Author Topic: The US Presidency 2020  (Read 93384 times)

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Online FJAG

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The US Presidency 2020
« on: January 01, 2020, 20:06:18 »
New decade; same presidency.

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Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2020, 20:12:06 »
And the election year. 
Optio

Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2020, 20:22:45 »
I am sure the GOP is anxious to get this done and over with.

They might have to wait until after The State of the Union,

Quote
National Post

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/is-nancy-pelosi-trying-to-delay-trumps-impeachment-vote-so-she-can-ruin-his-state-of-the-union-speech
“Just think of how painful it would be for 53 Republican Senators to sit in the halls of Congress, watching a live meltdown on national TV. That, alone, would be worth the price of admission."

“If there’s been a trial and there’s been a sham hearing and the Senate has slapped together an acquittal, imagine the tone of President Trump on the 4th of February: triumphal, obnoxious, overbearing, ‘I win, I win, you lose, you lose,’” Frum said. “If the impeachment is still pending on the 4th of February, can you imagine how insane that state of the union is going to be?”


« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 20:33:53 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline kkwd

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2020, 21:27:06 »
New decade; same presidency.

 :cheers:

What a surprise this is still going. There were predictions of a crashed economy, fantasies of nukes flying everywhere and destruction of democracy. Maybe this is the year it will all happen.  ;D
I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2020, 21:27:40 »
And the election year.

Oh, you mean re-election year.  ;D
I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2020, 21:34:23 »
They might have to wait until after The State of the Union,

Ask yourself a honest question, would you sign your name to and stake your reputation on the evidence provided by the House with the articles of impeachment? It's rock solid they say but to others the mileage may vary. As for fairness of a trial in the Senate, how many Democrats have already declared him guilty? How many called for impeachment previously? I guess they should recuse themselves. Along with a raft of Republican Senators, leaving Collins and Murkowski. :D
I don't subscribe to forced acceptance. I'll make up my own mind. Diversity of thought and opinion is essential.

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2020, 10:10:06 »
Saw this in last years thread,

In a country of 300 million it seems they cannot find anyone capable of uniting the country.

Some appear to have more of a talent for it than others,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_presidents_of_the_United_States#Scholar_survey_results

It's hard to know what's in people's hearts. Maybe, deep down, some only want unity if it is on their terms?

« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 12:29:40 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Online Remius

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2020, 13:17:14 »
Oh, you mean re-election year.  ;D

Given:

1) The fake news Americans face/fall for/believe in
2) The less than stellar candidates the Democrats have
3) The way the electoral college works
4) Trump's likelihood of not accepting ANY loss even if it hits him in the face

I have no doubt that you are correct in that assessment. 
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 13:27:24 by Remius »
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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2020, 13:27:19 »
An interesting article from The Atlantic re US politics in general:

Quote
America Is Now the Divided Republic the Framers Feared
John Adams worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.” And that’s exactly what has come to pass.

Lee Drutman

George Washington’s farewell address is often remembered for its warning against hyper-partisanship: “The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.” John Adams, Washington’s successor, similarly worried that “a division of the republic into two great parties … is to be dreaded as the great political evil.”

America has now become that dreaded divided republic. The existential menace is as foretold, and it is breaking the system of government the Founders put in place with the Constitution.

Though America’s two-party system goes back centuries, the threat today is new and different because the two parties are now truly distinct, a development that I date to the 2010 midterms. Until then, the two parties contained enough overlapping multitudes within them that the sort of bargaining and coalition-building natural to multiparty democracy could work inside the two-party system. No more. America now has just two parties, and that’s it.

The theory that guided Washington and Adams was simple, and widespread at the time. If a consistent partisan majority ever united to take control of the government, it would use its power to oppress the minority. The fragile consent of the governed would break down, and violence and authoritarianism would follow. This was how previous republics had fallen into civil wars, and the Framers were intent on learning from history, not repeating its mistakes.

James Madison, the preeminent theorist of the bunch and rightly called the father of the Constitution, supported the idea of an “extended republic” (a strong national government, as opposed to 13 loosely confederated states) for precisely this reason. In a small republic, he reasoned, factions could more easily unite into consistent governing majorities. But in a large republic, with more factions and more distance, a permanent majority with a permanent minority was less likely.

