Author Topic: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019  (Read 9368 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 240,360
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,828
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2019, 14:26:04 »
Slightly off topic. Every time I see a picture of the SNC lobby, it's being secured by RCMP. Even federal buildings use Commissionaires. What is so important that SNC pays for RCMP security? I'm sure it's allowed, if they pay full price. It just seems to be a waste of Canadian's resources.

The photos you're referring to of uniformed RCMP in the SNC office lobby are in fact uniformed members there as scene security to assist in the execution of search warrants. Quite the opposite to being hired by SNC Lavalin to guard their offices. When a search warrant is executed of a corporate complex it would not be at all unusual to have uniformed personnel on scene to control movement in and out and to prevent interference with or obstruction of the search. If it's RCMP, it's because it's an RCMP investigation. If it were a warrant by Montreal Police or Surete du Quebec, you would see their people there in uniform instead. I'm sure SNC would rather they not be there in such situations, but that's not their call to make. Rent-a-cop security versus executing a search warrant is admittedly a pretty subtle nuance, but I'd be happy to be of further help in understanding if any confusion remains.

And of course with that assumption cleared up for you, I'm sure you can sleep more easily on the rest of it.

(Edit to add: I posted this before Remius beefed up his reply with added detail; not my intention to double-tap a point already made)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 14:39:33 by Brihard »
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 120,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,568
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2019, 14:30:06 »
Cheers.

Edited my response for more detail. Thanks FJ.
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,001
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,096
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2019, 15:20:21 »
If SNC doesn't like it I'm sure they could always make some calls to the PMO to try and make the matter go away  ;D
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -7245.

  • "Some people will only like you if you fit inside their box. Don't be afraid to shove that box up their ass."
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 281,362
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,683
    • Army.ca
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2019, 15:28:15 »
The photos you're referring to of uniformed RCMP in the SNC office lobby are in fact uniformed members there as scene security to assist in the execution of search warrants. Quite the opposite to being hired by SNC Lavalin to guard their offices. When a search warrant is executed of a corporate complex it would not be at all unusual to have uniformed personnel on scene to control movement in and out and to prevent interference with or obstruction of the search. If it's RCMP, it's because it's an RCMP investigation. If it were a warrant by Montreal Police or Surete du Quebec, you would see their people there in uniform instead. I'm sure SNC would rather they not be there in such situations, but that's not their call to make. Rent-a-cop security versus executing a search warrant is admittedly a pretty subtle nuance, but I'd be happy to be of further help in understanding if any confusion remains.

And of course with that assumption cleared up for you, I'm sure you can sleep more easily on the rest of it.

(Edit to add: I posted this before Remius beefed up his reply with added detail; not my intention to double-tap a point already made)
Remius' explanation was perfect. Factual without condescension. Thanx.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline 211RadOp

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 26,443
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 895
  • Now is the tyme....damn missed again....Now is the
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2019, 15:37:40 »
PMO denies 'hostility' in Trudeau's interactions with Liberal MP

CBC News · Posted: Mar 09, 2019 12:34 PM ET | Last Updated: March 9

The Prime Minister's Office says there was "absolutely no hostility" from Justin Trudeau towards Liberal MP Celina Caesar-Chavannes, despite allegations she's made against him.

The Whitby, Ont., MP says she was met with anger and hostility from the prime minister after she informed him she would not be seeking re-election in October.

Caesar-Chavannes made the announcement last weekend, but informed Trudeau weeks earlier on Feb. 12.

It was around that time the negative encounters happened, the MP first told the Globe and Mail.

Because of Jody Wilson-Raybould's fresh resignation from cabinet, she told the Globe that Trudeau had asked her to wait for her own announcement and that he was worried about the optics of having two women of colour leave at the same time.

"He was yelling. He was yelling that I didn't appreciate him, that he'd given me so much," Caesar-Chavannes told that newspaper.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-celina-caesar-chavannes-hostility-1.5050129
“Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes." Jim Carrey
"Do unto others, then run." Benny Hill
"There's no better feeling in the world than a warm pizza box on your lap." Kevin James

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,001
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,096
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2019, 15:51:14 »
PMO denies 'hostility' in Trudeau's interactions with Liberal MP

CBC News · Posted: Mar 09, 2019 12:34 PM ET | Last Updated: March 9

The Prime Minister's Office says there was "absolutely no hostility" from Justin Trudeau towards Liberal MP Celina Caesar-Chavannes, despite allegations she's made against him.
//
"He was yelling. He was yelling that I didn't appreciate him, that he'd given me so much," Caesar-Chavannes told that newspaper.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-celina-caesar-chavannes-hostility-1.5050129




Quote
Trudeau says zero tolerance on misconduct toward women applies to him as well


In CBC Radio interview, PM says recent high-profile cases aren't about compliments taken the wrong way


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says women who come forward with complaints of sexual assault and harassment must be supported and believed.
//
And he's confident no one will be able to accuse him of the kinds of behaviour that have brought down several high-profile politicians this week.



