Author Topic: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong  (Read 5023 times)

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Offline tomahawk6

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Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2019, 09:58:37 »

Offline Spencer100

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2019, 10:07:24 »
If it hits the fan......what do we do about the 100,000's of Canadians living there?

I wonder if the gov even has a plan or gamed this?

Offline Remius

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2019, 10:23:24 »
300,000 to be exact.

I'm sure they will be fine if they stay away from the protests.  China wants to end the unrest, not deal with foreigners who might be nearby. 

The big worry should be about the numbers that are going to pack up and leave and return or move to Canada and the impact on the economy.

 https://globalnews.ca/news/5388549/hong-kong-protests-bc-expats/
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 10:25:59 by Remius »
Optio

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2019, 10:24:51 »
300,000 to be exact.

I'm sure they will be fine if they stay away from the protests.  China wants to end the unrest, not deal with foreigners who might be nearby.
Exactly that’s why I question the use of the word invasion.


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Offline Remius

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2019, 10:28:27 »
Exactly that’s why I question the use of the word invasion.


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Police action would be more accurate I guess.  I bet the Chinese security forces are bigger than our military by several factors.  So it might seem like an invasion.  Especially if they are brought in from outside the Hong Kong area.
Optio

Offline Spencer100

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2019, 10:40:57 »
But if got really ugly fast?  The thousands heading to the airport.  The cries for help at the embassies.  Canada could do nothing. 

Offline Dimsum

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2019, 11:26:31 »
But if got really ugly fast?  The thousands heading to the airport.  The cries for help at the embassies.  Canada could do nothing.

Not to mention the backlash online from some parts of the population that they're just "Canadians of convenience".   ::) 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Spencer100

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2019, 12:20:15 »
Yup!  I was going to say something about that too.

Xi is really pushing on all fronts.  South China Sea, HK, Trade with the US (trump is really helping on that one)


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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2019, 12:37:24 »
Guys, guys, guys -- not to worry, they're available to help out if needed, according to CHN's Communist Party media
Quote
China's Defense Ministry said on Wednesday that the military is following closely the recent situation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), citing a law that allows the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA)'s Hong Kong Garrison to conduct public security missions after the local government makes a request to the central government.

"We have been paying close attention to the developments in Hong Kong, especially after riots on Sunday when radical forces besieged the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in HKSAR," Wu Qian, spokesperson of China's Ministry of National Defense, told a media briefing on Wednesday.

Wu said that radical demonstrators have challenged the authority of the central government and touched the bottom line of the "one country, two systems," which is absolutely intolerable.

Tarnishing the "Pearl of the Orient" [which refers to Hong Kong] is not allowed, Wu said. 

Responding to a question on how to deal with Hong Kong secessionist forces, Wu cited the Law of the People's Republic of China on the Garrisoning of the HKSAR, which stipulates that the HKSAR government could request the central government to allow the PLA garrison in Hong Kong to maintain social order and disaster relief when necessary.

Wu's remarks came amid rumors claiming that a number of office buildings will be guarded by the Chinese PLA's Hong Kong Garrison. Those offices include the Liaison Office of the Central People's Government in the HKSAR and the Chief Executive's Office and the Legislative Council Complex.

The HKSAR government dismissed the rumors on Tuesday, saying they were "totally unfounded."
Nothing to see here, either
Quote
The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Garrison in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region conducted joint patrol exercises featuring both ground, naval and aerial forces on June 26, the PLA Daily reported on Tuesday.

The exercises were carried out in the sea and air spaces near Hong Kong, with the goal of examining the troops' combat capabilities in terms of emergency response and joint operations, the report said.

Netizens said the stationed PLA Hong Kong Garrison is not a formality, and the exercises proved just that.

The PLA Hong Kong Garrison is responsible for preparing against and resisting aggression, safeguarding the security of Hong Kong, carrying out defense duties, administering military facilities and handling foreign-related military affairs, reads the Law of the People's Republic of China on Garrisoning the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region.

The garrison held a three-day open day event on Saturday in celebration of the 22nd anniversary of the city's return to China, with PLA soldiers conducting exercises in combat tactics and various firearms including rifles and machine guns going on display ...
In the meantime, beware fake news
Quote
Videos falsely claiming to show a Chinese military crackdown against pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong have flooded social media over the past week, according to an AFP investigation that has debunked multiple posts.

The videos, which have been viewed millions of times, have compounded fears about China's potential intervention into a two-month crisis that has seen increasingly violent confrontations between protesters and Hong Kong's police.