The Framers thought they were using the most advanced political theory of the time to prevent parties from forming. By separating powers across competing institutions, they thought a majority party would never form. Combine the two insights—a large, diverse republic with a separation of powers—and the hyper-partisanship that felled earlier republics would be averted. Or so they believed.

However, political parties formed almost immediately because modern mass democracy requires them, and partisanship became a strong identity, jumping across institutions and eventually collapsing the republic’s diversity into just two camps.

Yet separation of powers and federalism did work sort of as intended for a long while. Presidents, senators, and House members all had different electoral incentives, complicating partisan unity, and state and local parties were stronger than national parties, also complicating unity.

For much of American political history, thus, the critique of the two-party system was not that the parties were too far apart. It was that they were too similar, and that they stood for too little. The parties operated as loose, big-tent coalitions of state and local parties, which made it hard to agree on much at a national level.

From the mid-1960s through the mid-’90s, American politics had something more like a four-party system, with liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans alongside liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats. Conservative Mississippi Democrats and liberal New York Democrats might have disagreed more than they agreed in Congress, but they could still get elected on local brands. You could have once said the same thing about liberal Vermont Republicans and conservative Kansas Republicans. Depending on the issue, different coalitions were possible, which allowed for the kind of fluid bargaining the constitutional system requires.

...

See rest of article here https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/two-party-system-broke-constitution/604213/

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2020, 15:26:44 »
I am seldom speechless.....but

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/youre-a-bunch-of-dopes-and-babies-inside-trumps-stunning-tirade-against-generals/2020/01/16/d6dbb8a6-387e-11ea-bb7b-265f4554af6d_story.html?utm_campaign=post_most&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

Quote
You’re a bunch of dopes and babies’: Inside Trump’s stunning tirade against generals
By
Carol D. Leonnig and
Philip Rucker
Jan. 17, 2020 at 6:00 a.m. EST

This article is adapted from “A Very Stable Genius: Donald J. Trump’s Testing of America,” which will be published on Jan. 21 by Penguin Press.

There is no more sacred room for military officers than 2E924 of the Pentagon, a windowless and secure vault where the Joint Chiefs of Staff meet regularly to wrestle with classified matters. Its more common name is “the Tank.” The Tank resembles a small corporate boardroom, with a gleaming golden oak table, leather swivel armchairs and other mid-century stylings. Inside its walls, flag officers observe a reverence and decorum for the wrenching decisions that have been made there.

Hanging prominently on one of the walls is The Peacemakers, a painting that depicts an 1865 Civil War strategy session with President Abraham Lincoln and his three service chiefs — Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant, Major General William Tecumseh Sherman, and Rear Admiral David Dixon Porter. One hundred fifty-​­two years after Lincoln hatched plans to preserve the Union, President Trump’s advisers staged an intervention inside the Tank to try to preserve the world order.

By that point, six months into his administration, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis, Director of the National Economic Council Gary Cohn, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson had grown alarmed by gaping holes in Trump’s knowledge of history, especially the key alliances forged following World War II. Trump had dismissed allies as worthless, cozied up to authoritarian regimes in Russia and elsewhere, and advocated withdrawing troops from strategic outposts and active theaters alike.

Trump organized his unorthodox worldview under the simplistic banner of “America First,” but Mattis, Tillerson, and Cohn feared his proposals were rash, barely considered, and a danger to America’s superpower standing. They also felt that many of Trump’s impulsive ideas stemmed from his lack of familiarity with U.S. history and, even, where countries were located. To have a useful discussion with him, the trio agreed, they had to create a basic knowledge, a shared language.

So on July 20, 2017, Mattis invited Trump to the Tank for what he, Tillerson, and Cohn had carefully organized as a tailored tutorial. What happened inside the Tank that day crystallized the commander in chief’s berating, derisive and dismissive manner, foreshadowing decisions such as the one earlier this month that brought the United States to the brink of war with Iran. The Tank meeting was a turning point in Trump’s presidency. Rather than getting him to appreciate America’s traditional role and alliances, Trump began to tune out and eventually push away the experts who believed their duty was to protect the country by restraining his more dangerous impulses.