Sadly I think the comment about him being able to get away with murder among his loyal base is true. I'm sure they would accuse the victim of being a climate-denier, Russian provocateur, oil industry supporter blah blah.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 16:01:10 by Jarnhamar »
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 120,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,568
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2019, 16:00:34 »

I would not classify getting upset and "yelling" as misconduct towards women.  Looks like he was maybe having a tantrum over her leaving.

If yelling and getting upset is misconduct the CAF is in real trouble...
Optio

Offline Target Up

    ........pull, patch, and score.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 226,930
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,869
  • that's how we roll in redneck land
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2019, 16:13:28 »
But mistreatment is in the eye of the mistreated, our government and universities everywhere tell us so.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,001
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,096
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2019, 16:45:33 »
I would not classify getting upset and "yelling" as misconduct towards women.  Looks like he was maybe having a tantrum over her leaving.

If yelling and getting upset is misconduct the CAF is in real trouble...

We both know the CAF is different than a civilian work place. Try going up to a woman at your civilian job and shouting at her to get her heels together then proceed to give her a blast of crap for some minor thing and see what happens. Guarantee if you're not fired you'll be nailed with harassment.  I doubt that's the extent that Trudeau pulled but yelling at someone and being hostile towards them (the victims words) in a civilian work place can very much create a hostile work environment and I would guess fall under workplace harassment- especially if there is a history or culture of it.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 120,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,568
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2019, 16:48:29 »
We both know the CAF is different than a civilian work place. Try going up to a woman at your civilian job and shouting at her to get her heels together then proceed to give her a blast of crap for some minor thing and see what happens. Guarantee if you're not fired you'll be nailed with harassment.  I doubt that's the extent that Trudeau pulled but yelling at someone and being hostile towards them (the victims words) in a civilian work place can very much create a hostile work environment and I would guess fall under workplace harassment- especially if there is a history or culture of it.

Sure but the link you provided was about sexual assault and harassment.  Not even close to what that MP has indicated.
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 302,001
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,096
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2019, 17:12:28 »
Sure but the link you provided was about sexual assault and harassment.  Not even close to what that MP has indicated.

True I probably could have emphasized the context I intended more. It's an example of how Trudeau tries to paint himself like this White knight above reproach.

He states it's not "about compliments taken the wrong way" but that's his whole defense every time he's called out on something isn't it? The woman in question just took things the wrong way.

Unlike the last accusations these aren't sexual in nature but the manner he doesn't hold himself to the standard he tries to apply for others remains the same.

As far as harassment goes, it wasn't sexual but getting fired for not doing what you're told after being badgered with meetings and phone calls to try and make you change your mind might fit the bill.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Remius

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 120,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,568
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2019, 17:23:56 »
True I probably could have emphasized the context I intended more. It's an example of how Trudeau tries to paint himself like this White knight above reproach.

He states it's not "about compliments taken the wrong way" but that's his whole defense every time he's called out on something isn't it? The woman in question just took things the wrong way.

Unlike the last accusations these aren't sexual in nature but the manner he doesn't hold himself to the standard he tries to apply for others remains the same.

As far as harassment goes, it wasn't sexual but getting fired for not doing what you're told after being badgered with meetings and phone calls to try and make you change your mind might fit the bill.

No argument from me about hypocrisy from the PM.
Optio

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 240,360
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,828
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2019, 17:25:40 »
At quick glance I can't find any policy applicable to MPs that would govern harassment between each other. As employers of their staffs, they are now covered by policy and fall under the Canada Labour Code (a recent change), but interactions between MPs doesn't, so far as I can tell, fall under any specific policy or code of practice that I could easily find. I only spent a few minutes on this, so if someone finds something I'm definitely curious.

Of course, Parliamentarians are subject to having to get picked for their jobs again every four years, so as a control measure there is at least that.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 218,565
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,252
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2019, 17:30:34 »
In my less-jaded days, I would have expressed my hope that those who represent us would reasonably be expected to behave in a civil manner...and those in the highest offices, a ‘Stately’ manner...