Some of the false posts appeared shortly after a Chinese defence ministry spokesman last week highlighted during a press conference a law that allows troops to be deployed across Hong Kong at the request of the city's government ...
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Offline Brihard

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2019, 12:38:27 »
But if got really ugly fast?  The thousands heading to the airport.  The cries for help at the embassies.  Canada could do nothing.

A consideration: China doesn’t recognize dual citizenship. I don’t know what the practical consequences of that would be, though.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2019, 12:42:32 »
Xi is really pushing on all fronts.  South China Sea, HK, Trade with the US (trump is really helping on that one)
I would say that Xi is pushing the South China Sea claims.  Hong Kong and trade are more responses -- HK protesters escalating from being against the mainland extradition treaty to anti-HK gov't and PRC;  trade is in response to Trump as well as Trudeau's publicly criticizing PRC's policies.

Any similarities with US/Iran policies?  Bolton, with a known hate-on for Iran comes on board;  Trump's "policies" tend to be whoever talks to him last;  suddenly Iran = Mordor, Iran starts striking back;  Fox & Friends: "See? Told you they were evil."


Cornered animals have a tendency to bite.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 12:49:28 by Journeyman »

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2019, 12:44:21 »
PRC troops have gathered on the border to invade Hong Kong.

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/chinese-forces-gathering-at-hong-kong-border-white-house-officials-monitoring-escalation/news-story/82621253f4c093c69834e041713ab34d
China already has a few troops troops in the city
Quote
… The Army brigade of the Hong Kong Garrison is estimated to contain three Motorised Infantry battalions, an Armoured Infantry battalion equipped with Type 92B 6×6 armoured personnel carriers (APC), an Engineer and Chemical battalion, a Special Forces battalion, a Motor Transport company and an Air Defence battalion equipped with the HQ-6A weapon system.

It is unclear how many Special Forces personnel are stationed in Hong Kong, but the figure could be around 120. Anti-terrorism duties are one of their key missions, despite the fact that the territory’s law says the first responsibility to deal with a counter-terrorism incident rests with the Hong Kong Police ...
... so any "invasion" could also happen "Crimea style" from the inside out.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2019, 14:36:42 »
What if China abducts some Canadian citizens in Hong Kong into PRC, both for specific reasons involving the individuals and to put more pressure on us regarding Meng Wanzhou?

Mark
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2019, 16:54:42 »
The Hong Kong situation is deliciously or hideously (take your pick) complex. From China's point of view, there are, simply, no good choices: anything and everything they will do or even just want to do will be wrong.

HK is one of the world's financial hubs. Hundreds of billions of dollars (cash, merchandise, futures, you name it) pass through there every day ~ HK matters more than all of Canada in that regard

The business of HK is business. The Hang Seng index (stocks and bonds) is tanking; billions and billions of dollars, yen, euros and so on are being lost, day after day.

The demonstrations have stretched the HK police past the breaking point. The force is 30,000+ strong for a city of 7.5 million. Large, but it is a complex place to police and some parts of the force are not available for routine duties, even in dire emergencies like Force 10 typhoons.

China needs a calm, working Hong Kong for a whole host of reasons including Taiwan.

If, and it's a Huge IF, Taiwan can be persuaded that "one country, two systems" can work and that China can be trusted, then peaceful reunification remains on the table; if China is seen to be subverting HK's (very limited) "independence" then the only way to get Taiwan back is to invade, with uncomfortable, because they are unknown, consequences.

Some Chinese officials are convinced that there must be some foreign interference/instigation in these demonstrations ... I am nearly 100% sure that there is some covert, indirect, foreign support for some of the organizers: from Taiwan, Japan, Singapore and even Australia. I sincerely doubt that the Americans are smart enough subtle enough to work, sub rosa, in HK; the Australians and even the Brits, maybe, maybe even the Canadians, but not the Americans. But what I think doesn't matter, some Chinese officials think John Bolton is behind this.

The HK police force needs some help. The PLA is the worst possible sort of help ... but what else is there?

Carrie Lam has failed, miserably, but I cannot see how Beijing can replace her without losing face ... and HK or not, this is China, face matters, immensely. If you don't grasp that then you cannot ever hope to understand what's going on.

There is only one good course open: the anti-Carrie Lam faction ~ which is at least 35% of HK, maybe 75% right now ~ needs to back away, for a while. They need to give the police time to rest and recuperate and reconsider ... otherwise, the PLA will, most likely, have to go on the streets and that will be a disaster. The young leaders of what is, now, an independence movement don't want to do that because it would look like surrender. It wouldn't be but I doubt they can or will see it that way. Tempers are too high, on all sides. The people are angry at the authorities; the police are getting angry at the protesters and at a government which they think is wishy-washy because it tries to apologize when, inevitably, the police are less than perfect. The Chinese government is confused and, frankly, terrified and has too many balls in the air, right now.

