Poll

Is there life after death?

No- when the brain is dead so is the person and there are no other feelings or consciousness active.
4 (30.8%)
Yes- there must be something because there is growing anecdotal evidence.
3 (23.1%)
Yes- the spirit lives on.
4 (30.8%)
Yes- "Walkers" are among us.
2 (15.4%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Voting closes: August 09, 2019, 22:36:54

Author Topic: Life After Death (medical/scientific discussion)  (Read 2354 times)

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Offline Cloud Cover

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Life After Death (medical/scientific discussion)
« on: May 02, 2019, 21:33:57 »
Interesting article in the National Post: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/life-after-life-does-consciousness-continue-after-our-brain-dies

The conventional, objective scientific and medical opinion is that when the brain dies, the conscious person dies. With better record keeping and sharing of information, there are instances where people who are scientifically dead but have somehow recovered. What is more, some of them report actually being somewhat conscious during resuscitation and other emergency procedures even though they are flatline for many minutes.

Although it sounds weird and somewhat hokey, some neuroscientists in the AWARE and AWAREII study are positing that conscious feelings - like guilt - are perhaps not necessarily associated wholly with near chemical and electrical brain function but also might include some other -as yet unidentified- function that may be "out of body". They say yes, there are neuro chemical actions associated with perceptions and experiences which terminate with brain death, but is there also something else that is "conscious" at least for a few minutes after brain death occurs?






« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 11:37:06 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 21:45:03 »
What is more, some of them report actually being somewhat conscious during resuscitation and other emergency procedures even though they are flatline for many minutes.

Like when they talk about that "bright white light".

Maybe it was the paramedics shining a penlight in their eyes?


Offline Journeyman

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2019, 10:07:15 »
Quote
... brain is dead so is the person and there are no other feelings...
Reminds me of a particular Merit Board, back when I was in NDHQ.    ;)

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2019, 19:47:06 »
I believe the soul lives on.. surprise! Lol

But these anecdotal stories of life after death, I think have more in common with a childs imagination trying to process a traumatic event.. then actual proof of anything.

It is a huge existential crisis for many, facing their mortality. So to think the brain "breaks" and creates a scenario to alleviate that crisis to me.. is far more realistic.

Now having said all that, those who have gone through such situations adamantly and vociferously proclaim that such things did happen and does prove whatever point they wish it to prove... but when Muslims claim they see Muhammad, Christians claim to see Jesus and Jewish people claim they see Moses or what have you and so on and so forth for other religions. It starts to complicate the soundness of the claims, because to many variations in the stories exist.. I would think the result would be far more universal.

I do not think it is anyones place to call people out on their near death or after life experience, unless and of course they are trying to monetize it. But I think in 99% of cases it is an indicator of an underlying issues.. same way some people use religion as a crutch to get through bad times instead of properly putting it away (yes religion can help to put it away, but often it is used to just cover it up).

Any rate thats were I sit... I didn't see an option that made my point.

The after life exists, heaven and God both exists, but we believe on faith.

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Offline stoker dave

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2019, 07:53:29 »
There have been lately a number of excellent books that clearly and factually state that there is no god, no afterlife, no nothing.  We are born, we live, we die. 

Religion in general fails "the three P" test:  it is without precedent, it is without proof and it is without parallel. 

We live in a galaxy of about 200 billion stars.  There are something like 200 billion known galaxies.  To suggest that some omniscient, all powerful being (if such a being existed) took any interest in our lives is fanciful.

Make the most of what you have.  Cherish your friends.  Be kind.  You don't need folk tales and mythology to tell you that is right and proper. 

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2019, 10:21:02 »
Dave,

If I read the original article correctly, the suggestion was consciousness, aliveness, could not be fully explained by biological brain function. The article did not go onto state that religion had to be only possible reason.

I am of the opinion that the Universe is a big and complex thing that we don't even begin to understand. So- who knows?

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2019, 15:29:01 »
We'll just have to wait and see when the lights go out.

The one truth is that that those lights will go out. The rest is speculation.

I do know, for myself anyway, things are easier to accept and parse, now that I've pretty well given up on religion. I don't feel the need to be constricted or restrained by something that was written thousands of years ago. My upbringing and family values set my moral compass and continue to do so. My background wasn't especially religious, but at the age of twelve, I attended Temple, Salvation Army, United, Catholic, Anglican and Baptist churches. My mother had one rule at the time and that was to attend church. Didn't care which one, but I had to go. I decided to use that to my advantage. It gave me a pretty well rounded religious education. Enough so, that I was able to decide what direction to take.

I have faith, just not a religious one.

If there is an afterlife, I'll have to deal with it (or not) when it comes. In the meantime, I don't feel encumbered by religious values to meet a certain goal or live my life according to some unproven omnipotent instruction.

Perhaps there is something there or maybe the visions and conditions are the mass synapse firings of the dying brain. Kinda like seeing stars when the brain is injured.

Whatever it is, if it exists, will exist no matter what religious values a person holds. I think it will be physical and metaphysical, if it happens.

I do remember years ago, there was some scientific study that claimed at the moment of death, there was an ever so slight shift downwards in the weight of the body. Very minuscule. The amount appeared to be in the same general measurement, no matter who the body had been or condition. The speculation, at the time, was that perhaps it was the soul. I don't know if anything ever came of it, I never heard much after the original study.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2019, 19:03:19 »
"do you believe in God?"..... "no, I believe in ammunition."
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Offline stoker dave

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2019, 08:51:36 »

I do remember years ago, there was some scientific study that claimed at the moment of death, there was an ever so slight shift downwards in the weight of the body. Very minuscule. The amount appeared to be in the same general measurement, no matter who the body had been or condition. The speculation, at the time, was that perhaps it was the soul. I don't know if anything ever came of it, I never heard much after the original study.

Sorry but that is an urban legend.  There is no scientific data to support this.

Without trying to take this discussion further off track, the relationship between mass and energy is well established (you may be familiar with Einstein's famous E = mcc).  Any change in mass would result in an emission of energy.  No such energy has ever been detected. 

Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: Life After Death
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2019, 11:18:23 »
It makes sense that for a minute amount of time a human might be aware they've indeed died (or are in the process of), since the first method of determining death is when the heart stops beating. (Not all dying/deceased individuals are connected to machines specifically measuring brain activity.)  It's been proven countless times that there can still be brain activity and the possibility of some form of awareness until all electrical impulses in the brain have completely ceased. It's a sobering thought, really.

Having been present during the passing of an individual, it's interesting hearing the accounts from various ICU medical staff (some will openly talk about their experiences and opinions when asked, and/or if audiences are receptive to the information they'll freely discuss), and what their thoughts/feelings are about the entire process of death.



 
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