Author Topic: Trump signs massive defense bill  (Read 4228 times)

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Offline Gimli

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Online FJAG

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2018, 22:04:11 »
I note that while Trump has signed the bill, he has never yet called it by it's full and proper name: "The John S McCain National Defence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019"

Still hates McCain.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/donald-trump-john-mccain-defense-spending/index.html

 :cheers:
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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2018, 22:14:02 »
More soldiers.  Better pay.  Good job Trump! 

Wish Canada would step up as well.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/34440/trump-signs-massive-defense-bill-biggest-pay-raise-hank-berrien?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

The Defence bill is bigger than their already untenable deficit.  Good job indeed
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 00:07:06 by PPCLI Guy »
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2018, 23:37:55 »
The government takes in a lot of money but runs a defecit. At some point the chickens will com hom to roost. Defense spending is a necessary evil and is spelled out in the Constitution. My retied pay never has bounced thankfully. 8)

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2018, 06:50:44 »
The government takes in a lot of money but runs a defecit. At some point the chickens will com hom to roost. Defense spending is a necessary evil and is spelled out in the Constitution. My retied pay never has bounced thankfully. 8)

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

Is the US Defence budget really a necessity ? 

Lead me, follow me or get the hell out of my way

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2018, 09:47:45 »
Is the US Defence budget really a necessity ?

Yes it is paying welfare for example is not in the Constitution but we do it anyway because we are a compassionate country.This bill prevents the Pentagon from reducing troop numbers without the Sec of Defense certified it was in the national interest.

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/defense-act-restricts-efforts-to-cut-us-troop-numbers-in-south-korea-1.542502 

https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/the-constitutional-charge-defend-america

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2018, 10:05:36 »
Is the US Defence budget really a necessity ?

It is for the 'Free World Freeloaders' ;)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2018, 10:46:00 »
The government takes in a lot of money but runs a defecit. At some point the chickens will com hom to roost. Defense spending is a necessary evil and is spelled out in the Constitution. My retied pay never has bounced thankfully. 8)

https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762

The Constitution (not surprisingly) directs that a standing force be maintained.  It does not direct that it be larger (in $ terms) than the next 10 countries combined.  That is a discretionary choice.

"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2018, 13:43:39 »
The Constitution (not surprisingly) directs that a standing force be maintained.  It does not direct that it be larger (in $ terms) than the next 10 countries combined.  That is a discretionary choice.

I would not want to live in a world without the protection that the military affords. I would like to see a return to cold war strengths and if its not practical at least increase the size of the Army National Guard and Army/USMC Reserves.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2018, 13:51:00 »
Our own military is in shambles, unequipped and nothing more than a political pawn.

I really don't think we should be dissecting anyone else's military.

We are not morally positioned for that.

 
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2018, 16:45:51 »
Our own military is in shambles, unequipped and nothing more than a political pawn.

I really don't think we should be dissecting anyone else's military.

We are not morally positioned for that.

There is no moral judgement implied or otherwise in this simple statement of fact:

Quote
The Constitution (not surprisingly) directs that a standing force be maintained.  It does not direct that it be larger (in $ terms) than the next 10 countries combined.  That is a discretionary choice.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2018, 17:09:53 »
The Defence bill is bigger than their already untenable deficit.  Good job indeed

I mean, at least they're getting some defense spending for their untenable deficit, but we're just asking for too much.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2018, 17:36:37 »
Comparison of Deficit as a percentage of GDP

In FY 2017 the US federal deficit was 3.4 percent of GDP. This year, FY 2018, the federal government in its latest budget has estimated that the deficit will be 4.2 percent of GDP. 

Canada recorded a Government Budget deficit equal to 0.90 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2017. Government Budget in Canada averaged -1.80 percent of GDP from 1949 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 5.10 percent of GDP in 1950 and a record low of -8.30 percent of GDP in 1985.