Singapore is making hay ~ money is pouring in. Ditto Sydney. Even London is doing better, despite the Brexit.

As for Canada ... I spent a few minutes this morning with an old friend and mentor. He's a HK native whose judgement is always sound and who has extensive contacts in the Canada-HK community. He says that thousands, likely tens of thousands of Canadians who live in HK are packing their bags right now. What will that mean for Canada? We will get thousands of highly skilled (mostly business-oriented) people with large cash reserves; they are amongst the most productive people on earth; Canadians, by and large, are amongst the least productive people in the OECD.

My  :2c:   
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Offline Spencer100

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2019, 17:10:47 »
ER Campbell

Great summary of the news.  Thanks.  Well some of that sounds good for Canada.  It does not sound great for the world.   I have way thought HK was a great thing for China.  We had all my business contracts and banking with China run though HK.  I have always hoped that the HK example would help to change China (like the rule of law) for the better not the other way around.

Is China being moved to some breaking point?   Trump and US on trade, Business and economic growth is moving in the wrong direction, the Uyghars, Iran pushing for help, Taiwan seeing what is happening and not liking it.  The SCS situation. Crackdown on internet and media, The social credit system.  I doesn't seem like happy times

 

Offline Dimsum

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2019, 17:12:06 »
Circumstances aren't the same, but HK has gone through this before.  It was also the reason for one of the emigration waves from HK in the 70s and onwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_1967_leftist_riots
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline MilEME09

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2019, 18:19:50 »
Part of the problem for China too is social media and reporters, news travels much faster these days, while they may be able to censor things internally, external not so much. This isn't the 1980's another tiananmen square would greatly damage China in the eyes of the world, and would solidify Taiwan that Beijing will try to take it by force.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2019, 21:14:37 »
They will probably close down the internet and the airspace to civilian traffic before moving in.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2019, 22:34:40 »
Remember China suppressed dissent in Tibet and their muslim population so suppressing unarmed civilians won't be hard. Of course just the threat of PRC intervention might be enough to send the youngsters back to their apartments.

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2019, 22:43:11 »
Some more of the latest ...
Quote
Chinese army’s Hong Kong chief says troops are ready to protect China’s sovereignty

    Commander of People’s Liberation Army’s Hong Kong garrison comments on Hong Kong for first time since protests against extradition bill began in June
    Garrison releases three-minute video of anti-riot drills, featuring tanks


Teddy Ng, South China Morning Post, 10:28am, 1 Aug, 2019

The chief of the Chinese military garrison in Hong Kong has warned that violent clashes in the city will not be tolerated and said the army is determined to protect China’s sovereignty.

Chen Daoxiang, the commander of the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA’s) Hong Kong garrison, made the warning at a reception in Hong Kong celebrating the 92nd anniversary of the Chinese military on Wednesday, when the garrison also released a promotional video that stated that troops stationed in the city were able to protect its long-term stability.

One of the scenes in the video features a soldier shouting in Cantonese during an anti-riot drill: “All consequences are at your own risk.”

Chen’s comments marked the first time he had commented on Hong Kong since protests erupted in early June against the city’s controversial extradition bill. The bill proposed the transfer of suspects to jurisdictions with which Hong Kong has no extradition agreement, including mainland China.

A still from the PLA garrison’s video showing anti-riot drills and issuing warnings to rioters. Photo: www.163.comA still from the PLA garrison’s video showing anti-riot drills and issuing warnings to rioters. Photo: www.163.com
A still from the PLA garrison’s video showing anti-riot drills and issuing warnings to rioters. Photo: www.163.com

The chief of the Chinese military garrison in Hong Kong has warned that violent clashes in the city will not be tolerated and said the army is determined to protect China’s sovereignty.

Chen Daoxiang, the commander of the People’s Liberation Army’s (PLA’s) Hong Kong garrison, made the warning at a reception in Hong Kong celebrating the 92nd anniversary of the Chinese military on Wednesday, when the garrison also released a promotional video that stated that troops stationed in the city were able to protect its long-term stability.

One of the scenes in the video features a soldier shouting in Cantonese during an anti-riot drill: “All consequences are at your own risk.”
Chen’s comments marked the first time he had commented on Hong Kong since protests erupted in early June against the city’s controversial extradition bill. The bill proposed
the transfer of suspects to jurisdictions with which Hong Kong has no extradition agreement, including mainland China.

