Author Topic: Syria Superthread [merged]  (Read 667092 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1875 on: April 26, 2018, 20:45:15 »
Russia doesn't spend millions of dollars to build a few prototypes then dick around testing it for 5 years with lots of studies. They identify a need, find something then throw it into combat to test it.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1876 on: April 26, 2018, 21:00:38 »
Ever seen their newer arctic bases?  Massive.  Quite a bit more substantial than the ATC up in Resolute.
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Offline Once_a_TQ

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1877 on: May 14, 2018, 07:11:36 »
Russia, after Netanyahu visit, backs off Syria S-300 missile supplies

https:/www.yahoo.com/news/russia-netanyahu-visit-backs-off-syria-300-missile-085144587.html
(Reuters, 11 May 18) Russia is not in talks with the Syrian government about supplying advanced S-300 ground-to-air missiles and does not think they are needed, the Izvestia daily cited a top Kremlin aide as saying on Friday, in an apparent U-turn by Moscow.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1878 on: September 18, 2018, 00:40:54 »
Article Link

Syrian regime accidentally shoots down Russian military plane

A Russian maritime patrol aircraft with multiple personnel on board was inadvertently shot down by Syrian regime anti-aircraft artillery on Monday after the Syrians came under attack by Israeli missiles, according to a US official with knowledge of the incident.

The US official said the regime was actually trying to stop a barrage of Israeli missiles. A second official confirmed that Israel was responsible for the missile strikes on the Syrian regime.

The Russian state news agency TASS reported that a Russian IL-20 military aircraft with 14 personnel on board disappeared over the Mediterranean on Monday. According to TASS, the ministry of defense specified that "the mark of IL-20 went off the radars disappeared during the attack of four Israeli F-16 aircraft on Syrian targets in the province of Latakia."

The Israelis had fired multiple missiles against targets in the coastal area of Latakia where Russian has based much of its military presence, including aircraft. In an attempt to strike back against the Israelis, the Syrians launched extensive anti-aircraft fire, the official said and the Russian aircraft was hit.

The US found out about the incident because Syrian forces broadcast an emergency search and rescue radio call on an international frequency. The US then got a direct message from another country about the type of aircraft and circumstances of the incident. The official would not identify that country, but it is likely that Russia is the only nation that would know exactly what type of aircraft was shot down.

A spokesman for the Pentagon told CNN that the missiles were not fired by the US military but would not speak as to who was behind the strikes. An Israel Defense Forces spokesman declined to comment on the reports.

The aircraft was shot down by an anti-aircraft system the Russians sold to the Syrians several years ago, the official said. The Syrian air defense network in western Syria is very densely populated with anti-aircraft missile and radar systems.

In February, the two-man crew of an Israeli F-16 ejected from their aircraft when a missile exploded near them, damaging their aircraft as they finished conducting a mission against Syrian forces.

An Israeli defense official told CNN earlier this month that Israel has struck Syria 200 times in the past 18 months to prevent the deployment of Iranian weapons in the region.
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Offline CBH99

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1879 on: September 18, 2018, 01:06:50 »
Israel might have been successful in persuading the Russians not to provide any additional S-300 systems to Syria.  If there was any persuasion still needed, I think the Syrians just finished tying the bow. 
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1880 on: September 18, 2018, 10:34:55 »
I suspect someone in the Syrian Air Defense is about to be retired early and won't be needing any benefits. Darth Putin will need to be appeased.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1881 on: September 18, 2018, 11:19:09 »
According to a regular Russian Twitter poster, "Military Advisor," the Israeli F-16s used the 'Coot' and the French Navy FREMM-class frigate to conceal their approach, before dropping a series of GBU-39 bombs on the targets.


I've found him to be somewhat biased but generally reliable for facts.   :2c:

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1882 on: September 18, 2018, 17:50:40 »
According to Russian MoD reports there were 15 crew members on board vice the 14 reported in earlier statements. 

Here are two separate reports that I found that went into more detail about what may have had occurred.

The first report is from The Aviationist.  

