Author Topic: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]  (Read 439001 times)

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Offline Evian

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #650 on: September 09, 2017, 01:38:09 »
Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum. I just have some questions regarding joining the primary reserve as an Officer Or NCM and hope someone could give me some insights.

I have a 3 year advanced diploma in computer systems technology, and I am also currently in my third year of bachelor degree for Networking and IT Security.

I would like to join the army either as a Signal Officer or Army Communication and Information Systems Specialist.

I have no prior related work experience. And I heard if you apply as an officer, you would need to go through an interview specifically for officer (I heard it's hard).

So would it be easier to get in as a NCM first and if I like it than I can apply to transfer as an officer later?

Thank you very much everyone! :cdnsalute:

Offline Loachman

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #651 on: September 09, 2017, 06:22:03 »
Welcome to Army.ca.

First advice: If you want to be taken seriously here, change your user name immediately.

Second advice: Start reading though relevant existing threads. Your questions, and many that you've not even thought of yet, have been discussed many times before. There is no need to rehash them. Doing so adds clutter to the Site, makes it harder for people who search, and costs responders their valuable time. Should you, despite an honest and thorough search, not find an answer, then post in the most relevant existing thread (if there is one) and somebody will provide. We are a helpful and supportive bunch, but we expect people to do their homework as well.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #652 on: September 09, 2017, 07:19:53 »
So would it be easier to get in as a NCM first and if I like it than I can apply to transfer as an officer later?

Worth achieving higher NCM rank before going officer?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=87609.0
3 pages.

Reservist process to change from NCM to Officer 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=105901.0

Transfer from NCM to Officer 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=123732.0

NCM -> Officer 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=87590.0

Changing from NCM to officer 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=111408.0

Officer vs. NCM 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=68813.0

Joining the reserve as an officer versus joining as an NCM 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=23749.0

NCM to Officer process 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=45209.0

etc...
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 07:27:47 by mariomike »

Offline Darkmachine

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #653 on: January 19, 2018, 00:45:08 »
Hello everyone.

I am posting in hopes of getting some assistance from more experienced personnel. I am 35 years old and my entire life have been extremely fascinated with the military, representing my country, and fighting for the good of mankind. I have had lots of extensive training in close quarter combat, weapons training (have my PAL but have trained additionally with experts), I have also had the priviledge of knowing and training with individuals that served overseas for the CAF from 3RCR and were deployed to Afghanistan in both the 2003 Kabul deployment and Kandahar in 2008, have also trained with individuals who trained and taught the counter terrorism courses for the IDF, I did this because I was involved in a hostage situation where I was actually a hostage myself, held at gunpoint etc, and was able to get out of that situation, thankfully. At 35 I have secured myself financially so I am not joining the army because of the money, I could care less if I was paid or not, I just want to represent my country and do something that helps the lives of others. I recently (last week), completed my aptitude test and according to the recruiters scored extremely high in every department so I was told every trade is open to me, however, NCM trades as 18 years ago I decided not to do University - now my objective was to in the long run join CANSOFCOM and be a member of the special forces. At this point I am torn because I don't know what the best route is. I was initially interested in Intelligence but was told it will be almost impossible to go from intelligence to CANSOFCAM as they look for battle ready personnel. So here is my question, if I do Infantry, it's basically 14 months of training (what level of training will I get? How extensive will it be?), and am I losing anything by not getting my Uni degree and becoming an Officer? Do we really lose anything by not being an Officer? What is the core difference between NCM Infantry and an Officer? And also, if I was to join the Reserves, would I still get all of the same equal level of training as Ref Force? Just looking for some help here, I am not doing this for money at all, I am doing this because I want to protect my country, be the best I can be, and have the best combat training possible, was even considering doing the entire course at Tundra or Academi as well. Essentially I want to become a solid soldier, one that can make a heavy difference for his platoon and save lives. So my question is, Reg Force or Reserve? Is there any difference in the training provided? And NCM or do I do the Uni degree and become an Officer? I heard Officers are really not in the trenches and NCM are the door kickers - any help would be appreciated, and I sincerely apologize if I have asked any stupid questions.

Thank you!
Recruting Center: Barrie, Ontario
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: NCM
Trade Choice 1: Infantry
Trade Choice 2: Armoured Soldier
Trade Choice 3: Intelligence Operator
Application Date: November 19, 2017
First Contact: November 27, 2017
Aptitude/CFAT Completed: Passed January 15, 2018
Position Selected: Infantry January 22, 2018
Interview Completed: May 17, 2018
Medical Test Completed: June 21, 2018
PT Test Completed:
Sworn In:
Basic Training Begins:

Offline mariomike

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #654 on: January 19, 2018, 08:55:47 »
So my question is, Reg Force or Reserve?

Do you want a part-time job, or a full-time career?

