive misunderstood then I'd be happy to be corrected.

I believe that any suitable degree qualifies the applicant, not specifically a degree from RMC.

If my reply seems harsh, it is because you appear to be making a common mistake, which is believing that RMC and/or its graduates are special or better than others.

RMC is just another university, except with a miserable student experience, poorer academics and stronger athletics.

You get paid, though. So that is a bonus.

[Cassis61]

Thanks gents. I thought that maybe was the case but good to know.

Does or can the following ever occur: via ROTP (not DEO), you get a suitable bachelors for occupation X. You study,graduate, and begin your service in your chosen occupation. Down the road, a different occupation appeals to you that requires a different degree or an upgrade to a masters, e.g., a Logistics Officer wishes to become a Social Worker. If they approve the occupation change, will the CF pay for the education?

[Cassis61]

VanIslander. No offence taken. I get your point. For the record I made no such assumptions. Note that I speciified DEO meaning I wouldn't pass through RMC anyway. That was intentional for precisely the reasons you state - I don't believe the academic quality at RMC is at the same level as a UofT or UBC. That said, I wanted to make sure that all necessary components of the occupation's prerequisites would be covered.

[VanIslander]

Looks like I misinterpreted.

My mistake.

[Navy_Pete]

Thanks gents. I thought that maybe was the case but good to know.

Does or can the following ever occur: via ROTP (not DEO), you get a suitable bachelors for occupation X. You study,graduate, and begin your service in your chosen occupation. Down the road, a different occupation appeals to you that requires a different degree or an upgrade to a masters, e.g., a Logistics Officer wishes to become a Social Worker. If they approve the occupation change, will the CF pay for the education?

There are programs to switch to very certain trades; doctors, dentists, lawyers etc that you can apply for after you are fully qualified in your occupation. They are pretty competitive, and you usually have to have progressed somehow to getting that qualification.  It changes annually based on requirements and once in a while they talk about getting rid of certain trades as military occupations and having them become civilian positions.

Every year there is a list of post graduate opportunities available, and are generally open to specific trades, as you have a payback period in specific jobs afterwards.  Again, can be very competitive and the list is also based on requirements of the service. Or some years no one applies and some random person gets it that no one expects but doesn't get accepted by the university...

[Cassis61]

Thank you Navy_Pete. 

I recently had a discussion on this topic with a Recruiter from Calgary. The gist of what she said parallels what you are saying. She indicated that after doing one's bachelor's under ROTP, training and working in your selected occupation for 48 months, you could then look to do a VOT into a different profession subject to the CAF's approval. The 48 months is a general entry standard (along with an appropriate undergrad degree) for the SEELM program.  She also mentioned how competitive this can be.

-dw

[TheAeronaut]

This seems the most appropriate thread for my question, even though it's quite old:

From what I can tell from the CF recruiting site, some DEO candidates are commissioned as 2nd LT while others immediately as a full LT.

My understanding, based on information on CAF recruitment pages and this website, was that if and when I qualify as a DEO in the Reserves, my rank would immediately be 2Lt upon swearing in (I have a Masters in the preferred degree for my trade), and promoted to Lt after DP1. However, I was on a base recently, and was informed by a serving Captain that despite the official rules, I would actually be taken in as an Officer Cadet and be promoted to 2Lt AFTER DP1.

This affects pay, which affects my ability to proceed with my recruitment, since my employer will now have to compensate for a larger pay-gap.

I've sent an email out to my recruiter to confirm, but I'm hoping to get some POV on why this is the case.

EDIT

Just to add another question, what exactly is the length of the BMOQ Army/Land course (the one after BMQ, before trades, that must be done full-time)? I have been given numbers from 4 weeks to 3 months by recruiters and members on base.

[RomeoJuliet]

This seems the most appropriate thread for my question, even though it's quite old:

My understanding, based on information on CAF recruitment pages and this website, was that if and when I qualify as a DEO in the Reserves, my rank would immediately be 2Lt upon swearing in (I have a Masters in the preferred degree for my trade), and promoted to Lt after DP1. However, I was on a base recently, and was informed by a serving Captain that despite the official rules, I would actually be taken in as an Officer Cadet and be promoted to 2Lt AFTER DP1.

This affects pay, which affects my ability to proceed with my recruitment, since my employer will now have to compensate for a larger pay-gap.

I've sent an email out to my recruiter to confirm, but I'm hoping to get some POV on why this is the case.

EDIT

Just to add another question, what exactly is the length of the BMOQ Army/Land course (the one after BMQ, before trades, that must be done full-time)? I have been given numbers from 4 weeks to 3 months by recruiters and members on base.

There are a few guidlines regarding promotions in the PRes. Best check with the unit you are applying to.  BMOQA is 11 weeks long.

[CountDC]

Common issue of incorrect information passed.

All officers are enrolled as OCdt.  As a DEO you may be promoted after completing military training with an effective date of your enrolment (and yes back pay will be issued).  Note that MAY does not mean WILL even though most times it does happen.

[dapaterson]

Commissioning is always as SLt/2Lt; in certain instances, it is followed by simultaneous promotion to another rank.  But commissioning scrolls are always to the rank of SLt/2Lt.

[TheAeronaut]

From what I read above and the info I've gathered, there is no standard procedure. Or at least, adherence to standard procedure.