Comparison of debt as a percentage of GDP:

Canada recorded a government debt equivalent to 89.60 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2017. Government Debt to GDP in Canada averaged 78.07 percent from 1980 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 100.60 percent in 1996 and a record low of 45.10 percent in 1980. 

The United States recorded a government debt equivalent to 105.40 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2017. Government Debt to GDP in the United States averaged 61.70 percent from 1940 until 2017, reaching an all time high of 118.90 percent in 1946 and a record low of 31.70 percent in 1981.

There is a point at which deficits and debt are no longer tenable.  I don't know what that point is, but it appears that the US is closer to it.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2018, 17:42:44 »
Depends on your defintion of tenable. You're using the "unsustainable" definition. Its up to the US Government or our Government to use the "defended against attack or objection" definition. All of those definitions can be spun with whatever statistics justify your position for whatever definition or side of the argument you're on.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2018, 18:48:07 »
There is no moral judgement implied or otherwise in this simple statement of fact:

I wasn't talking about the Constitution.

To use d&b's term, Free World Freeloaders.

Including Canada.




« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 19:07:50 by recceguy »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2018, 19:02:58 »
I note that while Trump has signed the bill, he has never yet called it by it's full and proper name: "The John S McCain National Defence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019"

Still hates McCain.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/13/politics/donald-trump-john-mccain-defense-spending/index.html

 :cheers:

Besides being onerous to say, it is some thing that usually is done. Most pick up names like the 'military spending bill' and are referenced by that, while being worked on.

Lots of people hate McCain. Doesn't mean they're wrong.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Online FJAG

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2018, 19:05:38 »
Besides being onerous to say, it is some thing that usually is done. Most pick up names like the 'military spending bill' and are referenced by that, while being worked on.

Lots of people hate McCain. Doesn't mean they're wrong.

Not to use his name when it's on the bill isn't wrong. Just petty.

 :cheers:
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2018, 19:10:25 »
Again, politicians don't go around talking about bills by their formal and appointed name. Not until it's required.

It would be petty, if you had proof, instead of opinion.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Til.Valhall

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2018, 19:20:28 »
Again, politicians don't go around talking about bills by their formal and appointed name. Not until it's required.

It would be petty, if you had proof, instead of opinion.

Proof not required. Unless you live under a rock.

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 20:00:10 »
Should I retort that all your links are left wing fake news?  ;D  I don't trust media anymore. Sources are simply dismissed as fake, depending on your stance. They would make no more difference than if I had posted my favorites to back my opinion to you

You have an opinion. I have an opinion. Neither has to be right or wrong. That is our perogative.

Because Jim Acosta says something and his like minded opinion makers, at other news outlets, back him up means nothing, if it is opinion.

And many times, it's not even informed opinion with those that want to slam Trump and vice versa.

Besides, considering what McCain says about Trump, and his own party, why shouldn't there be tit for tat?

This is just another cheap dig on Trump.

If this is all they have to complain about, the US must be in pretty good shape.

Besides, who hasn't already formed their opinions about Trump and how many do you think will change their stance? That's your pettiness barometer.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 20:06:06 by recceguy »
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Til.Valhall

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2018, 20:31:18 »
If this is all they have to complain about, the US must be in pretty good shape.

Ya, that's it. Nothing else to complain about. Let's all get back to watching Fox News.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2018, 20:40:43 »
Ya, that's it. Nothing else to complain about. Let's all get back to watching Fox News.

'Xactly, but tonight is comedy night. Gotta watch CNN.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2018, 22:17:12 »
Or...and this is a crazy idea...don't watch Fox or CNN.  Read Associated Press, Reuters, AFP and the like. 
“If you run into an a-hole in the morning, you ran into an a-hole. If you run into a-holes all day, you're the a-hole.”

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Offline Til.Valhall

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Re: Trump signs massive defense bill
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2018, 22:22:06 »
Or...and this is a crazy idea...don't watch Fox or CNN.  Read Associated Press, Reuters, AFP and the like.

It would be Un-american to read just the facts without any hype or sound effects edited in. Where are you from? Europe or some communist place? ;D