Author Topic: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"  (Read 1691 times)

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Online mariomike

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Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« on: June 04, 2020, 23:34:21 »
Quote
Macleans

June 4, 2020

Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?

Thirty per cent of Conservative supporters would prefer Trump to Trudeau as a leader. That's a problem for a party needing to widen its base.

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/who-are-the-trump-loving-canadians/

« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 23:38:27 by mariomike »

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2020, 00:05:34 »


Is it really trump loving, if we simply think he is less of an <deleted to comply with site policy> then Trudeau?

Trudeau has done things, that have changed my freedoms in a significant material way.. what is wrong with not wanting him? If it is a choice between those two, and only those two, I would vote for trump. Even though I think he is an ... as well.

Abdullah

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 13:52:37 by BeyondTheNow »

Offline Kilted

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2020, 00:19:25 »


So Conservatives would prefer a Conservative over a Liberal? That dosen't seem so surprising.

Then again, I don't know if Trump is really a Conservative, considering the number of times he switched parties.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 00:23:51 »
One of the worries among conservatives (other than Trump's character weaknesses) while the primary was still unfolding in 2016 was that Trump was thought to be more of a Democrat than Republican.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

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Offline FJAG

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2020, 02:47:01 »
Is it really trump loving, if we simply think he is less of an <edit to comply with site policy> then Trudeau?

Trudeau has done things, that have changed my freedoms in a significant material way.. what is wrong with not wanting him? If it is a choice between those two, and only those two, I would vote for trump. Even though I think he is an ... as well.

Abdullah

I think that you deserved the milpoints I threw your way but I think the jury is still out.

Personally, I'd spoil my ballot.

 ;D

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 13:53:14 by BeyondTheNow »
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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2020, 04:03:44 »
I think that you deserved the milpoints I threw your way but I think the jury is still out.

Personally, I'd spoil my ballot.

 ;D

The jury is definitely still out, Trump just leads right now.. I do not put it past him to screw that up at all though.

But one thing that could be a boon to us up here, we are nobodies. Trump is an <edit to comply with site policy> in my opinion, but he is not a fool. I don't like the guy at all, he is in control of the worlds strongest Nation and he can get away with these antics. Up here, he would be an underdog on the world stage, which, I would hope.. would temper him quite significantly. He would have no threats or well reduced amount of threats he could make etc, he *could* be a better leader for us then the USA. Whereas Trudeau is just an <edit to comply with site policy> in either country. A threat of sanctions, military action etc from the USA on the world stage.. scares a lot of people.. if Canadians made those same threats.. lol.

I hope my point comes across.. both choices a bad.. in an embarrassing way. But as of right now, I'd support trump (having said that I voted for Mulcair when it Mulcair vs Trudeau vs Harper.. because I felt he was the best man for the job.. but CPC the last election because Trudeau had shown his failings).

Abdullah

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 08:20:14 by garb811 »

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2020, 05:13:56 »
I think I am part of an ever growing group of people who are finding it harder and harder to align with a political party.  The center seems to have been abandoned.
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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2020, 08:36:59 »
I would venture to guess that few of them work(ed?) in our aluminum or steel industries...
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2020, 11:24:49 »
I think I am part of an ever growing group of people who are finding it harder and harder to align with a political party.  The center seems to have been abandoned.

I agree but we should never give up.



I just wish I had the energy that I used to.

 :coffee:
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 11:27:21 by FJAG »
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2020, 13:07:03 »
I think of "the centre" as the most fiscally responsible party, and that's where I tend to put my vote.  The discussions over how to divide the pie are less important than ensuring there will always be an ample pie to divide.
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2020, 13:17:32 »
I think of "the centre" as the most fiscally responsible party, and that's where I tend to put my vote. 

I was born during the Eisenhower era.

I'm in almost total agreement with General / President Eisenhower in anything I have ever read about him.

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

I prefer municipal politics because it's non-partisan. "There's no Liberal or Conservative way to fix a sewer."  :)

Offline Remius

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2020, 13:38:39 »

I prefer municipal politics because it's non-partisan. "There's no Liberal or Conservative way to fix a sewer."  :)

Unless the sewer is on  Treaty Land?

  Our city declared a climate emergency.  Not even sure what that means or how they address that.  Also we have debates on bike lanes a lot, generally from the left wing councillors.  While we have a no party system you can see what side of the spectrum some of the members of council are on.
Optio

Offline Lumber

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2020, 14:08:31 »
I prefer municipal politics because it's non-partisan. "There's no Liberal or Conservative way to fix a sewer."  :)

What? Go check out Hamilton.