“Recently, there have been a series of violent incidents happening in Hong Kong,” he said at the reception, held at the garrison’s central barracks in Admiralty on Hong Kong Island. “This has damaged the prosperity and stability of the city, and challenged the rule of law and social order.

“The incidents have seriously threatened the life and safety of Hong Kong citizens, and violated the bottom line of ‘one country, two systems’.

“This should not be tolerated and we express our strong condemnation.”

Chen said the garrison resolutely supported Hong Kong’s Chief Executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor and the Hong Kong police in maintaining law and order ...
More @ link
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2019, 06:59:35 »
And this from the CHN military info-machine here ....
Quote
The commander of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Garrison in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) on Wednesday strongly condemned the recent violent acts in Hong Kong and vowed to firmly safeguard national sovereignty.

Chen Daoxiang made the remarks during a reception in Hong Kong to mark the 92nd anniversary of the founding of the PLA, which is August 1.

In his first public statement on the Hong Kong issue, the PLA commander noted that a series of violent incidents have seriously undermined the overall prosperity and stability of the HKSAR, challenged the rule of law and social order in Hong Kong and threatened the safety of life and property of Hong Kong residents.

These violent acts have touched the bottom line of the "one country, two systems" principle and are "totally intolerant," Chen said.

He also expressed the garrison's support of HKSAR’s Chief Executive Carrie Lam and the Hong Kong police in maintaining law and order.

"We resolutely support the action to maintain Hong Kong’s rule of law by the people who love the nation and the city, and we are determined to protect national sovereignty, security, stability and the prosperity of Hong Kong," Chen said.
... and here
Quote
The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Garrison in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR) hosted a reception on Wednesday to mark the 92nd anniversary of the PLA's founding.

Major General Chen Daoxiang, commander of the PLA Garrison Commander, said that since the PLA Garrison was stationed in Hong Kong 22 years ago, it has been firmly implementing the principle of "one country, two systems," performing defense responsibilities in accordance with the law, firmly supporting the SAR government in governing according to the law, thus playing a significant role in maintaining Hong Kong's stability and prosperity.

The series of violent incidents that happened in Hong Kong recently have severely damaged Hong Kong's prosperity and stability, severely challenged Hong Kong's rule of law and social order, seriously threatened the lives and properties of the Hong Kong people, and touched the bottom line of the principle of "one country, two systems," Chen said.

"This is absolutely intolerable and we strongly condemn these acts," he added.

Chen said that the PLA Garrison firmly supports Hong Kong Police Force in strictly enforcing the law, and firmly supports the SAR government and the SAR Judiciary in meting out punishment to the violent criminals according to the law ...
Text of articles also attached (in case you don't want to click on a CHN gov't site).
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2019, 07:08:48 »
Remember China suppressed dissent in Tibet and their muslim population so suppressing unarmed civilians won't be hard. Of course just the threat of PRC intervention might be enough to send the youngsters back to their apartments.


That's what a lot of people, in HK and in the 'corridors of power' in Beijing, hope ... but I am in direct contact with a couple of 20somethings who are participating in the demonstrations. They say that is unlikely to happen, even though they agree it would be a good idea. This movement has a lot of public support, from young people and older folks, alike.

There is a yearning ~ I suppose that is the right word ~ for a different future for HK, people want something they never had: independence.

There will be rallies this weekend in several Canadian cities, large ones in Vancouver and Toronto, but also in Calgary, Winnipeg and Montreal ~ https://www.facebook.com/freehkmtl/videos/1334883946675168/?t=18 . I'm guessing there will also be similar rallies in Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland, London, Birmingham, Edinburg and in New York, Los Angeles and Washington, too. Beijing will be embarrassed if they are large. 'Face' matters.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2019, 07:44:07 »
Some more of the latest ...
Quote
... the garrison also released a promotional video that stated that troops stationed in the city were able to protect its long-term stability.  One of the scenes in the video features a soldier shouting in Cantonese during an anti-riot drill: “All consequences are at your own risk.” ...
Uploaded said video here @ YT -- you can see the riot control scenes from around 0:45 through 1:05 -- as well as all sorts of "Hong Kong loves the PLA" shots between 2:07 and 2:50.  The rest is slickly produced air, land and naval force promotion/"recruiting porn".
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Offline Colin P

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Re: PRC Is Ready to Invade Hong Kong
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2019, 15:31:18 »
Apparently 7,000 troops have rolled in.