Author Topic: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019  (Read 6292 times)

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Offline Monsoon

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2019, 21:44:09 »
Pending: Gerald Butts to be named as Canada's new Ambassador to China. ;D
Close, but I suspect perhaps something more like: https://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2017/06/27/prime-minister-announces-new-ambassador-climate-change

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2019, 22:09:46 »
Romans fell on their swords.  Samurai sliced their stomachs open from left to right.
Exactly. So why would a samurai fall on their sword? Clearly things aren't what they seem  ;)


My guess is the truth is coming out shortly and he's distancing himself. I wonder if he will take the somber 'I made a mistake this is all on me I brought discredit' route , or,  some kind of 'I have a mental ilness/problem I'm seeking help' victim line.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 22:27:15 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Remius

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2019, 06:30:22 »

One of the pundits yesterday surmised that it would unshackle him and allow him to say more than if he stayed on as principle secretary.  Basically allowing him to better defend himself once JWR says what she has to say. 
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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2019, 08:55:47 »
Or...… PMJT's ratings slide points to not being re-elected;  Butts, being free to defend his 'unfairly sullied reputation,' can come back to Ottawa unscathed to continue running the Liberal party from behind the curtains.

        :Tin-Foil-Hat:       ;)
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2019, 09:18:38 »
Or...… PMJT's ratings slide points to not being re-elected;  Butts, being free to defend his 'unfairly sullied reputation,' can come back to Ottawa unscathed to continue running the Liberal party from behind the curtains.

        :Tin-Foil-Hat:       ;)

I think both Butts and even PMJT might be finished in the Liberal Party. This next week will the tale as the internal polls start to hit home and Liberal MPs/party bigwigs begin a game of sauve qui peut.

My assessment is that Butts made no friends amongst the sitting Liberal members of Parliament and therefore, has no allies. This directly calls into question the judgement and wisdom of the PM. It all depends now on what JWR has to say, when she speaks.

Offline Lumber

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2019, 09:46:24 »
The laymen have no damn what the "senior parliamentary secretary" is or does, let alone who Gerald Butts is. Only those actually interested in politics will actually give two whiffs about Gerald Butts.

Quebec will appreciate the PM trying to do a solid for Quebec, and continue to vote LPC.

The maritimes will kowtow, and vote LPC.

Ontario will be split. Some will care enough about this "scandal" to switch to voting CPC. Some will care about the scandal, but not enough to switch their votes. Finally, another, probably larger group, will not care at all and continue to vote LPC.

The prairies will continue to vote CPC.

BC may see a loss for the LPC, but likely it will go to the NDP.

So, some sliding for the LPC, possibly even a minority government if the NDP make enough gains in BC and the CPC make more gains than expected in Ontario, but overall the PM stays the PM.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2019, 10:01:58 »
Reading comments to articles from multiple media sources, it appears Butts is friendless.

Question Period should be interesting today on CPAC. Trudeau should show up today, but you never know if he will have hastily arranged meeting at some high school or college. If Trudeau does turn up, his replies (not answers)will be scripted, if he replies at all.

Got a feeling that JWR has by now been advised by her lawyer what she can state publicly, the Liberals know whats coming , and Butts resigned to get ahead of her presser which I expect to be very shortly.

Butts will probably still be around, unless there is a RCMP investigation, paid by the LPC.

Who is going to pay for his severance/moving costs? Amt? Remember his costs to move to Ottawa, some of which he had to pay back.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/butts-telford-moving-expenses-1.3774979


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Offline Remius

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2019, 10:28:26 »
The laymen have no damn what the "senior parliamentary secretary" is or does, let alone who Gerald Butts is. Only those actually interested in politics will actually give two whiffs about Gerald Butts.

Quebec will appreciate the PM trying to do a solid for Quebec, and continue to vote LPC.

The maritimes will kowtow, and vote LPC.

Ontario will be split. Some will care enough about this "scandal" to switch to voting CPC. Some will care about the scandal, but not enough to switch their votes. Finally, another, probably larger group, will not care at all and continue to vote LPC.

The prairies will continue to vote CPC.

BC may see a loss for the LPC, but likely it will go to the NDP.

So, some sliding for the LPC, possibly even a minority government if the NDP make enough gains in BC and the CPC make more gains than expected in Ontario, but overall the PM stays the PM.

Possibly.  But how did that work out for Stephen Harper when they managed the whole Duffy affair and his COS allegedly making a pay off?  most Canadians had no idea what the PM's COS did or who he was really.  But that scandal dogged them up until the election.

Canadians don't need to know who Gerald Butts is or what his job was.  They just need to be convinced that sunny ways was a lie and doing politics differently for PMJT is the same way as doing politics for Stephen Harper.  They just need to know that something bad was done and that JT isn't the knight in shining armour he pretends to be.  Three key resignations in a month with more to come I bet and a trial no one really cared about (Adm Normand now seemingly way more important in the grand context that will coincide with the election. 

