Author Topic: Run Up to Election 2019  (Read 37549 times)

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #250 on: August 23, 2019, 18:44:01 »
>Scheer now has to explain or not as to why he isn't marching.

Pride isn't an event to exclusively commemorate SSM.  Some gay people don't want to be involved in it any more.   Must they explain themselves, or have enough people explained enough times to enough other people that there are aspects which some do not care to be involved with or to witness?
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #251 on: August 23, 2019, 19:28:09 »
So long as the Grits can characterize Scheer as stealthily intolerant, and he chooses not to participate in an event more for his personal reasons than a strategically savvy purpose to de-power his opponents, they’ll be winning the ‘perception is reality game’...he could have entirely deflated their efforts by participating and it wouldn’t have cost him anything...would any of the Reform/Alliance/CPC voters really swing to Mad Max if Scheer had walked in the parade with the other National leaders? ???  Dying on a hill so far away from the front seems detached from the end goal...

:2c:

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G2G
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 19:34:10 by Good2Golf »

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #252 on: August 23, 2019, 20:14:29 »
I just watched an interview on CBC. The host kept trying to draw the guest in with that question. What about Scheers personal belief, not the party's. Asked it 3 or 4 times. The guest dismantled him every time. The gay guest. The guest also made a number of very salient points about the reasoning and attempt the liberals made in trying to smear Scheer with this.

I don't see this lasting the weekend.

On the other hand, this is pretty ******* low. Even for the grits. I have no doubt at all that they will get even lower, but I just can't fathom anything more distasteful and despicable for electioneering, from the liberals, even though they will certainly try.

It is just a matter of time and desperation before they get so far into the sewer that even their support will be disgusted with their foulness. This is a party with no good record. They have nothing they can campaign on. Their term is bereft of anything they can crow about. All they have are more promises that will be ignored after 22 October and  smear, scandal and false narrative. This party hasn't told the truth in four years. They aren't going to start now.
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #253 on: August 23, 2019, 20:23:09 »
So long as the Grits can characterize Scheer as stealthily intolerant, and he chooses not to participate in an event more for his personal reasons than a strategically savvy purpose to de-power his opponents, they’ll be winning the ‘perception is reality game’...he could have entirely deflated their efforts by participating and it wouldn’t have cost him anything...would any of the Reform/Alliance/CPC voters really swing to Mad Max if Scheer had walked in the parade with the other National leaders? ???  Dying on a hill so far away from the front seems detached from the end goal...

:2c:

Regards
G2G

Exactly what is happening here. 

He probably has no votes to gain by doing it but he could deflate the whole attack.  I wonder if there was a calculation at potential lost votes if he did go?  They might not park their votes with mad max but they might not show up. 
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #254 on: August 23, 2019, 20:34:19 »
Most people I talk to could care less about this latest ploy. It's a shoulder shug and "Meh, it's liberals. What do you expect". Stuff like this doesn't stick around. It's a drive by. Especially during an election. Oh wait, it hasn't been called yet has it? I'm sure there's some that don't agree, but I don't think it has the legs, or votes, they think it does.

Just my opinion among the rest here.
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What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #255 on: August 23, 2019, 20:45:00 »
>Scheer now has to explain or not as to why he isn't marching.

Pride isn't an event to exclusively commemorate SSM.  Some gay people don't want to be involved in it any more.   Must they explain themselves, or have enough people explained enough times to enough other people that there are aspects which some do not care to be involved with or to witness?

I hear you Brad.  I’m not arguing the merits of pride parades.  I’m not against them or gay rights.  People can go or not go, support or not support.  But like it or not they are political and they are used to that end. when the only federal leader who does not go and refuses to explain his position, it’s  been mostly awkward avoidance and talking points it plays right I to the “secret agenda” or “intolerance” narrative.  Doug Ford went to one.  Hard to label him as intolerant to the LGBTQ community after that. 
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Offline mariomike

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« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 21:29:16 by mariomike »

Offline Remius

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #258 on: August 23, 2019, 21:39:11 »
I lived at Bay and Bloor for a year.  I saw it first hand.