The episode has been documented numerous times, but subsequent reporting reveals a more complete picture of the moment and the chilling effect Trump’s comments and hostility had on the nation’s military and national security leadership.

Just before 10 a.m. on a scorching summer Thursday, Trump arrived at the Pentagon. He stepped out of his motorcade, walked along a corridor with portraits honoring former chairmen of the Joint Chiefs, and stepped inside the Tank. The uniformed officers greeted their commander in chief. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs General Joseph F. Dunford Jr. sat in the seat of honor midway down the table, because this was his room, and Trump sat at the head of the table facing a projection screen. Mattis and the newly confirmed deputy defense secretary, Patrick Shanahan, sat to the president’s left, with Vice President Pence and Tillerson to his right. Down the table sat the leaders of the military branches, along with Cohn and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin. White House chief strategist Stephen K. Bannon was in the outer ring of chairs with other staff, taking his seat just behind Mattis and directly in Trump’s line of sight.

Mattis, Cohn, and Tillerson and their aides decided to use maps, graphics, and charts to tutor the president, figuring they would help keep him from getting bored. Mattis opened with a slide show punctuated by lots of dollar signs. Mattis devised a strategy to use terms the impatient president, schooled in real estate, would appreciate to impress upon him the value of U.S. investments abroad. He sought to explain why U.S. troops were deployed in so many regions and why America’s safety hinged on a complex web of trade deals, alliances, and bases across the globe.

An opening line flashed on the screen, setting the tone: “The post-war international rules-based order is the greatest gift of the greatest generation.” Mattis then gave a 20-minute briefing on the power of the NATO alliance to stabilize Europe and keep the United States safe. Bannon thought to himself, “Not good. Trump is not going to like that one bit.” The internationalist language Mattis was using was a trigger for Trump.

“Oh, baby, this is going to be f---ing wild,” Bannon thought. “If you stood up and threatened to shoot [Trump], he couldn’t say ‘postwar rules-based international order.’ It’s just not the way he thinks.”

For the next 90 minutes, Mattis, Tillerson, and Cohn took turns trying to emphasize their points, pointing to their charts and diagrams. They showed where U.S. personnel were positioned, at military bases, CIA stations, and embassies, and how U.S. deployments fended off the threats of terror cells, nuclear blasts, and destabilizing enemies in places including Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, the Korea Peninsula, and Syria. Cohn spoke for about 20 minutes about the value of free trade with America’s allies, emphasizing how he saw each trade agreement working together as part of an overall structure to solidify U.S. economic and national security.

Trump appeared peeved by the schoolhouse vibe but also allergic to the dynamic of his advisers talking at him. His ricocheting attention span led him to repeatedly interrupt the lesson. He heard an adviser say a word or phrase and then seized on that to interject with his take. For instance, the word “base” prompted him to launch in to say how “crazy” and “stupid” it was to pay for bases in some countries.

Trump’s first complaint was to repeat what he had vented about to his national security adviser months earlier: South Korea should pay for a $10 billion missile defense system that the United States built for it. The system was designed to shoot down any short- and medium-range ballistic missiles from North Korea to protect South Korea and American troops stationed there. But Trump argued that the South Koreans should pay for it, proposing that the administration pull U.S. troops out of the region or bill the South Koreans for their protection.

“We should charge them rent,” Trump said of South Korea. “We should make them pay for our soldiers. We should make money off of everything.”

Trump proceeded to explain that NATO, too, was worthless. U.S. generals were letting the allied member countries get away with murder, he said, and they owed the United States a lot of money after not living up to their promise of paying their dues.

“They’re in arrears,” Trump said, reverting to the language of real estate. He lifted both his arms at his sides in frustration. Then he scolded top officials for the untold millions of dollars he believed they had let slip through their fingers by allowing allies to avoid their obligations.

“We are owed money you haven’t been collecting!” Trump told them. “You would totally go bankrupt if you had to run your own business.”

Mattis wasn’t trying to convince the president of anything, only to explain and provide facts. Now things were devolving quickly. The general tried to calmly explain to the president that he was not quite right. The NATO allies didn’t owe the United States back rent, he said. The truth was more complicated. NATO had a nonbinding goal that members should pay at least 2 percent of their gross domestic product on their defenses. Only five of the countries currently met that goal, but it wasn’t as if they were shorting the United States on the bill.

