Author Topic: Transport within place of duty  (Read 1606 times)

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Transport within place of duty
« on: August 23, 2019, 22:21:44 »
I have a question about travelling within your place of duty.

Let’s say you are employed at location X in city A and are regularly required to travel and work from location Y still in city A (not on TD: as part of your regular employment, about 2-3 times a week).  There is paid parking at both locations.  The travel to/from X and Y is 15 km one way.  What, if anything, are we entitled for reimbursement?  Please support your answer with references.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2019, 22:29:44 »
CFTDTI chapter 5, section 5.20 would apply.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/benefits-military/pay-pension-benefits/benefits/canadian-forces-temporary-duty-travel-instructions.html#chap5

If using a crown owned vehicle, 5.34b is authority for parking reimbursement.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2019, 22:33:32 »
What if ordered to use a private vehicle?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2019, 22:37:48 »
5.41 PMV - driver - administration
1. (Application) This instruction applies to instruction 5.40 (PMV - Driver).
2.(Maximum Distance) Except when unusual operational imperatives demand otherwise, an approving authority shall not require a member to drive on duty travel more than 500 kilometres per day during regular work hours.
3.(Cost Comparison) The cost comparison required under paragraph 5.40(2)(b) shall be calculated in a manner determined by and on a form issued by the DGCB.
4.(Refusal of request) A member cannot be ordered and is never obliged to use a PMV for duty travel.

And if the mbr is requested to use PMV and does...CFTDI Ch 5, 5.40.

5.40 PMV - driver
1.(Member Is Requested To Use PMV) Subject to paragraph 5.20(2) (Selection), a member - who is requested by an approving authority to use a PMV on duty travel and who uses that PMV as requested - is entitled to be reimbursed:
a.the kilometric rate for the direct road distance;
b.the actual and reasonable parking expenses during the TD or attached posting; and
c.if the member is required to purchase additional insurance to carry passengers for business purposes, the actual and reasonable expenses of that additional insurance.

Also, it's worth having a look at the CFTDI Ch 2 Definitions of Temporary Duty and Permanent & Temporary Workplace.

permanent workplace
a.in respect of a member who is listed on a Primary Reserve List and is serving on Class A, B, or C Reserve Service, the location — inside a place of duty — at which the member performs that Reserve Service; and
b.in any other case, the location — inside a place of duty — of the establishment or other position to which a member is posted — not attached — to perform duty.


temporary duty
a.an attachment - for less than 181 days - outside a member’s place of duty and includes duty travel for the purposes of that attachment; or
b.a duty performed - for less than 181 days - at a temporary workplace and includes duty travel for the purposes of that duty.

temporary workplace
a location — inside a place of duty — at which a member performs duty but does not include the member’s permanent workplace.

The Place of Duty definition in the CFTDI refers back to the definition found in CBI 208.80 which is:

place of duty
means the place at which an officer or non-commissioned member usually performs their normal military duties and includes any place in the surrounding geographical area that is determined to be part thereof by the Chief of the Defence Staff or such other officer as the Chief of the Defence Staff may designate.

Sounds to me like the mbr in your scenario is being asked to use their PMV to travel to a temporary workplace. 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 22:51:17 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline ballz

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2019, 22:44:49 »
Let’s say you are employed at location X in city A and are regularly required to travel and work from location Y still in city A (not on TD: as part of your regular employment, about 2-3 times a week).

My take on this....

You can only have one permanent workplace. The second location is a temporary workplace and therefore you are on TD. Leadership can try and spin it how they want to say it's not TD, they're wrong to do so.

You cannot be ordered to take you PMV to the TD location, you can be requested and yes you are entitled to the travel benefits in Ch 5 of the CFTDTIs for whatever mode of travel is taken (including parking... but also importantly to this whole scenario, to mileage if using PMV, or a taxi, or a rental, or a staff car and have the gas paid for, etc.).

Quote
permanent workplace
in respect of a member who is listed on a Primary Reserve List and is serving on Class A, B, or C Reserve Service, the location — inside a place of duty — at which the member performs that Reserve Service; and
in any other case, the location — inside a place of duty — of the establishment or other position to which a member is posted — not attached — to perform duty. (lieu de travail permanent)

Quote
temporary workplace
a location — inside a place of duty — at which a member performs duty but does not include the member’s permanent workplace. (lieu de travail temporaire)

Quote
5.01 Application
Subject to Chapter 3 (Application of CFTDTI), this Chapter applies to a member who is:

on TD at a temporary workplace that is inside the member’s place of duty; or....

« Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 23:04:17 by ballz »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2019, 22:52:47 »
Sorry Ballz...I was adding after my initial post!  On the same page though...
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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 05:36:40 »
Aside from the regulations listed above, how this plays out in practice at my unit is a Minor Travel Expense Claim (MTEC). It requires an approved 2999, an itinerary and a google map prinout with the distance (we have the most commonly used trips saved on our unit website, for convenience).

It is a bit of work, but I do it every single time that I am required to run an errand on behalf of the CAF, as a point of principle.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2019, 10:55:42 »
Thanks all!

Offline stoker dave

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2019, 09:59:23 »
I am pretty sure that somewhere in the travel orders is something about "most economical method".

Not every city has good public transit and not all public transit serves DND facilities very well.  However, if it is available be prepared to justify why you can't use public transit. 

Aside:  there are some excellent reasons why, if available, public transit is the best overall option.  You should consider using it whenever possible and practical. 

Offline Remius

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2019, 10:14:39 »
I am pretty sure that somewhere in the travel orders is something about "most economical method".

Not every city has good public transit and not all public transit serves DND facilities very well.  However, if it is available be prepared to justify why you can't use public transit. 

Aside:  there are some excellent reasons why, if available, public transit is the best overall option.  You should consider using it whenever possible and practical.

A division I used to work for at NDHQ used to give bus tickets to some locations.  The stink some people would raise over having to take the bus for 15mins...
Optio

Offline Petard

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2019, 10:30:16 »
A division I used to work for at NDHQ used to give bus tickets to some locations.  The stink some people would raise over having to take the bus for 15mins...

In Ottawa? That takes some kind of ego to get bent over riding the bus there

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2019, 10:31:06 »
I am pretty sure that somewhere in the travel orders is something about "most economical method".

Not every city has good public transit and not all public transit serves DND facilities very well.  However, if it is available be prepared to justify why you can't use public transit. 

Aside:  there are some excellent reasons why, if available, public transit is the best overall option.  You should consider using it whenever possible and practical.


Section 3 - Transportation benefits

5.20 General
1.(No Entitlement) There is no entitlement for a member to be reimbursed any expenses for travel:
a.to and from their permanent workplace on a daily basis; and
b.in respect of a mess dinner, mixed dining-in, or other similar event.

2.(Selection) An approving authority selects a member’s mode - or combination of modes - of transportation on duty travel after consideration of all of the following:

a. the relative cost and efficiency of available modes of transportation during the duty travel;
b. the conditions of road transportation and all other modes of transportation - in the duty travel area;
c. forecasted weather conditions during the duty travel;
d. the preferred transportation for short, local trips is by bus, taxi, shuttle, and other local transportation services;
e. the CF’s operational needs;
f. an intermediate sedan is the standard rental vehicle across government;
g. the member’s safety and convenience;
h. the amount of baggage or supplies that the member is required to transport; and
I. any other factor that is immediately relevant to the duty travel requirement.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:36:15 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 10:34:24 »
In Ottawa? That takes some kind of ego to get bent over riding the bus there

Yep.  We even had canned responses with references.  Plenty of ego in Ottawa.

Optio

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 18:01:47 »
Consider that the people’s time I am talking about is worth $71/hour and that the transit between the locations is approx. 1h each way, I don’t think it’s a stretch to ask for the $15 in mileage and $20 parking.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 18:02:23 »
Consider that the people’s time I am talking about is worth $71/hour and that the transit between the locations is approx. 1h each way, I don’t think it’s a stretch to ask for the $15 in mileage and $20 parking to save a total of 1.5 hrs, or $110.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 21:05:52 »
I don't disagree...now, what does the approving authority think?   ;D
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Offline ballz

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2019, 21:20:45 »
I don't disagree...now, what does the approving authority think?   ;D

Time is free.............  :brickwall:
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Offline gcclarke

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2019, 22:41:17 »
Time is free.............  :brickwall:

One of the worst habits this organization has is the manner in which they treat manpower as if there's no cost associated with it. The same people who will hem and haw about spending 200 dollars on refreshments for an event won't blink twice about having a couple hundred people spend a few days on parade practice for said event.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2019, 23:37:40 »
One of the worst habits this organization has is the manner in which they treat manpower as if there's no cost associated with it. The same people who will hem and haw about spending 200 dollars on refreshments for an event won't blink twice about having a couple hundred people spend a few days on parade practice for said event.

“It’s not the same pot of money” they say...

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 08:22:23 »
FFS...not the parade stuff again.  Please. 
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Re: Transport within place of duty
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 11:29:43 »
One of the worst habits this organization has is the manner in which they treat manpower as if there's no cost associated with it. The same people who will hem and haw about spending 200 dollars on refreshments for an event won't blink twice about having a couple hundred people spend a few days on parade practice for said event.

Because of gotcha $15 orange juice
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