What has been seen, cannot be unseen.  :)

Not that there's anything wrong with it, of course.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #259 on: August 23, 2019, 23:21:30 »
>when the only federal leader who does not go and refuses to explain his position, it’s  been mostly awkward avoidance and talking points it plays right I to the “secret agenda” or “intolerance” narrative.

If this is all just people who wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances, it hardly matters.  Try to imagine the voter who is waiting to switch from not-CPC to CPC on the basis of whether or not the leader attends a Pride event.  What kind of person is that?  How many of them are there?

This is about making Scheer bend the knee.  Does kowtowing to Goodale's gambit benefit Scheer?  Suppose Scheer attends.  Possible responses from the critics:
1) Thank you, Andrew! Way to go.
2) Oh, he doesn't really mean it.  He's just doing this because Goodale called him out.

I don't think there's a scenario in which Scheer wins, but there is a scenario in which he looks weak and willing to pander.
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"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.

Offline Tcm621

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #260 on: August 24, 2019, 01:12:36 »
What Pride parade could Scheer go to where he wouldn't be attacked (verbally if not physically), maybe be milkshaked or worse. That is if they let him in. Pride hasn't been inclusive in a number of years banning police and military from the events as well as supporting anti-Semitic BDS groups and BLM movements.

Offline FSTO

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #261 on: August 24, 2019, 07:20:14 »
>when the only federal leader who does not go and refuses to explain his position, it’s  been mostly awkward avoidance and talking points it plays right I to the “secret agenda” or “intolerance” narrative.

If this is all just people who wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances, it hardly matters.  Try to imagine the voter who is waiting to switch from not-CPC to CPC on the basis of whether or not the leader attends a Pride event.  What kind of person is that?  How many of them are there?

This is about making Scheer bend the knee.  Does kowtowing to Goodale's gambit benefit Scheer?  Suppose Scheer attends.  Possible responses from the critics:
1) Thank you, Andrew! Way to go.
2) Oh, he doesn't really mean it.  He's just doing this because Goodale called him out.

I don't think there's a scenario in which Scheer wins, but there is a scenario in which he looks weak and willing to pander.

An out for Scheer is for one of the Pride Event organizations to actually invite him to a parade. Morden Manitoba had a pride parade this year, that town is in the Mennonite heartland of the Red River. That would be a safe space for him. (pun intended)

Edit to add: The Ottawa Pride Committee announced that they would not invite Scheer to their event. So he can always say he'll go if invited.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2019, 09:13:38 by FSTO »

Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #262 on: August 24, 2019, 08:53:49 »
>when the only federal leader who does not go and refuses to explain his position, it’s  been mostly awkward avoidance and talking points it plays right I to the “secret agenda” or “intolerance” narrative.

If this is all just people who wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances, it hardly matters.  Try to imagine the voter who is waiting to switch from not-CPC to CPC on the basis of whether or not the leader attends a Pride event.  What kind of person is that?  How many of them are there?

This is about making Scheer bend the knee.  Does kowtowing to Goodale's gambit benefit Scheer?  Suppose Scheer attends.  Possible responses from the critics:
1) Thank you, Andrew! Way to go.
2) Oh, he doesn't really mean it.  He's just doing this because Goodale called him out.

I don't think there's a scenario in which Scheer wins, but there is a scenario in which he looks weak and willing to pander.

Of course it’s a no win scenario.  Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. 
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #263 on: August 24, 2019, 09:21:13 »
Of course it’s a no win scenario.  Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

...but then again, politics isn’t ever a 100% win scenario either, just a ‘win enough’ scenario. :nod:

Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #264 on: August 24, 2019, 09:31:13 »

I can’t be 100% sure but there is a method to this.  The LPC timing for this was pretty good.  Hit the CPC during Pride week.  CPC goes on the defensive.  Trudeau goes to the G7, will look statesman like there, make announcements etc.  All good PR and will contrast with Trump.  So a week of bad press for Scheer and Trudeau gets a freebie PR event with the G7. 