More broadly, Mattis argued, the NATO alliance was not serving only to protect western Europe. It protected America, too. “This is what keeps us safe,” Mattis said. Cohn tried to explain to Trump that he needed to see the value of the trade deals. “These are commitments that help keep us safe,” Cohn said.

Bannon interjected. “Stop, stop, stop,” he said. “All you guys talk about all these great things, they’re all our partners, I want you to name me now one country and one company that’s going to have his back.”

Trump then repeated a threat he’d made countless times before. He wanted out of the Iran nuclear deal that President Obama had struck in 2015, which called for Iran to reduce its uranium stockpile and cut its nuclear program.

“It’s the worst deal in history!” Trump declared.

“Well, actually . . .,” Tillerson interjected.

"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2020, 15:27:44 »
Quote

“I don’t want to hear it,” Trump said, cutting off the secretary of state before he could explain some of the benefits of the agreement. “They’re cheating. They’re building. We’re getting out of it. I keep telling you, I keep giving you time, and you keep delaying me. I want out of it.”

Before they could debate the Iran deal, Trump erupted to revive another frequent complaint: the war in Afghanistan, which was now America’s longest war. He demanded an explanation for why the United States hadn’t won in Afghanistan yet, now 16 years after the nation began fighting there in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Trump unleashed his disdain, calling Afghanistan a “loser war.” That phrase hung in the air and disgusted not only the military leaders at the table but also the men and women in uniform sitting along the back wall behind their principals. They all were sworn to obey their commander in chief’s commands, and here he was calling the war they had been fighting a loser war.

“You’re all losers,” Trump said. “You don’t know how to win anymore.”

Trump questioned why the United States couldn’t get some oil as payment for the troops stationed in the Persian Gulf. “We spent $7 trillion; they’re ripping us off,” Trump boomed. “Where is the f---ing oil?”

Trump seemed to be speaking up for the voters who elected him, and several attendees thought they heard Bannon in Trump’s words. Bannon had been trying to persuade Trump to withdraw forces by telling him, “The American people are saying we can’t spend a trillion dollars a year on this. We just can’t. It’s going to bankrupt us.”

“And not just that, the deplorables don’t want their kids in the South China Sea at the 38th parallel or in Syria, in Afghanistan, in perpetuity,” Bannon would add, invoking Hillary Clinton’s infamous “basket of deplorables” reference to Trump supporters.

Trump mused about removing General John Nicholson, the U.S. commander in charge of troops in Afghanistan. “I don’t think he knows how to win,” the president said, impugning Nicholson, who was not present at the meeting.

Dunford tried to come to Nicholson’s defense, but the mild-mannered general struggled to convey his points to the irascible president.

“Mr. President, that’s just not . . .,” Dunford started. “We’ve been under different orders.”

Dunford sought to explain that he hadn’t been charged with annihilating the enemy in Afghanistan but was instead following a strategy started by the Obama administration to gradually reduce the military presence in the country in hopes of training locals to maintain a stable government so that eventually the United States could pull out. Trump shot back in more plain language.

“I want to win,” he said. “We don’t win any wars anymore . . . We spend $7 trillion, everybody else got the oil and we’re not winning anymore.”

Trump by now was in one of his rages. He was so angry that he wasn’t taking many breaths. All morning, he had been coarse and cavalier, but the next several things he bellowed went beyond that description. They stunned nearly everyone in the room, and some vowed that they would never repeat them. Indeed, they have not been reported until now.

“I wouldn’t go to war with you people,” Trump told the assembled brass.

Addressing the room, the commander in chief barked, “You’re a bunch of dopes and babies.”

For a president known for verbiage he euphemistically called “locker room talk,” this was the gravest insult he could have delivered to these people, in this sacred space. The flag officers in the room were shocked. Some staff began looking down at their papers, rearranging folders, almost wishing themselves out of the room. A few considered walking out. They tried not to reveal their revulsion on their faces, but questions raced through their minds. “How does the commander in chief say that?” one thought. “What would our worst adversaries think if they knew he said this?”

