Author Topic: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018  (Read 2386 times)

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« on: July 18, 2018, 15:10:09 »
I think Harjit Sajjan has done an ok job.  I met him this year and he seems like a nice guy who actually listens to you when you talk to him. 

I don't think he gets shuffled and I certainly wouldn't want Leslie to replace him.  The last thing the CAF needs is another O'Connor.

They need the South Asian vote too much, so he will stay in some kind of cabinet job IMHO....
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2018, 15:12:59 »
I don't know if shifting O'Regan would make a difference, he hasn't done anything since appointment. I doubt his replacement will either. If he's shifted.
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Offline Half Full

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2018, 15:56:27 »
Has anyone figured out exactly how the new Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction will be set up?  Does CBSA and RCMP leave Public Safety for this new Ministry?
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2018, 16:08:13 »
Has anyone figured out exactly how the new Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction will be set up?  Does CBSA and RCMP leave Public Safety for this new Ministry?

No clue, but another Liberal MP gets an extra $84K as a cabinet minister.

Offline pbi

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2018, 11:25:41 »
I think Harjit Sajjan has done an ok job.  I met him this year and he seems like a nice guy who actually listens to you when you talk to him. 

I don't think he gets shuffled and I certainly wouldn't want Leslie to replace him.  The last thing the CAF needs is another O'Connor.

I agree with you. I met the current MND when I was working on OP NANOOK last summer up n Rankin Inlet. I briefed him, and I found him to be just as you described.

I also do not want a repeat of Minister O'Connor. IMHO what the CAF needs is not another retired GOFO as MND, but an adept politician with credibility in Cabinet and the ability to navigate programs and projects through the icebergs of The House and Treasury Board. Obviously the MND needs to listen, but that's what the CDS and his crew are for: to keep him briefed and aimed in the right direction.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2018, 12:30:13 »
Agree pbi, but is Gerald Butts listening or interested?
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2018, 12:34:06 »
I think Harjit Sajjan has done an ok job.  I met him this year and he seems like a nice guy who actually listens to you when you talk to him. 

I don't think he gets shuffled and I certainly wouldn't want Leslie to replace him.  The last thing the CAF needs is another O'Connor.

I think he is well meaning and cares about DND and the people in it. However he is in the wrong party and the best he can do is build a hasty defense and not lose anymore ground.

Offline pbi

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2018, 12:54:31 »
Agree pbi, but is Gerald Butts listening or interested?

No ,but I don't see any move to replace Sajian so I guess right now it doesn't matter. The Tories should start thinking about it, though.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 14:24:36 »
No ,but I don't see any move to replace Sajian so I guess right now it doesn't matter. The Tories should start thinking about it, though.

They should also think about finding a credible leader that people recognize. Trudeau might be a technical light weight, but he's got a powerful personal brand....
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 14:53:33 »
They should also think about finding a credible leader that people recognize. Trudeau might be a technical light weight, but he's got a powerful personal brand....

Suggestions?
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 16:02:26 »
No clue, but another Liberal MP gets an extra $84K as a cabinet minister.

Four more Cabinet Minister's and he will match the Harper Government for ensuring that Party Members get the extra coin:

Quote
It has become common practice for an incoming government to shrink the size of cabinet to project an image of saving money and controlling bureaucracy, Wiseman said, then to expand it closer to an election for political advantage.

Before today's shuffle there were 30 members of cabinet, including Trudeau, evenly split by gender. The new cabinet has 35 members including Trudeau, with 17 women and 18 men.

Former Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper appointed 26 members to his first cabinet in 2006. By the time his government lost power in 2015, there were 39 ministers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-cabinet-shuffle-2018-1.4749976
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 16:27:55 »
Any chance for a Harper dig, right? What happened to "Real Change" and "Champion for the Middle Class"? I'm actually surprised Trudeua has a Cabinet at all, considering he shouts down opposition to his plans during caucus meetings anyways.

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 16:53:26 »
Any chance for a Harper dig, right? What happened to "Real Change" and "Champion for the Middle Class"? I'm actually surprised Trudeua has a Cabinet at all, considering he shouts down opposition to his plans during caucus meetings anyways.

No dig at all. Merely a statement of fact. I am dispassionate about these things - I just like to see some balance that is based in fact.

This on the other hand, does sound like a dig:

Quote
Quote from: PuckChaser on Yesterday at 15:08:13
No clue, but another Liberal MP gets an extra $84K as a cabinet minister.

#cognitivedissonance


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 16:55:30 »
Why does the CBC article make mention of how male and female members Trudeau has but not how many Harper had?

