Poll

What do you think of the changes?

Love it!
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Same stuff, different day...
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Author Topic: Poll: What do you think of the changes?  (Read 32369 times)

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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2004, 09:22:16 »
Mike, On about 1/10 of the posts I dont get that little dohickey on the right side to scroll so I don't get the complete message. I'm on my home comp., not the normal one I use. ;D I'm just curious if its my comp. or a bug.
Thank's Bruce
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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2004, 22:46:53 »
Very nice work Mike.

 It is nice to see the custom faces still around :fifty: :soldier: :dontpanic:

but, I like the old generic ones better than the new generic   :) ;) :D :( :-\

and, why is this guy here twice   :sniper: :akimbo:  (ah! One is supposed to be the sniper.  and I thought he was just too well cam'ed)

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2004, 23:01:32 »
Aha, good catch... I've fixed the "sniper" icon, thanks. I'll keep updating things as we go, so every bit of feedback helps. :)

Bruce: are you still having a problem with the scrollbars?

Offline Spartan

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2004, 14:18:51 »
Just a quick question:
when you're looking at the thread lists and it says last post by (whomever) is there a way to set it up so that when you click on the last post (whomevers) name that it brings you to the last post in the thread as compared to bringing up their profile?
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Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2004, 15:03:23 »
If you click on the topic name, that'll take you to the new posts... Clicking on a username always takes you to that user's profile, there's not much I can do to change that unfortunately...

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Yard Ape

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2004, 01:52:00 »
I cannot do searches by post title only, and the search engine will also identify my word if it is part of the spelling of a larger word.  :crybaby:

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2004, 09:15:51 »
Good point... I'll put in a feature request to see if we can get that option...

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2004, 11:08:12 »
Good news: that'll be in the next release of the software (not due out for a month or two).

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2004, 16:49:46 »
Mike,
The problem I talked to you about is only on my home computer so I think its because my browser is outdated. Will fix :blotto:
Bruce
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline combat_medic

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2004, 12:09:26 »
Hey Mike, here's an interesting bug:

When I view the site on my home computer using a newer version of internet explorer, everything is fine, but at work where I'm using Mozilla, the formatting is screwy. For posts of 1-3 lines, only the first line is showing up. For longer posts, the first 2 lines are showing up with a scroll bar on the right, so I'm having to read everything 2 lines at a time. Probably just a browser-specific bug, but an interesting one nonetheless.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2004, 12:26:49 »
Hmmm. That's what Bruce was reporting too. I just tested it on Mozilla 1.6, and it worked OK. What version are you using?

Offline combat_medic

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2004, 13:01:54 »
I'm using 1.0. I'll try the upgrade and see if that doesn't fix it.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2004, 13:04:02 »
Sounds good, let me know how it goes...


Thanks

Offline combat_medic

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2004, 13:09:51 »
Yeah, that fixed it, cheers.
+150
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Offline Willy

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2004, 15:08:46 »
Mike, it's your site, and I can only assume that you've made it the way you want it.   So I hope that I'm not out of line by making this suggestion, but I think that the user rating (promote/demote) function should be scrapped.   Frankly, I think it's juvenile.   Really, it's just a slightly more polite form of name calling.   If people were using it to "promote" members who made intelligent arguments or who brought newsworthy info to everyone's attention, and to "demote" those who were actually trolling, or otherwise making non-worthwhile contributions, then maybe it would be ok.   I don't think that's the way it's being used however: I'll admit that I have "demoted" those whose posts I have simply disagreed with, and I think others are doing the same thing.   Looking back on it, I probably shouldn't have done that, as it was, as I said, childish of me to do so.   People are going to disagree, and a member who holds strong opinions, even on controversial subjects, does not necessarily make a bad member of the site.

Recently, there have been a couple of passionate arguments on this board.   That's fair enough-- I tend to hold a lot of strong opinions myself, and I do like to argue them with others.   The thing is, that the threads I am referring to have quickly degenerated into name calling on the part of both sides involved, and such behaviour does not tend to encourage meaningful debate.   If the general opinion of the membership of this board is that it disagrees with a particular post, then there will probably be enough rebuttals made to make that fact well known, and that will be the case regardless of whether or not we can "demote" our "enemies".   At least in an honest rebuttal there is (ideally) going to be some legitimate argument made.   On the other hand, given the presence of the user rating function, I think that the temptation is to read a post, disagree with it, and then just "demote" the party responsible.   In other words, I think that the way this function is currently being applied is along the lines of "I agree with the gist of what this guy has said, though he might have acted like a retard when saying it: I should promote him" and/or "I disagree with what this member has posted, and though the poster may have written it in a professional manner, I'm going to demote him".   As I said, I just don't think that such behaviour is really very far elevated above childish name calling, and I'm not proud of having engaged in it myself in the past.

So there you go.   Submitted for your consideration.   And by the way, I'm aware that my user rating is not 100% favourable at the moment, and I hope you can believe me when I say that the votes against me really aren't the reason I have made this proposal.

A reformed name caller,

Willy

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Ratings
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2004, 17:04:01 »
Hi Willy,

Thanks for the feedback. (And you're not out of line...all feedback is good, it helps form a more complete picture.) It was certainly not a "clear cut" decision to enable ratings. There are really two questions to look at with regards to the rating system:

1. Will people use the system to effectively rate the contributions (or detractions) of other users here?

While my hope is that it will be strictly used to encourage contribution and discourage trolling, I have no illusions that it will also be used as a personal vendetta device. That's unfortunate, but there's little we can do about it short of disabling ratings all together. (As a matter of principle, I hate to let the "few abusers" force the rest of us to get along with one less feature...)

In the old system, you could rate a user from 1-5 only once, and had to live with that. The new system allows you to rate a user multiple times  (with a one hour mandatory "cooling off" period in between). There are pros and cons to that: if someone is able to change their ways (for better or worse) you're no longer forced to live with your initial assessment of the user.

My rule of thumb: Whenever I see a post that's informative, useful, entertaining, etc I give the poster a positive rating. When I see someone dishing out personal attacks or taking a thread off topic, they get a negative. I don't (consciously) let personal opinions come into play.

As a mitigating factor, you must have at least 25 posts here before you can rate someone else. That won't prevent abuse, but it'll require that you've been here for a while before you can start throwing punches.  I give out 3-4 positive ratings for every negative, though I'm not sure if that's a function of the posts I read or a subconscious decision to stay positive.

2. What is the impact of a user's rating?

This is key. Ratings are used by the staff here to judge a user's standing, but only in part. That is, nobody's going to stay or inflict punitive action based on ratings. It's always based on a user's specific actions. Having said that, a strong trend in one direction or the other can help us form a clearer picture of a user's general standing. We're aware that ratings may be skewed by mudslinging and that it may turn into a popularity contest, and so we weigh it accordingly.

How others interpret a user's ratings is up for debate, but you can assume they put a bit more stock into the facts posted by someone with a positive trend, and look with a bit more skepticism on those from someone with a negative trend.

The danger in dropping the rating system is that there's no way for the general population to reward good behaviour and punish bad. I'm hoping that it will act as an incentive (no matter how small) and nudge people in the "right" direction in terms of forum behaviour.

Feel free to demote me if you disagree. ;)

And to your point about recent posts: You're absolutely right. There have been too many threads degrade into a name calling match. Everone needs to be aware that personal attacks are against forum policy and will not be tolerated. Action will be taken against users who breach the conduct guidelines.


Cheers
Mike
« Last Edit: June 09, 2004, 17:06:53 by Mike Bobbitt »

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2004, 17:51:55 »
Mike,

I have to agree with Willy about the ratings.  I've engaged in no name-calling and attempted to provide intelligent comment in all my posts and yet have managed to collect three 'demote' votes.  I'm not concerned about that, but it does show that some folks are using the demote button to express displeasure with an opinion.

The idea of such a rating system is intriguing, but I don't think it will work for the general group.  Why not limit it to the moderators?  Or some other identifiable group who have demonstrated restraint and fairness in their own posts. 

Just a thought.  You know what those are worth.  :)

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2004, 18:01:02 »
I think the upgrades here on the site are great. It just takes a bit of time to get familiar to navigating, but its evolving, and making it better for us all. Thanks to Mike for his continuing support.

As for the promote/demote. I too am comfortable with that also, but less than a few days ago, I had no demotes, but if someone wants to punish me over my opinion, I am cool with that too.

I enjoy this site very much, and everyone on here, no matter what, overall, contributes manily positive and informative posts, some which generate much passion and heat.

Cheers,

Wes
"You've never lived until you've almost died; as for our freedom, for those of us who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know." - Anonymous

Offline Goober

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2004, 03:20:27 »
I've been 'demoted' because of my objective opionions alot, but personally, I don't bother with the rating system because I know it turns out to be a vendetta device like Mike stated.

A suggestion though, if you are keeping it, is it possible to only be able to promote/demote a single post only once? Right now you can promote/demote any single post as many times as you like, as long as you wait an hour.

My company I work for right now has a message board with a few million users, the way they work the rating system is, that in the persons profile you see the sum of all promotes/demotes, but each post has its own sum of promotes/demotes displayed to the left of the post, and readers rate the specific post, instead of the user. The users rating is a sum of all of his/her ratings for posts.

If you'd like to see what I mean, I can direct you to that message board.

Anywho, just a suggestion about the ratings.

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2004, 08:52:33 »
I like the idea of rating threads as well as individuals... Unfortunately, it's not an option at the moment, but it may be added some point down the road...

Offline Allan Luomala

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2004, 10:22:21 »
I am in agreement with the others on the promote/demote issue: it's used indiscriminately to "punish" those that have strong opinions. I have noticed that Wesley Allen has gotten many "demotions" and some form of a warning as well, and even though he and I have had disagreements over issues and opinions in the past, I can't see any of his posts that would merit him being put on warning. Having said that, if you click on the part where it says that they are on "warning", it should link to the post(s) that meritted the warning. As well, when someone promotes/demotes someone, it should be like the eBay feedback function, and you have to justify why you promoted/demoted someone, and a chance for the person to defend themselves. I think there would be a lot less cowardly snipes at people that way.

Just some thoughts that may help improve an otherwise excellent forum (you can't control the yahoo's who come in until it's too late sometimes......)

Al

Offline ToRN

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2004, 13:20:13 »
I've been 'demoted' because of my objective *opionions alot, but personally, I don't bother with the rating system because I know it turns out to be a vendetta device like Mike stated.
You have been demoted in the past mostly for personal attacks and insults directed at other board members, primarily during your first 20 or so posts, Feel Free to PM me if you want to find out exactly where you got the most, I can give you examples. It should be pretty obvious to anyone what kind of posts cause demotions, or promotions for that matter. (this goes for anyone)

In fact, this post will probably give me one from Goober

I believe the rating system is a great idea, as it serves to let you know when your opinions are not agreed with, or you are being inappropriate on the forums. It is also a feature that serves to limit the stupidity factor on the site, because users know that their controversial posts will merit demotion, and therefore change the content to a more appropriate level.

* Please spell check before posting (Pet Peeve)
Chimo

Offline Goober

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2004, 15:24:50 »
I'll PM you and show you only 1 of my 66 posts so far can be seen as a personal attack, which I let anger get the best of me. Anyway lets not hiack this thread.

Offline Allan Luomala

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2004, 20:06:49 »
I have a suggestion: Even though my last major suggestion went over like a fart in church (people using their real names vs the ever "kewl" and anonymous nickname), some people dared to be different and now use their real name (yay for me!!!). After reading some of the suggestions in the Recruiting forum, it is painfully obvious to me (and others) that some of those that reply to those not in the know (ie. prospective CF recruits) don't know squat about the military. But, those people (civilians) that don't know a Master Corporal from a Master Gunner can't decipher all the TLA's (three letter acronyms) and other cryptic initials that we use to identify our units.

So my proposal is this: in the profile (which should be displayed below the persons name or "handle"), it should be mandatory to put your relation to the military: Regular Force, Reserves, Cadet, Civilian, Retired Military, Foreign (ie. not Canadian) military, Coast Guard, etc. This may (or may not) help those people who are trying to find out (good) answers determine if they should be listening to the person replying. Yes, before everybody gets their boxer-briefs in a knot, I realize there are stunned-*** Reg Force guys who don't know squat, and super switched on Reservists that know the secrets of the universe, but I think it could help.

Again, there will be dissenters, and watch my "demotion" score plummet, but I feel I must carry on in the tradition of Don Quixote, and keep tilting against windmills.....

Al

Offline Lance Wiebe

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Re: Poll: What do you think of the changes?
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2004, 20:20:19 »
I'm too new hear to comment on any changes.  But I do have a request.  When you modify your profile, there is a place to put a rank, unit, brigade and so on.  However, could there be something for old retired fogies like me? 

Although I am a ***** eyed flat faced civilian,  I did wear a uniform for 27 years.  And I still work in the defense industry.

"It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who served beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag." - Charles M. Province