This was a president who had been labeled a “draft dodger” for avoiding service in the Vietnam War under questionable circumstances. Trump was a young man born of privilege and in seemingly perfect health: six feet two inches with a muscular build and a flawless medical record. He played several sports, including football. Then, in 1968 at age 22, he obtained a diagnosis of bone spurs in his heels that exempted him from military service just as the United States was drafting men his age to fulfill massive troop deployments to Vietnam.

Tillerson in particular was stunned by Trump’s diatribe and began visibly seething. For too many minutes, others in the room noticed, he had been staring straight, dumbfounded, at Mattis, who was speechless, his head bowed down toward the table. Tillerson thought to himself, “Gosh darn it, Jim, say something. Why aren’t you saying something?”

But, as he would later tell close aides, Tillerson realized in that moment that Mattis was genetically a Marine, unable to talk back to his commander in chief, no matter what nonsense came out of his mouth.

The more perplexing silence was from Pence, a leader who should have been able to stand up to Trump. Instead, one attendee thought, “He’s sitting there frozen like a statue. Why doesn’t he stop the president?” Another recalled the vice president was “a wax museum guy.” From the start of the meeting, Pence looked as if he wanted to escape and put an end to the president’s torrent. Surely, he disagreed with Trump’s characterization of military leaders as “dopes and babies,” considering his son, Michael, was a Marine first lieutenant then training for his naval aviator wings. But some surmised Pence feared getting crosswise with Trump. “A total deer in the headlights,” recalled a third attendee.

Others at the table noticed Trump’s stream of venom had taken an emotional toll. So many people in that room had gone to war and risked their lives for their country, and now they were being dressed down by a president who had not. They felt sick to their stomachs. Tillerson told others he thought he saw a woman in the room silently crying. He was furious and decided he couldn’t stand it another minute. His voice broke into Trump’s tirade, this one about trying to make money off U.S. troops.

“No, that’s just wrong,” the secretary of state said. “Mr. President, you’re totally wrong. None of that is true.”

Tillerson’s father and uncle had both been combat veterans, and he was deeply proud of their service.

“The men and women who put on a uniform don’t do it to become soldiers of fortune,” Tillerson said. “That’s not why they put on a uniform and go out and die . . . They do it to protect our freedom.”

There was silence in the Tank. Several military officers in the room were grateful to the secretary of state for defending them when no one else would. The meeting soon ended and Trump walked out, saying goodbye to a group of servicemen lining the corridor as he made his way to his motorcade waiting outside. Mattis, Tillerson, and Cohn were deflated. Standing in the hall with a small cluster of people he trusted, Tillerson finally let down his guard.

“He’s a f---ing moron,” the secretary of state said of the president.

The plan by Mattis, Tillerson, and Cohn to train the president to appreciate the internationalist view had clearly backfired.

“We were starting to get out on the wrong path, and we really needed to have a course correction and needed to educate, to teach, to help him understand the reason and basis for a lot of these things,” said one senior official involved in the planning. “We needed to change how he thinks about this, to course correct. Everybody was on board, 100 percent agreed with that sentiment. [But] they were dismayed and in shock when not only did it not have the intended effect, but he dug in his heels and pushed it even further on the spectrum, further solidifying his views.”

A few days later, Pence’s national security adviser, Andrea Thompson, a retired Army colonel who had served in Afghanistan and Iraq, reached out to thank Tillerson for speaking up on behalf of the military and the public servants who had been in the Tank. By September 2017, she would leave the White House and join Tillerson at Foggy Bottom as undersecretary of state for arms control and international security affairs.

The Tank meeting had so thoroughly shocked the conscience of military leaders that they tried to keep it a secret. At the Aspen Security Forum two days later, longtime NBC News correspondent Andrea Mitchell asked Dunford how Trump had interacted during the Tank meeting. The Joint Chiefs chairman misleadingly described the meeting, skipping over the fireworks.

“He asked a lot of hard questions, and the one thing he does is question some fundamental assumptions that we make as military leaders — and he will come in and question those,” Dunford told Mitchell on July 22. “It’s a pretty energetic and an interactive dialogue.”