Anyone want to put money that the LPC might keep up with the momentum by launching another attack after the G7. 

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Offline mariomike

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #265 on: August 24, 2019, 09:56:06 »
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

Showing up at parades in this town was usually simple enough for politicians.

eg: At the recent Raptors parade, the PM and mayor were cheered.

Doug, not so much,
https://www.blogto.com/sports_play/2019/06/doug-ford-booed-toronto-raptors/


Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #266 on: August 27, 2019, 06:24:47 »
Neil MacDonald sums up the coming election quite well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/election-leaders-1.5260586
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #267 on: August 27, 2019, 08:32:43 »
Neil MacDonald sums up the coming election quite well.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/election-leaders-1.5260586
From the article: 
"In a sense, though, the sign does nicely capture the current election campaign – a contest of angry resentment, invective, ad hominem hurling and spewing."

Is MacDonald reflecting on the "Trudeau Sucks" sign in Manotick, or this site's Politics 'discussions'?   :pop:


Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #268 on: August 27, 2019, 08:49:14 »
Maybe one is a bellwether for another?  But which one...
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Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #269 on: August 27, 2019, 10:55:25 »

If anyone is interested in comparing promises assessed between this government and the former one.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-government-s-353-pre-election-promises-assessed-in-new-book-1.4564103

I found the transactional vs transformational difference interesting.

Also this line was telling:

Overall, governments in Canada have good records when it comes to keeping promises, Petry said. Polls, on the other hand, have long shown that most Canadians think politicians are liars, even though voters have generally done a poor job keeping tabs on party pledges.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #270 on: August 29, 2019, 17:51:06 »
Well this is still in the news.

Why Scheer waited this long to respond and now keeping it it in the media is beyond understanding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew-scheer-social-controversy-conservative-1.5264360


Just watched Rachel Curran comment on this.  She is a staunch Harper conservative pundit and even she criticized how Scheer and his team are handling this...
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #271 on: August 29, 2019, 18:15:25 »
Well this is still in the news.

Why Scheer waited this long to respond and now keeping it it in the media is beyond understanding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/andrew-scheer-social-controversy-conservative-1.5264360


Just watched Rachel Curran comment on this.  She is a staunch Harper conservative pundit and even she criticized how Scheer and his team are handling this...

I'm afraid Scheer is trying to run a razor's edge between a significant special interest group within the party that favors pro-life and wants the issue before parliament, and an equally significant group (mostly in Quebec) that are pro choice and want it kept off the floor.

His position is that the government will not bring it to the floor for either debate or a vote BUT he won't stand against a private member's bill and a free vote. (Which I would hope would go down to defeat)

My riding is changing it's long term Conservative member to a relatively young lady who expresses great devotion to her faith and touts her pro-life stance. I've already fired off a missive saying that displeases me, however, I think her enablers in the riding association are of the same ilk as she is. Quite frankly, if it wasn't for the fact that I think Trudeau is a mor@n and that the liberal party machinery is corrupt I'd be seriously considering changing my vote here.

There's not much room anymore for fiscal conservative/socially liberal centrists anymore.

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Offline FSTO

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #272 on: August 29, 2019, 18:24:46 »
I'm planning to put three signs on my lawn here in Ottawa. A Green, NDP and Conservative just to show my displeasure at the Liberals. My riding is yellow dog Liberal so it won't really make any difference except getting the neighbours talking.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #273 on: August 29, 2019, 18:31:58 »
What do you suppose would happen if you put a pro-life or no same-sex marriage sign on your lawn?

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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Run Up to Election 2019
« Reply #274 on: August 29, 2019, 18:55:24 »
The Liberals used the "he'll rescind abortion laws" and "he'll overturn gay marriage" in several elections won by Mr Harper. Neither of those things happened. At what point is this crying wolf no more than  :deadhorse: ?
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