I'm a centrist Lumber.  My vote can go either way and the Liberals are giving me every reason to lean away from them.  And I'm not the only one.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2019, 11:13:42 »
Another possibility is that people who were activated in the last election decide "Oh, screw it! Where's my beer?"

They then join the increasing number of the disengaged and leave politics to the partisans.  And develop an attitude seen in a number of "mature" societies of letting the politicians make whatever laws they like and cheerfully ignoring them.

It just doesn't matter.

And by the way, on JWR, I think that the best thing JWR can do is continue to say nothing if she wants to bring the greatest harm to Trudeau.  The longer she stays quiet, and the more speculation there is, the worse it is for Trudeau and Telford.  Before long Trudeau will be begging her to speak - if only to give him a solid target to punch.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 11:16:51 by Chris Pook »
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2019, 13:42:41 »
They just need to be convinced that sunny ways was a lie and doing politics differently for PMJT is the same way as doing politics for Stephen Harper. 

Or more accurately, it was the exact same Liberal Party BS that got Harper elected in the first place. Harper's government only really strayed into scandal towards the end and it was pretty tame stuff really. Duffy is a pretty good comparison because, although he acted unethically, Duffy never really broke any rules and/or laws.  By having his COS pay, whether directed, hinted or on his own accord, Harper didn't break any rules either. However, it was handled poorly which was the real problem. If they had come out and said straight up said Wright had loaned Duffy the money, it would have gone away quickly. The same for the Liberals, if they had just said, "We asked her if there was anything she could do, she said no." Problem would have gone away in a week.

However, this is multiple ethics scandals/violations all poorly handled in less than 1 mandate. Almost all of Trudeau's issue have pointed to either naivety/stupidity/or complete disregard for rules. With a couple exceptions, most of Harper's issues were policies people disagreed with, typical "hidden agenda" BS or people with terrible personalities like Julian Fantino.

Offline Lumber

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2019, 14:05:58 »
However, this is multiple ethics scandals/violations all poorly handled in less than 1 mandate. Almost all of Trudeau's issue have pointed to either naivety/stupidity/or complete disregard for rules. With a couple exceptions, most of Harper's issues were policies people disagreed with, typical "hidden agenda" BS or people with terrible personalities like Julian Fantino.

While I still don't think this is Sponsorship Scandal level, I do think it is more apt to compare the SNC-Lavalin debauchery to the Sponsorship Scandal than to the Duffy affair.

Harper and the CPC got voted out because of their policies and personalities, not because of any one particular scandal.

I actually kind of liked Harper, and I'm rather enjoying some of his current work, but I was really starting to get uncomfortable with having the CPC in power. Now if only Pierre Poilievre would go away....
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Offline Jed

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2019, 14:41:28 »
The laymen have no damn what the "senior parliamentary secretary" is or does, let alone who Gerald Butts is. Only those actually interested in politics will actually give two whiffs about Gerald Butts.

Quebec will appreciate the PM trying to do a solid for Quebec, and continue to vote LPC.

The maritimes will kowtow, and vote LPC.

Ontario will be split. Some will care enough about this "scandal" to switch to voting CPC. Some will care about the scandal, but not enough to switch their votes. Finally, another, probably larger group, will not care at all and continue to vote LPC.

The prairies will continue to vote CPC.

BC may see a loss for the LPC, but likely it will go to the NDP.

So, some sliding for the LPC, possibly even a minority government if the NDP make enough gains in BC and the CPC make more gains than expected in Ontario, but overall the PM stays the PM.


And the Quebec / Ontario Elitist mafia will rise above the people and Western Canada will say , what the hay, business as usual? I don't think so.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2019, 12:03:22 »
Of course he does. Believe victims, except when he's the aggressor.

PMO denies Trudeau was hostile to Liberal MP

OTTAWA - A spokesman for the prime minister's office says Justin Trudeau had "emotional" conversations with Liberal MP Celina Caesar-Chavannes, but denies her claims the encounters were "hostile" or that Trudeau yelled at her.

Caesar-Chavannes told the Globe and Mail in an interview Trudeau was angry when she told him on Feb. 12 of her plans to announce she was not reoffering in the October federal election.

She alleges he yelled at her in that conversation and that she responded by shouting back at him, and says the prime minister later apologized.

Caesar-Chavannes also detailed another encounter with Trudeau in the House of Commons a week later in which she describes him as acting hostile toward her.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/pmo-denies-trudeau-was-hostile-to-liberal-mp/ar-BBUzxmY


This calls for an apology to the...

*Spins wheel*

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2019, 13:40:17 »
No apology.

She just experienced things differently. :whistle:
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2019, 13:59:23 »
Could our Dear PM Sunny Ways be a narcissist? 😉
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2019, 15:32:45 »
The PM doesn’t get to decide how an MP interpreted his response to her. 