Quote
According to the IDF spokesperson, the F-16s were already in Israeli airspace when the Il-20 was shot down, anyway, “Israel will share all the relevant information with the Russian Government to review the incident and to confirm the facts in this inquiry.”

    4. The Syrian anti-air batteries fired indiscriminately and from what we understand, did not bother to ensure that no Russian planes were in the air.

    — Israel Defense Forces (@IDFSpokesperson) September 18, 2018

The second report is from The Drive. Their is assessment is as follows:

Quote
The idea that Israel used the IL-20 for cover is questionable at best. Just look at the chart above, the timing of such an operation without coordination with the Il-20's crew would have to of been uncanny. What likely happened is that Israel executed its standoff strike from a launch position over the Mediterranean and the Il-20 happened to stumble into the area.

Also, according to the TheDrive the Russian Mod is also stating that the IAF was GBU-39 SDBs.

Both sites state that the Coot-A was hit by a S-200/SA-5 Gammon missile. The SA is an older Russian system first introduced in the mid-60's and would know be considered obsolete.

The chart the TheDrive refers to is shown below. Note that with Russian symbology Russian forces are in red and NATO/IAF in blue.

My only comment is that the COOT-A should have been broadcasting some kind of IFF signal and the Syrians should have been able to track it.


« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 17:55:37 by Retired AF Guy »
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1883 on: September 18, 2018, 20:54:42 »
The Syrian forces currently are using the Vega (S200VE) variant of the missile, which can flash from cold to off the rails in 10-12 seconds if in working order. With all of its rather large radar fingerprint, the battery itself would have (or should have) had a good enough radar view in 2D. 
 Assume that the IL20 just popped up suddenly (it was out over the east conducting EOB flight for the previous 3 hours,  its location before that was south/southwest), there would have been sufficient information available to the battery commander that this specific aircraft was not an Israeli formation at the time preceding the shoot down.   As mentioned above, the IAF F16's had already left the scene by the time the S200 missiles were fired and we have to assume that the Syrian battery had sufficient information to make a decision about engaging aircraft that already left the battlespace.  Why they engaged is another story, I guess.

There was an RAF Rivet Joint in the air crossing over northern Israel at the time this happened, they will have a fairly detailed ELINT synopsis of the event that most people in the world will never see.  Every Coalition ship with a decent EW suite sailing in the eastern Med is grabbing signals as well. The Rivet Joint would have, at a minimum, recorded the Square Pair fire control radar and the S Band radar (Back Trap IIRC), whatever they are using these days for VHF (i forget) and probably  an E band radar ++ all of the un-wired comms between between stations.  Lots of EW intel will be available for analysis, not much of which will see the light of day.

correction "east"
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 20:58:57 by whiskey601 »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1884 on: September 18, 2018, 21:02:36 »
My takeaway from this was - 'if you think that our Aurora crews aren't in danger during their sojourns in the ME, you would be wrong.'
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1885 on: September 18, 2018, 21:12:02 »

If an Aurora tried to land at a Russian airbase in Syria ....
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1886 on: September 18, 2018, 22:58:39 »
My takeaway from this was - 'if you think that our Aurora crews aren't in danger during their sojourns in the ME, you would be wrong.'

There were very well-defined "go/no go" areas, shall we say...and pretty good Int before you went wheels-in-the-wheel, and during your VUL time.  ESM also is a great "situational awareness" tool.

The real danger was the unknown stuff;  MANPADs, 57mm.  They only had to get lucky once...
« Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 23:14:39 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1887 on: September 18, 2018, 23:23:10 »
The Syrian forces currently are using the Vega (S200VE) variant of the missile, which can flash from cold to off the rails in 10-12 seconds if in working order. With all of its rather large radar fingerprint, the battery itself would have (or should have) had a good enough radar view in 2D. 
 Assume that the IL20 just popped up suddenly (it was out over the east conducting EOB flight for the previous 3 hours,  its location before that was south/southwest), there would have been sufficient information available to the battery commander that this specific aircraft was not an Israeli formation at the time preceding the shoot down.   As mentioned above, the IAF F16's had already left the scene by the time the S200 missiles were fired and we have to assume that the Syrian battery had sufficient information to make a decision about engaging aircraft that already left the battlespace.  Why they engaged is another story, I guess.