One victim of the Tank meeting was Trump’s relationship with Tillerson, which forever after was strained. The secretary of state came to see it as the beginning of the end. It would only worsen when news that Tillerson had called Trump a “moron” was first reported in October 2017 by NBC News.

Trump once again gathered his generals and top diplomats in December 2017 for a meeting as part of the administration’s ongoing strategy talks about troop deployments in Afghanistan in the Situation Room, a secure meeting room on the ground floor of the West Wing. Trump didn’t like the Situation Room as much as the Pentagon’s Tank, because he didn’t think it had enough gravitas. It just wasn’t impressive.

But there Trump was, struggling to come up with a new Afghanistan policy and frustrated that so many U.S. forces were deployed in so many places around the world. The conversation began to tilt in the same direction as it had in the Tank back in July.

“All these countries need to start paying us for the troops we are sending to their countries. We need to be making a profit,” Trump said. “We could turn a profit on this.”

Dunford tried to explain to the president once again, gently, that troops deployed in these regions provided stability there, which helped make America safer. Another officer chimed in that charging other countries for U.S. soldiers would be against the law.

“But it just wasn’t working,” one former Trump aide recalled. “Nothing worked.”

Following the Tank meeting, Tillerson had told his aides that he would never silently tolerate such demeaning talk from Trump about making money off the deployments of U.S. soldiers. Tillerson’s father, at the age of 17, had committed to enlist in the Navy on his next birthday, wanting so much to serve his country in World War II. His great-uncle was a career officer in the Navy as well. Both men had been on his mind, Tillerson told aides, when Trump unleashed his tirade in the Tank and again when he repeated those points in the Situation Room in December.

“We need to get our money back,” Trump told his assembled advisers.

That was it. Tillerson stood up. But when he did so, he turned his back to the president and faced the flag officers and the rest of the aides in the room. He didn’t want a repeat of the scene in the Tank.

“I’ve never put on a uniform, but I know this,” Tillerson said. “Every person who has put on a uniform, the people in this room, they don’t do it to make a buck. They did it for their country, to protect us. I want everyone to be clear about how much we as a country value their service.”

Tillerson’s rebuke made Trump angry. He got a little red in the face. But the president decided not to engage Tillerson at that moment. He would wait to take him on another day.

Later that evening, after 8:00, Tillerson was working in his office at the State Department’s Foggy Bottom headquarters, preparing for the next day. The phone rang. It was Dunford. The Joint Chiefs chairman’s voice was unsteady with emotion. Dunford had much earlier joked with Tillerson that in past administrations the secretaries of state and Defense Department leaders wouldn’t be caught dead walking on the same side of the street, for their rivalry was that fierce. But now, as both men served Trump, they were brothers joined against what they saw as disrespect for service members. Dunford thanked Tillerson for standing up for them in the Situation Room.

“You took the body blows for us,” Dunford said. “Punch after punch. Thank you. I will never forget it.”

Tillerson, Dunford, and Mattis would not take those body blows for much longer. They failed to rein in Trump’s impulses or to break through what they regarded as the president’s stubborn, even dangerous insistence that he knew best. Piece by piece, the guardrails that had hemmed in the chaos of Trump’s presidency crumpled.

In March 2018, Trump abruptly fired Tillerson while the secretary of state was halfway across the globe on a sensitive diplomatic mission to Africa to ease tensions caused by Trump’s demeaning insults about African countries. Trump gave Tillerson no rationale for his firing, and afterward acted as if they were buddies, inviting him to come by the Oval Office to take a picture and have the president sign it. Tillerson never went.

Mattis continued serving as the defense secretary, but the president’s sudden decision in December 2018 to withdraw troops from Syria and abandon America’s Kurdish allies there — one the president soon reversed, only to remake 10 months later — inspired him to resign. Mattis saw Trump’s desired withdrawal as an assault on a soldier’s code. “He began to feel like he was becoming complicit,” recalled one of the secretary’s confidants.