G2G

Offline Target Up

    ........pull, patch, and score.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 226,930
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,869
  • that's how we roll in redneck land
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2019, 18:25:41 »
In my less-jaded days, I would have expressed my hope that those who represent us would reasonably be expected to behave in a civil manner...and those in the highest offices, a ‘Stately’ manner...

G2G

That's why The Duke would have been a great president, he would always act in a Stately Wayne Manner.  I know, I know, trolling, another warning, but so worth it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 11:47:37 by Target Up »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -7245.

  • "Some people will only like you if you fit inside their box. Don't be afraid to shove that box up their ass."
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 281,362
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,683
    • Army.ca
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #90 on: March 11, 2019, 21:02:38 »
The Prime Minister has a massive problem with basic truth and what he thinks people's interpretation of it is.

Whether he flat out denies the truth or uses one of his non committal "she experienced it differently' type quotes, or doesn't fulfill his promises, it's still a lie.

He might as well just be quiet, he is not believable. I dont even believe him when he says 'good morning' before he delivers his next pile of pooh.

Useless and totally ignorable is his current status. Hes not leading. He's so far down the rabbit hole of damage control, hes consumed with it

Perhaps, if he'd known his stories would gain international investigative status, he wouldn't have been so forward.

If they let this play out in the open, by an indepedent committee, no holds barred, I'd accept whatever way it went.
However, if things go south on him and laws have been broken, I don't think we should settle for less than jail time.

His Laurentien Elite mentors have been strangely quiet. Are the elders going to let him wear this alone and try salvage things as outsiders after the blood is washed away?

"To be frank, politics is about wanting power, getting it, exercising it, and keeping it." ~ Jean Chretien

That's just me though. A bunch of random thoughts. I can't even get angry about their shenanigans any more. I'm getting numb to the atrocious state that our political system is in.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Cloud Cover

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 43,190
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,237
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #91 on: March 11, 2019, 21:59:59 »
I don't worry about it at all. This is the way things have been for as long as I can remember, doesn't really matter who the PM is, what brand of political party and what the scandal or success is. The country just chugs along from one thing to another, apparent disaster always right around the corner and then blissfully nothing happens, or if something happens no one cares.  The main lesson is that the only people you can count on are yourself and your family.   
Living the lean life

Offline Chris Pook

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 209,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,786
  • Wha daur say Mass in ma lug!
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2019, 11:15:28 »
I don't worry about it at all. This is the way things have been for as long as I can remember, doesn't really matter who the PM is, what brand of political party and what the scandal or success is. The country just chugs along from one thing to another, apparent disaster always right around the corner and then blissfully nothing happens, or if something happens no one cares.  The main lesson is that the only people you can count on are yourself and your family.

And that, I believe, is the great secret that politicians don't want the public to know, and that they don't tell themselves: they don't matter nearly as much as they wish they did and think they do. People go on about their lives even when the politicians screw up as badly as they are in Venezuela.
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

"If change isn’t allowed to be a process, it becomes an event." - Penny Mordaunt 10/10/2019

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 516,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,671
    • The job.
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2019, 11:34:10 »
I don't worry about it at all.

My standard for them is ( I believe ) a pretty low bar. Tell the truth. Obey the law. Keep the peace.

If they don't, there are elections every few years.

This is the way things have been for as long as I can remember, doesn't really matter who the PM is, what brand of political party and what the scandal or success is.

As far as party politics are concerned, I figure there's no Liberal or Conservative way to fix a sewer.  :)



Offline TimneyTime

  • Banned
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • 980
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 58
Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #94 on: March 22, 2019, 11:19:08 »
Those evil TFSAs. How dare the CPC encourage people to save on their own for their retirement instead of only contributing to the government approved CPP!

There's a cap on how much you can put into your TFSA.  It's $63,500 for this year, and it has been increasing.  You also have to be a Canadian Citizen for all the years you put into the TFSA.

The biggest advantage for TFSA is retail investors... meaning small time investors.  It helps them stay sheltered from the insane capital gains taxes in Canada.

This actually means that it's better for the little guy than the extremely rich, because the extremely rich aren't really going to benefit much from $63,500 in non taxable income.  Not that it isn't significant, and easier for them to fill out the maximums every year, but overall, as a percent of how much someone who makes $75k a year, and a percent of someone who makes $500,000 a year... that's where the real benefit is for retail investors, and the middle class.  I'd argue that it's better for the middle class guy trying to make money on the side, than it is for the extremely wealthy.