There was an RAF Rivet Joint in the air crossing over northern Israel at the time this happened, they will have a fairly detailed ELINT synopsis of the event that most people in the world will never see.  Every Coalition ship with a decent EW suite sailing in the eastern Med is grabbing signals as well. The Rivet Joint would have, at a minimum, recorded the Square Pair fire control radar and the S Band radar (Back Trap IIRC), whatever they are using these days for VHF (i forget) and probably  an E band radar ++ all of the un-wired comms between between stations.  Lots of EW intel will be available for analysis, not much of which will see the light of day.

correction "east"

The amount of time they've been flying/operating in the area, I'd assume deconfliction/etc would have been worked out longgggggggggggggg ago.  I can see a mis-ID if the COOT suffered some kind of major emergency, and they were EMCON silent in all aspects because crap was all on fire or something.  I don't know how they operate, but will assume it is somewhat similar to how we do business.  If they're (Russian crews) used to seeing the same target/kill RADARs, well...they might not react the same way we would.  Might have been "ops normal" for them.  All spec, of course...in the image posted above, they were "inbound" though.  HI/HA looking to the RADAR controllers?
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1888 on: September 24, 2018, 21:10:26 »
I don't know? The inbound path was from the sea. With the complete Vega configuration (if they have the upgraded kit) at  longer range the grazing angle of that battery site (I'm looking at a contour map) would be smaller so the reflections are stronger and the target echo of airborne objects should be far above free space values. More definition. It could be the Coot was off course or still making tactical maneuvers because the F16's were behind it for a time. That could neuter the deconfliction, but it would not account for many other factors.  I have to say my experience here is with ELINT finger printing of ground based systems, and not much else. The behavior of the components of the  battery as a system I understand, the flying tactics not at all.  We should not discount the possibility that comms channels may  have been subject to jamming etc.
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Offline 211RadOp

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1889 on: January 16, 2019, 13:15:40 »
U.S. soldiers among the dead in northern Syria suicide bombing

Explosion in Manjib comes after Trump announces withdrawal from Syria

Thomson Reuters · Posted: Jan 16, 2019 8:42 AM ET | Last Updated: an hour ago

A blast struck near U.S.-led coalition forces on Wednesday in Syria's northern city of Manbij, and a war monitor said 16 people had been killed.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitoring group first reported the explosion, with the U.S-led coalition confirming that U.S. forces were killed.

"U.S. service members were killed during an explosion while conducting a routine patrol in Syria today. We are still gathering information and will share additional details at a later time," it said.

A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters four U.S. soldiers were killed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/syria-manjib-explosion-1.4980050
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1890 on: January 16, 2019, 14:02:35 »
The death toll will rise but until all  the next of kin notificatins are concluded,I doubt that a more conclusive number will be released. One thing is certain,ISIS is not defeated and this attack will probably scrap any withdrawal until later in the year is my best guess.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1891 on: January 18, 2019, 10:21:47 »
DoD has released the names of 3 of the fallen.

https://dod.defense.gov/News/N...-resolve-casualties/

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1892 on: January 18, 2019, 17:48:59 »

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1893 on: January 22, 2019, 17:05:22 »
Captain Turnbull was seriously injured during the bombing and is in very critical condition in Landstuhl.

https://www.stripes.com/news/american-soldier-wounded-in-manbij-attack-fighting-for-his-life-1.565512



Capt. Jonathan Turnbull of Gaylord, Mich., is pictured here as a first lieutenant deployed with Apache Troop, 3rd Squadron, 7th United States Cavalry to Combat Outpost Shir Khan, Afghanistan, in a screenshot of a December 2012 holiday greetings video. Turnbull was badly wounded in a bombing in Manbij, Syria, on Wednesday, Jan. 16, and was said to be in serious condition at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany on Monday, Jan. 22, 2019.
COURTESY OF U.S. ARMY

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #1894 on: January 22, 2019, 18:51:16 »
Thoughts and prayers to family and friends of those killed, and to a full and timely recovery by CPT Turnbull. :salute:

Regards
G2G