The media interpretation of Mattis’ resignation letter as a scathing rebuke of Trump’s worldview brought the president’s anger to a boiling point. Trump decided to remove Mattis two months ahead of the secretary’s chosen departure date. His treatment of Mattis upset the secretary’s staff. They decided to arrange the biggest clap out they could. The event was a tradition for all departing secretaries. They wanted a line of Pentagon personnel that stretched for a mile applauding Mattis as he left for the last time. It was going to be “yuge,” staffers joked, borrowing from Trump’s glossary.

But Mattis would not allow it.

“No, we are not doing that,” he told his aides. “You don’t understand the president. I work with him. You don’t know him like I do. He will take it out on Shanahan and Dunford.”

Dunford stayed on until September 2019, retiring at the conclusion of his four-year term as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. One of Dunford’s first public acts after leaving office was to defend a military officer attacked by Trump, Army Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, a National Security Council official who testified in the House impeachment inquiry about his worries over Trump’s conduct with Ukraine. Trump dismissed Vindman as a “Never Trumper,” but Dunford stepped forward to praise the Purple Heart recipient as “a professional, competent, patriotic, and loyal officer. He has made an extraordinary contribution to the security of our nation.”

By then, however, Trump had become a president entirely unrestrained. He had replaced his raft of seasoned advisers with a cast of enablers who executed his orders and engaged his obsessions. They saw their mission as telling the president yes.
[/quote]
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Offline QV

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2020, 17:07:54 »
Surely that’s all true like all the rest of the negative media reporting since 2015. 


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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2020, 17:17:19 »
Surely that’s all true like all the rest of the negative media reporting since 2015.

Quote
The Fake News is working overtime. Just reported that, despite the tremendous success we are having with the economy & all things else, 91% of the Network News about me is negative (Fake). Why do we work so hard in working with the media when it is corrupt? Take away credentials?
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/994179864436596736
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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2020, 17:21:38 »
Surely that’s all true like all the rest of the negative media reporting since 2015.

I'm sure any of the highly experienced, senior, professional, and honourable individuals mentioned whose loyalty to the president is impugned by this piece of reporting will be quick to deny any aspects of the account they don't feel is accurate.

All that said, given how many people were in the room, I have no difficulty believing that the authors were careful to check, triple check, and corroborate before committing to this account. There's not a thing written in there that isn't demonstrably consistent with other outburst of petulance, both public, and in private and credibly reported on.
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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2020, 13:27:26 »
And yet he could still win the next election, which is pretty frickin sad...
... Move!! ...

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2020, 17:53:46 »
Despite the crappy way of saying it, some of what he is saying is not wrong. The US cannot afford to keep spending the way it has and can't afford to keep troops everywhere. He is also right that the "Deporables" will suffer the greatest burden of going to fight these battles. He is also not wrong that other Allies have not done a great job of stepping up to the bar in either deployments and/or spending on defense. Coupled with many of those nations openly demeaning and criticising everything the US does at the same time expecting the US to come to their defense in time of need. Maybe Trump is what the western world needs in order not to take what the US offers for granted?

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2020, 18:56:02 »
Despite the crappy way of saying it, some of what he is saying is not wrong. The US cannot afford to keep spending the way it has and can't afford to keep troops everywhere. He is also right that the "Deporables" will suffer the greatest burden of going to fight these battles. He is also not wrong that other Allies have not done a great job of stepping up to the bar in either deployments and/or spending on defense. Coupled with many of those nations openly demeaning and criticising everything the US does at the same time expecting the US to come to their defense in time of need. Maybe Trump is what the western world needs in order not to take what the US offers for granted?

A clock that has stopped running tells the correct time twice a day.

A lot of what is going on in the US (including the economy) is pretty much on autopilot and neither hurt nor helped by Trump. As to the specific items that you bring up: if the US could not afford it's involvement in foreign deployments, why did he add $50 billion to their budget instead of developing a coherent disengagement plan. Instead he rants and raves and impetuously lashes out with whatever thought he had that day.