The inner city Councillors are all NDP supporters, the ones representing middle class neighbourhoods and some of the upper class ones are Liberal supporters, and the rural and majority upper class neighbourhood ones are conservative supporters.

(I'm speaking purely of economic status when I say 'class')
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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2020, 14:13:01 »
Sorry guys, I am an opionated fool and will try to maintain myself at a level that is demanded here. Sorry again, I was simply just posting how I talk in real life, with no thought. Sorry.

Offline Xylric

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2020, 15:13:26 »
I actually do greatly appreciate Trump.

Not because I agree with him on particular matters, but because he has proven himself to be something of a necessary evil. I watched a decade ago as my father went through a particularly harsh and lengthy treatment for cancer (which had very briefly reached stage 3B), and found that to be a particularly apt description for what Trump has done (and is doing) to the political climate in the United States. Especially because the particular type of cancer my father was dealing with involved the... shall we say, "lower abdomen." Trump as the political equivalent of chemotherapy (or better, radiation therapy) is a rather effective analogy.

Civilization stands only because of the widespread mutual acceptance of particular rules and expectations on the behaviour of others. The fact that Trump has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted is more valuable in the long term than the idea that the President has to be trusted with the best interests of the nation. I would rather a sociopath in the highest political offices than a complete narcissist, and the bad news is Trump is not a sociopath. To know that one's head of state cannot be trusted is equally useful knowledge as knowing that one's head of state should not be trusted blindly.

So I can like Trump for the ripples he'll leave in the stream of history whilst still personally detesting the man. Unfortunately I think the fact that such things are possible are too easily overlooked.

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 15:26:33 by mariomike »

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2020, 15:32:34 »
An article I read about vaccine development made me realize how common the following sentence construct has become:

[Orange Man Bad disclaimer], but [summary of something useful done by the Trump administration, or more rarely Trump himself].
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2020, 16:23:22 »
While we have a no party system you can see what side of the spectrum some of the members of council are on.

As long as they voted for our pay raises, I didn't care what side of the spectrum they were on.  :)

Offline Xylric

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2020, 16:48:21 »
As long as they voted for our pay raises, I didn't care what side of the spectrum they were on.  :)

Probably the most comment sentiment in the world, that.  ;D

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2020, 17:02:45 »
I am a Triumph lover. Here's mine.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2020, 17:06:57 »
Our city declared a climate emergency.  Not even sure what that means or how they address that.  Also we have debates on bike lanes a lot, generally from the left wing councillors.  While we have a no party system you can see what side of the spectrum some of the members of council are on.
Are you from Victoria?

Having 13 municipalities in an area that should really be something between one and 5-ish doesn't help, but the Vic city council seems oddly blind to all but two groups: those entirely without any of the traditional supports, and those who are sufficiently well-supported and local that biking to work is a real and worthwhile option. The lack of support for e.g. commuter rail or enough buses to make a real dent in the Colwood Crawl is notable for a theoretically green group.

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Re: Macleans: "Who are the Trump-loving Canadians?"
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2020, 09:57:32 »
Given the article's title and poll give us a false binary (Trudeau or Trump), I'll suggest it actually tells us something different.

The people who indicate they support Trump are neither Liberal or Conservative, but Populist, and believe that the current structures and institutions do not reflect or support their aspirations or goals. They are the same people who voted for the United Conservative party in Alberta, the Doug Ford PCPO in Ontario and the CAQ in Quebec. They are the people who worked to ensure the PPC had a candidate nominated in every single one of Canada's 338 ridings for the 2019 election by September 2019 (remember, the established parties still needed to parachute candidates into ridings where there were no nominations). They are motivated by a multitude of different specific concerns (try finding commonality in the various platforms of the UCP, PCPO CAQ or PPC), but that is more of a reflection of the political tools available. The underlying issue isn't the specific policy plank, the the more general feeling that the system is failing them.

Internationally, this same though process has led to Brexit, the election of Nationalist governments in Poland, Hungary, Austria, Italy and Brazil, and the growth of political parties like Partij voor de Vrijheid in the Netherlands or AfD in Germany, or the Mouvement des gilets jaunes in France. Even in the United States, I'll argue that not only is Donald Trump the manifestation of the Populist movement, but so is Bernie Sanders - the message of the failure of the current system is the same, the difference is the proposed solution.

So if we understand "Trudeau or Trump" as actually being stand ins for "retain the Establishment" or "replace the Establishment", then the answer makes far more sense.
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