Friendly Advice for potential Infantry Officer candidates 
https://navy.ca/forums/index.php?topic=99437.0
5 pages.

Life as an Infantry Soldier?
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,1897.0.html
7 pages.

etc...

Many more Infantry discussions in the Infantry forum.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 09:01:09 by mariomike »

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #655 on: January 19, 2018, 09:39:41 »
Hello everyone.

I am posting in hopes of getting some assistance from more experienced personnel. I am 35 years old and my entire life have been extremely fascinated with the military, representing my country, and fighting for the good of mankind. I have had lots of extensive training in close quarter combat, weapons training (have my PAL but have trained additionally with experts), I have also had the priviledge of knowing and training with individuals that served overseas for the CAF from 3RCR and were deployed to Afghanistan in both the 2003 Kabul deployment and Kandahar in 2008, have also trained with individuals who trained and taught the counter terrorism courses for the IDF, I did this because I was involved in a hostage situation where I was actually a hostage myself, held at gunpoint etc, and was able to get out of that situation, thankfully. At 35 I have secured myself financially so I am not joining the army because of the money, I could care less if I was paid or not, I just want to represent my country and do something that helps the lives of others.


I recently (last week), completed my aptitude test and according to the recruiters scored extremely high in every department so I was told every trade is open to me, however, NCM trades as 18 years ago I decided not to do University - now my objective was to in the long run join CANSOFCOM and be a member of the special forces. At this point I am torn because I don't know what the best route is. I was initially interested in Intelligence but was told it will be almost impossible to go from intelligence to CANSOFCAM as they look for battle ready personnel.

That's completely untrue.  Any trade in the CAF can try out to be an Operator/Assaulter.  As well, there are Int Op/Int O positions within CANSOFCOM.  At this point, don't think to much about CANSOFCOM, as it is not in your immediate future.  Pick a trade you will enjoy doing, as you may not make it into CANSOFCOM or your feelings about doing it might change once you get in. 

So here is my question, if I do Infantry, it's basically 14 months of training (what level of training will I get? How extensive will it be?), and am I losing anything by not getting my Uni degree and becoming an Officer? Do we really lose anything by not being an Officer? What is the core difference between NCM Infantry and an Officer? And also, if I was to join the Reserves, would I still get all of the same equal level of training as Ref Force?

Infantry is not 14 months of training to be fully trained.  As for what level/extensive it will be, I'm not quite sure what you're asking for here.  You will be trained to the standard set for DP1 Infantryman or Infantry Officer(DP1.1/DP1.2), which is the basics of your job required to be employable once you arrive in battalion.  You will gain more experience and skills while at your unit.  As for NCM or Officer, its really what you want to do, both are good options.  Officers are immediately placed into a leadership position, where as NCMs can work their way up to leadership. The Reserves would not get an equal level of training to the Regular Force(they do different courses initially, part time, etc), however there are opportunities(not always) to go on exercise with the Regular Force, as well as deployments(if any are available). 


Just looking for some help here, I am not doing this for money at all, I am doing this because I want to protect my country, be the best I can be, and have the best combat training possible, was even considering doing the entire course at Tundra or Academi as well. Essentially I want to become a solid soldier, one that can make a heavy difference for his platoon and save lives. So my question is, Reg Force or Reserve? Is there any difference in the training provided? And NCM or do I do the Uni degree and become an Officer? I heard Officers are really not in the trenches and NCM are the door kickers - any help would be appreciated, and I sincerely apologize if I have asked any stupid questions.

You've mentioned the money thing a couple times already, no need to be repetitive.  Also, Tundra and Academi do not offer Infantry training, what I assume you meant was their various driver/shooting/Close Protection type courses offered.  As for Regular Force or Reserve, this is an easy one, do you want to be full time or part time(and do a civilian job for your career).  Yes, there is a difference between Reg Force and Reserve training.

Officers, are in the fight with the NCMs, although their time doing that is more limited compared to an NCM due to their career progression.

Also, if you are this motivated/gung ho to be a Soldier, serve, save lives, etc you missed out on quite the opportunity as we were involved in quite a long lasting conflict up until a couple years ago.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 09:48:01 by Pickle Rick »

Offline Living the Dream

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #656 on: May 31, 2018, 20:56:19 »
Hi Guys and Gals,

Just wondering if switching my DEO application to an NCM would be a good idea in my situation. Here is a brief summary:
- Trades of choice are Ms Eng (1st) and NWO(2nd)
- Applied in the summer of 2015;
- With delays and everything got my Security Clearance sorted out in around May 2017.
- Did my interview and medical in June-July 2017.
- On the Competition List, since Aug-Sept 2017.
- Heard nothing so far and getting tired of waiting to be honest.

I have no information on how competitive my application is, and my career counselor is impossible to get a hold off to ask a few questions in person and have a discussion. I was thinking that it shouldn't be such a big deal to talk to the person who is in charge of your file, but apparently it is.

Just solely based on the fact that I didn't get any offers over the past year, I am estimating that my application is not rated very highly for a DEO position, or I don't know how else to explain it. I guess I need some advice. I would like to hear a few opinions before I head down to the CFRC in person trying to get someone's attention there.

- Shall I continue waiting for a DEO position some more?
- Shall I lower my expectations and switch to an NCM (Mar. Tech.)? Personally, I don't mind learning the job from the bottom, and it is an in-demand occupation. This is what my original application was before I got talked by the career counselor to apply as a DEO.

My background is:
- Double Master's Degree:
  + Applied Physics and Math
  + Business Administration
- 8-9 years of experience in software, but closely related to shipbuilding. I don't write code. I talk to marine engineers and naval architects.
- Put in about 2,000 hrs/year in volunteering service with RCM-SAR.
- Also volunteer for Junior Achievement about 100hrs/year.
- Dual citizenship
- 36 yo

Thank you!

Offline mariomike

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #657 on: May 31, 2018, 21:03:22 »
Just wondering if switching my DEO application to an NCM would be a good idea in my situation.

You may find discussions like this of interest,

I need help choosing...Direct Entry Officer or NCM with a masters degree?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=101210.0
2 pages.

NCM vs. OFFICER?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=85111.0

NCM vs Officer enrollment 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=28327.0

Curious how everyone decided on their trade or Officer/NCM 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=101210.0
2 pages.

Comparing the job of Officer vs NCM [MERGED]
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=171.0
25 pages.

etc...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 21:10:12 by mariomike »

Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #658 on: June 01, 2018, 01:03:44 »
...

- Shall I lower my expectations ...

...

You could go to an information session at your local reserve unit. You can be an officer in a reserve unit, literally work full time hours, and receive the same benefits as a regular force member.
Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: Officer (DEO)
Occupation choice: Logistics Officer
Current application: March 28, 2017
CFAT: Previously completed in November 2011
Interview: July 11, 2017
Medical: August 2017
Competition list: October/November 2017
Position Offered: May 25, 2018
Swearing In: August 21, 2018
BMOQ: August 25, 2018
BMOQ Graduation: November 16, 2018
OFP: December 2019

Offline Living the Dream

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #659 on: June 01, 2018, 02:20:20 »
Thank you, guys. Nice selection of discussions. I will drop by my CfRc tomorrow to check in.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #660 on: June 01, 2018, 05:23:03 »
You could go to an information session at your local reserve unit. You can be an officer in a reserve unit, literally work full time hours, and receive the same benefits as a regular force member.

I would ask specifically at the unit about that. 

Unless you're working a Class C contract, and I'm not sure how many of those there are in the PRes world nowadays, you don't get paid the same.  If you're working Class B (still "full time") you're only getting paid 85%.  Also, Reservists do not get the same benefits as Reg Force folks.
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #661 on: June 01, 2018, 15:45:40 »
I would ask specifically at the unit about that. 

... Also, Reservists do not get the same benefits as Reg Force folks.

I asked them about that when I went to an information session at my local Reserve unit and they told me that it does for Class C. I was skeptical since it's the Reserves.
Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: Officer (DEO)
Occupation choice: Logistics Officer
Current application: March 28, 2017
CFAT: Previously completed in November 2011
Interview: July 11, 2017
Medical: August 2017
Competition list: October/November 2017
Position Offered: May 25, 2018
Swearing In: August 21, 2018
BMOQ: August 25, 2018
BMOQ Graduation: November 16, 2018
OFP: December 2019

Offline TrunkMonkey315

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #662 on: June 01, 2018, 16:01:57 »
Class C do receive more benefits but most likely your only going to see that contract if your deployed.

Offline Living the Dream

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Re: Role of Officer vs job of NCM [Merged]
« Reply #663 on: June 01, 2018, 17:25:11 »
Hi Everyone,

Just a quick update. I walked into my CFRC today and talked to a recruiter there. A few things I learned today that might be of benefit to other applicants:
- A 1-year wait for DEO applicants is nothing unusual. It is not necessarily an indication of a weak application. It's just how timing works out for certain occupations. There is a lot of DEO applicants that have been waiting who are in a similar situation.
- The last DEO BMOQ for 2018 will start on September 10th.
- Most offers to go on September BMOQ will likely be made by the end of June 2018.
- If you are applying as a DEO and if you don't hear by the end of this June, chances are, you will not be in this September BMOQ.
- You will, likely, need to wait until 2019 or beyond it.

If anybody is interested, in the very specific case of my application, I was strongly advised not to switch to NCM until the end of June, but wait for 1 more month. If I am not selected as a DEO in 2018, CFRC will be very happy to process me as an NCM. Interview and medical will need to be redone, but that is not a big deal. So far, everything sounded fair to me.

Have a great weekend everyone!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 18:38:06 by Living the Dream »