One can argue the issue of whether the allies have stepped up or not. Collectively NATO (without the US) spends 5-6 times what their potential enemy Russia spends. France alone spends as much as Russia. Remember that the agreement at the Wales NATO summit in 2014 was that countries below 2% of GDP would "aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade" i.e. 2024. There is no current requirement to be at 2%. Roughly half are already there or have firm plans to meet the 2024 goal. (Sadly not Canada - but that's understandable considering who Toronto voted in as PM again)

As to not supporting the US (or even being critical of the US) one has to remember that not everything that the US has done as far as international engagement has been laudable (remember Iraq). Partners in NATO can disagree on issues and still rely on each other for collective defence when they are threatened from the outside. Trump's view of Europe is that if the US relations with Europe are not profitable to the US and then they are not to be supported until they are. That's essentially how colonialism works. The post WW2 relationship of the US and its allies have been one of mutual benefit that have resulted in some 75 years of an absence of major conflict (Iraq and Afghanistan were not major - expensive in blood and treasure perhaps but not to the point where our society was at risk)

I honestly don't think that Europe and other countries have ever taken the US for granted. The US was isolationist prior to and for many of the critical years in WW2; post WW2 there was a mutual coming together because of the communist threat but most countries strongly disagreed with the US's Vietnam adventure and lost much faith in the US during this time. With the fall of the USSR, one of the greatest recipients of the peace dividend was the US who withdrew heavily from Europe. The problem with Trump is that he has taken the relationship with Europe to the level that they think that the US is becoming an economic adversary rather than an ally/trading partner.

 :cheers:
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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2020, 16:34:05 »
Start of a post of mine:

Quote
"So how could Biden imagine himself as the reincarnation of the Kennedys?"

And why was/is President Trump so spooked by, fixated on, the former senator and vice-president? Excerpts from a fascinating, and in the end dispiriting, article by Fintan O’Toole in the NY Review of Books...
https://mark3ds.wordpress.com/2020/01/22/so-how-could-biden-imagine-himself-as-the-reincarnation-of-the-kennedys/

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2020, 17:14:24 »
From Reply #17,
"So how could Biden imagine himself as the reincarnation of the Kennedys?"


Years ago it was not uncommon as you entered Toronto homes to see two portraits on the wall: Jesus Christ and John F. Kennedy.
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2020, 09:58:52 »

I didn't see this till now, as I have made it a habit to avoid anything trump on this board to avoid pointless arguments, but my god, that is absolutely disgusting.
Someday I'll care about milpoints.

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2020, 06:00:32 »
I didn't see this till now, as I have made it a habit to avoid anything trump on this board to avoid pointless arguments, but my god, that is absolutely disgusting.

At this point I find it hard to dig up much residual surprise or disgust for his ability to disgrace his own office. It is what it is. Granted this particular one is just a tad thick from a repeat draft dodger, but it’s wholly in line with his character to attack his top generals and... well, call them names when he doesn’t like the answers they give them. Presidential tantrums have been the new norm for a few years now. The tragic bit for America is he’s driving out or firing the top tier of switched on senior executives who are critical for the effective development and deployment of sound policy options.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2020, 18:18:01 »
Saw this in Canadian Politics,

Black Americans who voted for Trump

Black Americans voted Republican in the last election: 9 %.

got called nazis and racists.

Cyber bullying - no matter who does it - is wrong.



In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2020, 18:28:15 »
Saw this in Canadian Politics,

Black Americans voted Republican in the last election: 9 %.

Black Americans: 12.1%

Quote
Cyber bullying - no matter who does it - is wrong.
Yup. In person as well.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/81-year-old-wearing-maga-hat-attacked-at-supermarket-prosecutors/16061/
81-Year-Old Man Wearing MAGA Hat Attacked in NJ Supermarket: Prosecutors
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Offline mariomike

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Re: The US Presidency 2020
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2020, 18:40:12 »
Black Americans: 12.1%

This was my source for the Republicans getting 9 % of the African-American vote  in the 2018 mid-term election,
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/81-year-old-wearing-maga-hat-attacked-at-supermarket-prosecutors/16061/
81-Year-Old Man Wearing MAGA Hat Attacked in NJ Supermarket: Prosecutors

Shameful.


I saw a comedy show where a guy used a maga hat as a highly effective "people repellant". 

He also put it on to save himself from an ***-kicking during a road rage incident with a biker.  :)

At this point I find it hard to dig up much residual surprise or disgust for his ability to disgrace his own office.

 :nod:
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 11:04:03 by mariomike »
In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER