Author Topic: Changes to service medals announced  (Read 6504 times)

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2020, 10:45:19 »
I still feel they are misusing the GCS/GSM-EXP by issuing it for Op Impact.

"This ribbon was created to provide a flexible form of recognition for those missions conducted in the presence of an armed enemy which size or scope does not justify the creation of a separate ribbon"

What defines "size or scope"?

Op Impact has been going on since 2014.  Yes I know it is not as "big" as the Afghanistan missions were...

Might be that the mission outgrew the medal. I probably would not be alone in suggesting a new ribbon be commissioned to recognize that particular theatre.
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Offline eliminator

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2020, 11:28:29 »
Might be that the mission outgrew the medal. I probably would not be alone in suggesting a new ribbon be commissioned to recognize that particular theatre.

Or perhaps even easier, just rename the GCS/GSM-SWA to "Afghanistan" and the GCS/GSM-EXP to "Iraq and Syria"?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2020, 11:54:42 »
Or perhaps even easier, just rename the GCS/GSM-SWA to "Afghanistan" and the GCS/GSM-EXP to "Iraq and Syria"?

Typical imperialist...

....shoehorning rich, diverse, vibrant and complex Asian cultures into the Euro-centric geographical fabrications unfairly forced upon these peace loving peoples by greedy, exploitative, self-interested, colonial 19th century 'gunboat elitists' :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Brihard

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2020, 16:47:32 »
Typical imperialist...

....shoehorning rich, diverse, vibrant and complex Asian cultures into the Euro-centric geographical fabrications unfairly forced upon these peace loving peoples by greedy, exploitative, self-interested, colonial 19th century 'gunboat elitists' :)

Well we need something more readily memorable than General Campaign Star-Sykes Picot"
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2020, 18:47:06 »


Danger isn't the criteria for medals,

Agreed.

And, it's important to point out the words "danger" "dangerous" "important" and "importance" aren't found in the description/narrative for any of the GCSs or GSMs.   :nod:

(It is, however, found in the narrative for the OSM; "...served under dangerous circumstances outside...")

Some medals are awarded for a theatre/time criteria...like the SSM-Exp.  Op PROJECTION...LRP aircrew, groundcrew, and mission support crew; all eligible for the same gong.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2020, 18:56:58 »
Did the existing GCS/GSM-SWA not cover the territory of the Op IMPACT AOR?


General Campaign Star - SOUTH-WEST ASIA (GCS-SWA)

in the theatre of operations consisting of the political boundaries of Afghanistan, the Persian Gulf, the Gulf of Oman, the Gulf of Aden, the Red Sea, the Suez Canal, and those parts of the Indian Ocean and the Arabian Sea that are west of sixty-eight degrees East longitude and north of five degrees South latitude, as well as the airspace above those areas

General Campaign Star - EXPEDITION (GCS-EXP)

- within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq; and/or
- within the political boundaries of Syria, its airspace and territorial waters

Quote
Why award the "EXP" versions of medals when there already were medals in the system?

The GCS-Exp had already been identified for service inside Iraq before IMPACT;  it wasn't created because of it.  Before IMPACT, though, there was only a handful of them awarded; 6 or so IIRC.  Eligible service pre-IMPACT was from as early as 1 January 2003.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 07:54:14 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2020, 19:08:15 »
Well we need something more readily memorable than General Campaign Star-Sykes Picot"

I would like to see RA/HA be adjustable in a more timely manner than once a year (from my understanding) and by someone a bit more accessable than the mysterious treasury board.


As for the medals I would guess most of us would say we don't care all that much about bling and I think most of us are honest about that.

At an institutional level we really look down on anyone who doesn't have medals.
Sgt/WO or Senior Captain/Major without some medals? Good luck getting respect. People will talk crap about you behind your back or even have the audacity to question your service to your face.

I don't sympathise with people wearing medals they didn't warn but I certainly recognize the pressure.

"Earning" them will always be a point of contention.
30 days driving a bus back and forth from the kitchen (which practically anyone in the caf can do) vs aircrew and specialists risking getting shown down and star in a YouTube torture video.
Almost being murdered on a daily basis seeing people mangled for 7 months vs a 14 day trip that's more sight seeing than anything (or whatever timeline).

We're never going to get away from tour tourists.

The best I'd hope for is something that gets tourists in and out of theater as quick as possible to get their medal and keep out of the way of the rest of us.

If someone's only in theater for 2 or 3 weeks and does something meaningful then that's great they get a medal.
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Offline eliminator

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2020, 19:12:29 »

Danger isn't the criteria for medals, service is.

Found this quote from the official GSM-EXP page at https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/medals/medals-chart-index/general-service-medal-expedition-gsm-exp.html

"To be eligible to be awarded the Medal, direct support must be performed under Exceptional circumstances and the person must have been deployed specifically to provide this support on a full-time basis to the operations. Only when there is a certain level of risk, threat, hardship, or operational intensity can recognition be provided. Any support which is comparable in nature to normal duty or which is performed from the relative safety of a country distant from the theatre shall be excluded from eligibility."



Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2020, 19:58:32 »
Found this quote from the official GSM-EXP page at https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/medals/medals-chart-index/general-service-medal-expedition-gsm-exp.html

"To be eligible to be awarded the Medal, direct support must be performed under Exceptional circumstances and the person must have been deployed specifically to provide this support on a full-time basis to the operations. Only when there is a certain level of risk, threat, hardship, or operational intensity can recognition be provided. Any support which is comparable in nature to normal duty or which is performed from the relative safety of a country distant from the theatre shall be excluded from eligibility."

Which is weird, because I assume this presumes that someone way back in the echelon will never deploy forward during the campaign.

Not very 'agile' IMHO....
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline eliminator

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2020, 20:46:58 »
Which is weird, because I assume this presumes that someone way back in the echelon will never deploy forward during the campaign.

Not very 'agile' IMHO....

I tend to agree; specifically it seems like the context of "aircrew" non-permanence over GCS-qualifying territory being one of the complicating factors.

Personally, three of my medals are related to service in SWA (GCS-SWA, GSM-EXP, SSM-EXP) with each one of my tours experiencing various levels of "suck" and WiFi connectivity quality that seem to match the associated medal's order of precedence.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 20:50:05 by eliminator »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2020, 20:51:08 »
and WiFi connectivity quality that seem to match the associated medal's order of precedence.

Gold, Jerry!  :rofl:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Kilted

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #86 on: January 18, 2020, 14:05:02 »
I think that it is unfortunate how medals can be treated now a days. I think that we could go on and create different medals for every different type or level of overseas duty you shake a stick at and people would still complain about someone getting the same medal as them. And it's not new, when the CD was introduced the RCN was very upset that the sailors would get the same medal (with post-nominals) as officers. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more people complaining about it going to everyone in the CAF. Medals are supposed to be something that you can have pride in, not something for other people to judge you (some times based on jealousy) over based on what medals you have, or don't have, or what rank you receive them at.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Changes to service medals announced
« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2020, 15:33:24 »
I think that it is unfortunate how medals can be treated now a days. I think that we could go on and create different medals for every different type or level of overseas duty you shake a stick at and people would still complain about someone getting the same medal as them. And it's not new, when the CD was introduced the RCN was very upset that the sailors would get the same medal (with post-nominals) as officers. I'm actually surprised that there aren't more people complaining about it going to everyone in the CAF. Medals are supposed to be something that you can have pride in, not something for other people to judge you (some times based on jealousy) over based on what medals you have, or don't have, or what rank you receive them at.

Troops have been dick measuring for as long as there have been dicks, or measuring.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.