Rule #1 in Commumications:  it is the communicator’s responsibility to ensure the communicatee receives the message, tone and content as intended. 

His inability to properly convey his message, including his tone, is not her shortcoming—it is his.  Full stop.

G2G

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2019, 17:37:35 »
The PM doesn’t get to decide how an MP interpreted his response to her. 

Rule #1 in Commumications:  it is the communicator’s responsibility to ensure the communicatee receives the message, tone and content as intended. 

His inability to properly convey his message, including his tone, is not her shortcoming—it is his.  Full stop.

G2G

Please excuse my sarcasm. I thought the whistle emoji would have sufficed.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2019, 17:47:02 »
Please excuse my sarcasm. I thought the whistle emoji would have sufficed.

I was agreeing/reinforcing the thought.   ;)

Cheers
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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2019, 18:38:10 »
No apology.
In fact, the article quoted stated he later apologized.  It's all good.  Can we move on, now.  Nothing to see here, Mr. Norman. Move along.  Ms Wilson-Raybould, Ms Philpott, quit loitering.  Nothing to see....follow the Sunny Way, please.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Jed

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2019, 12:41:37 »
So the National Post has published an articled reporting that an international body is investigating SNC-Lavalin for bribery now. Great. Too bad Canada’s RCMP is so incapable of doing the job. What is the deal here anyway? Are they in the tank for the PM and the Liberal majority party or what?
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Offline QV

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2019, 13:00:53 »
Quote
An international body announced Monday it is monitoring allegations that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and his office attempted to politically interfere in the prosecution of SNC-Lavalin, which if true could put Canada in violation of a multilateral anti-bribery agreement.

The 36-country Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, which includes the United States, the United Kingdom, France and others said Monday it would “closely monitor” investigations into the SNC-Lavalin affair by the House of Commons justice committee and the federal ethics commissioner.

“The OECD Working Group on Bribery is encouraged by these processes, and notes that the Canadian authorities stress that they are transparent and independent,” a statement reads. “The Working Group recognizes Canada’s willingness to keep it fully informed of developments in the proceedings, including at its next meeting in June 2019.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/oecd-announces-it-is-monitoring-snc-lavalin-scandal-raising-prospect-canada-has-violated-international-anti-bribery-agreement

I wonder, was this all worth it for the LPC?

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2019, 13:05:57 »
I don't believe we know if the RCMP is investigating the topic (political interference) here or not. The RCMP is investigating SNC for other matters.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/snc-lavalin-still-under-investigation-from-rcmp-in-quebec-1.5016315

Lavalin's legal troubles aren't limited to charges from federal authorities, as the RCMP is working with prosecutors in Quebec in an investigation into a bridge renovation project.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2019, 14:06:14 »
Slightly off topic. Every time I see a picture of the SNC lobby, it's being secured by RCMP. Even federal buildings use Commissionaires. What is so important that SNC pays for RCMP security? I'm sure it's allowed, if they pay full price. It just seems to be a waste of Canadian's resources.

If we can send RCMP out as rent-a-cops and string them along the border, 24/7, as escorts for illegal aliens, do we really require all that we have?

What other priorities and investigations are being hampered by renting out our police.

Is it normal to do something like this? I know our municipal guys do it, but they are on overtime and not on regular duty. I wonder if it's the same here.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Remius

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2019, 14:14:12 »
Slightly off topic. Every time I see a picture of the SNC lobby, it's being secured by RCMP. Even federal buildings use Commissionaires. What is so important that SNC pays for RCMP security? I'm sure it's allowed, if they pay full price. It just seems to be a waste of Canadian's resources.

If we can send RCMP out as rent-a-cops and string them along the border, 24/7, as escorts for illegal aliens, do we really require all that we have?

What other priorities and investigations are being hampered by renting out our police.

Is it normal to do something like this? I know our municipal guys do it, but they are on overtime and not on regular duty. I wonder if it's the same here.

If you are referring to these photos:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/snc-lavalin-hit-with-1-65-billion-class-action-lawsuit-1.807441

That is when they were raided by the RCMP.  Notice the private security at the back on the right.

No it is not normal for the RCMP to be rent a cops for organisations like this. And certainly not in Montreal where the city police are more likely than not to do paid duty gigs for things like concerts, hockey games and the occasional Costco traffic duty on saturdays.

The RCMP have guidelines on when they can get Extra Duty Pay.  What you are seeing in those pics is not one of them unless those officers worked over lunch, were brought in from somewhere else or worked beyond their normal schedule.  There are other times as well where EDP would be approved but rest assured that RCMP officers are not acting as commissionaires for SNC.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 14:29:17 by Remius »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: The Prime Minister and the PMO - 2019
« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2019, 14:22:40 »
Cheers.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.