Trudeau made a huge deal about gender parity, I can only guess Harper had a majority of male cabinet ministers right?
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2018, 17:04:56 »
Why does the CBC article make mention of how male and female members Trudeau has but not how many Harper had?

Trudeau made a huge deal about gender parity, I can only guess Harper had a majority of male cabinet ministers right?

Because Harper based his picks on qualifications and not gender.
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2018, 17:11:43 »
No dig at all. Merely a statement of fact. I am dispassionate about these things - I just like to see some balance that is based in fact.

You're not dispassionate. You play that card but take every opportunity to pop in an knock someone down who isn't supporting the Liberals, but never have I seen you provide that "balance based in fact" on the other end of the political spectrum. Nobody is going to fault you for your support of the Liberal government, but you should own it and not try to say you're a neutral observer when its painfully obvious that you're not. It does your arguments a disservice to say so.

I'll also place my comment this way: Liberal Cabinet is 36 full ministers at approx $84K extra pay per year. Last Tory Cabinet had 39 members, 11 of whom where Ministers of State which make approx $60K a year and do not get the full entitlement of staffers and Parliamentary Secretaries (who make approx $20k per year for that job). The Tory Cabinet also ended up at 39 after 2 election cycles. Trudeau's done it in 2 years, all while elevating everyone to the full $84K.

If you could also explain what why we require a Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction when the Minister of Public Safety is already responsible for the RCMP and CBSA, maybe I'd be able to see why you think more Ministers are better.

Jarnhamar: For reference, Harper's last Cabinet had 12 women, 24 men.

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2018, 17:16:49 »
Why does the CBC article make mention of how male and female members Trudeau has but not how many Harper had?

Trudeau made a huge deal about gender parity, I can only guess Harper had a majority of male cabinet ministers right?

PM Harper last cabinet by the election in 2015 was 39 Ministers:
24 Male = 62%
12 Female = 38%

Reference: Guide to Canadian Ministries since Confederation - Twenty-Eighth Ministry
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2018, 17:38:27 »


If you could also explain what why we require a Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction when the Minister of Public Safety is already responsible for the RCMP and CBSA, maybe I'd be able to see why you think more Ministers are better.

Jarnhamar: For reference, Harper's last Cabinet had 12 women, 24 men.

Because Ralph needs all his energy to fight the true threat to Canadian society, the legal gun owners......

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2018, 17:48:47 »
However, Kratz:

Harper last Cabinet: 12 women out of 27 MP's (for 44% of Conservative female MP's actually making it into the  Cabinet).

Trudeau's current Cabinet: 16 women out of 52 female Liberal MP's (for 31% of female MP's making it into the Cabinet).

As a side note here: Harper Cabinet: only 17% of male MP's made it into the cabinet. Trudeau's current cabinet: 13% of Liberal male MP's made it into Cabinet.

Anyone wants to argue that this gender balanced Cabinet concept makes sense or is fair?

Anyone else wants to claim that Trudeau is "superior" (in a feminist sense) toHarper in his advancement of women in politics with Harper actually appointing 25% more women MP's to Cabinet in proportion?

Just starting a conversation here - don't shoot me, argue the point.

Because Ralph needs all his energy to fight the true threat to Canadian society, the legal gun owners......

Actually, Colin, reducing the number of guns on the street of Toronto will apparently fall within the purview of our new Minister for Organized Crime Reduction (according to the National post article I read this morning). At least it's an admission (indirectly) that the gun violence problem in Canada is related to the criminal element of society, not law abiding citizens. That's an almost incredible admission from the Liberals.

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2018, 17:54:23 »
However, Kratz:

Harper last Cabinet: 12 women out of 27 MP's (for 44% of Conservative female MP's actually making it into the  Cabinet).

Trudeau's current Cabinet: 16 women out of 52 female Liberal MP's (for 31% of female MP's making it into the Cabinet).

As a side note here: Harper Cabinet: only 17% of male MP's made it into the cabinet. Trudeau's current cabinet: 13% of Liberal male MP's made it into Cabinet.

Anyone wants to argue that this gender balanced Cabinet concept makes sense or is fair?

Anyone else wants to claim that Trudeau is "superior" (in a feminist sense) toHarper in his advancement of women in politics with Harper actually appointing 25% more women MP's to Cabinet in proportion?

Just starting a conversation here - don't shoot me, argue the point.
 
Actually, Colin, reducing the number of guns on the street of Toronto will apparently fall within the purview of our new Minister for Organized Crime Reduction (according to the National post article I read this morning). At least it's an admission (indirectly) that the gun violence problem in Canada is related to the criminal element of society, not law abiding citizens. That's an almost incredible admission from the Liberals.

As far as the grits are concerned, gun owners are criminals. Before we take your suggestion to the bank and believe this 'incredible admission', lets see what falls out of the gun control legislation they are going to hit us with.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2018, 17:57:42 »
You're not dispassionate. You play that card but take every opportunity to pop in an knock someone down who isn't supporting the Liberals, but.....
You clearly don't know PPCLI Guy, accusing him being some Liberal party sycophant.   :rofl:  I've found that he has this 'nasty' habit of weighing into Politics threads with..... ~shudder~ ...verifiable facts -- usually when ideologues post propaganda, rather than reality.

Your preception, of course, may vary.


Just starting a conversation here - don't shoot me, argue the point.
Good luck with that.  The only recent progress with Politics "discussions" is that the more hide-bound (left and  right) have moved on to expressing their 'thoughts' via political cartoons. 
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2018, 18:00:06 »
You clearly don't know PPCLI Guy, accusing him being some Liberal party sycophant.   :rofl:  I've found that he has this 'nasty' habit of weighing into Politics threads with..... ~shudder~ ...verifiable facts -- usually when ideologues post propaganda, rather than reality.

Your preception, of course, may vary.

Good luck with that.  The only recent progress with Politics "discussions" is that the more hide-bound (left and  right) have moved on to expressing their 'thoughts' via political cartoons.

Can't get passed the cheap shots can you? :rofl:
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2018, 18:15:54 »
Can't get passed the cheap shots can you? :rofl:
a)  not sure which part you're referring to, but it doesn't really matter;  I stand by both comments.

b)  Ya, I just came back to delete my post -- because, seriously, why bother trying to contribute anything to these politics threads, but too late, it has already been quoted.  Again, I stand by it.



….and, honestly, I AM trying to avoid posting here.  I belong to other sites where intelligent political discussions occur (yes, both left and right).
There’s nothing more maddening than debating someone who doesn’t know history, doesn’t read books, and frames their myopia as virtue. The level of unapologetic conjecture I’ve encountered lately isn’t just frustrating, it’s retrogressive, unprecedented, and absolutely terrifying.
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Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2018, 18:20:18 »
a)  not sure which part you're referring to, but it doesn't really matter;  I stand by both comments.

b)  Ya, I just came back to delete my post -- because, seriously, why bother trying to contribute anything to these politics threads, but too late, it has already been quoted.  Again, I stand by it.



….and, honestly, I AM trying to avoid posting here. I belong to other sites where intelligent political discussions occur (yes, both left and right).
It's kind of hilarious how perspectives change depending on where you post.

On this site, i'm a diehard leftist.

On others, I'm a right leaning Liberal hater.

I get confused sometimes.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2018, 18:41:23 »
John Ivison's piece in the National Post today suggests that the Cabinet Shuffle is largely cosmetic, with only one demotion of any note, and moving two ministers closer to "home" in preparation for the 2019 election:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-a-new-crew-wont-change-the-direction-hmcs-trudeau-is-heading?video_autoplay=true

The real issue is the Trudeau government is still "narrative" driven and still a top down show, it really seems that almost anyone could be placed in a Cabinet post since the true importance is "optics" rather than merit (the insistence that 50% of the Cabinet must be made up of women, without any actual substantive arguments as to why this should be so, is the perfect example of this). So unless someone makes a truly spectacular gaffe in the near future, this is a non event.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2018, 19:03:50 »
As far as the grits are concerned, gun owners are criminals. Before we take your suggestion to the bank and believe this 'incredible admission', lets see what falls out of the gun control legislation they are going to hit us with.

I never said that they understood what their actions were saying to the public, nor that they meant it or even realized what they were saying.  ;)

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2018, 19:10:23 »
It's kind of hilarious how perspectives change depending on where you post.

Its almost like on the internet, its completely possible to post different things in different places.

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2018, 21:22:32 »
Its almost like on the internet, its completely possible to post different things in different places.
;)

I'd give you Milpoints but I already did today. :nod:
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Offline Altair

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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2018, 13:46:01 »
Well,  that was fast.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4342222/liberals-polls-canadians-trudeau-trump/
Quote
As the weather gets warmer, Canadians are also warming back up to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and the Liberals — with their approval rating jumping by five points this month.

According to an exclusive Ipsos poll for Global News, 55 per cent of Canadian respondents approve of Justin Trudeau’s government, up from 50 per cent in June.
And weed isn't even legal yet.
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Re: Federal Cabinet Shuffle July 2018
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2018, 14:11:27 »
It only matters if it turns into votes. He still has to come up with something other than "it's that other guy's fault".
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