Author Topic: Sig Op QL5  (Read 48232 times)

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Fader

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2003, 20:44:00 »
I didn‘t get RTU‘d.  I think I got blacklisted from CFSCE forever.  This summer, I got into a lot of crap for what I wrote here, but for nothing else.  

Other than that, I didn‘t do anything that broke the rules.  None of my actions ever resulted in a blade towards anyone.  I did my fair share, no more, no less; just as I said I would.  True enough, I didn‘t do what a lot of people do and go above and beyond, but I did what I was supposed to.

Veteran`s son

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2003, 20:54:00 »
Lui

Does that mean that you have to change to a different trade in the Reserves?  :confused:

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2003, 21:19:00 »
Ouch. Thats brutal man. Looks like someone sunk your battleship.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline Spr.Earl

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2003, 22:50:00 »
Lui after reading your post‘s I suggest you quit.

Thud F‘s like you don‘t last long and if they do they end up getting other‘s hurt or degarding the Force‘s and those of us who give 110% and know and comprehend what it take‘s to wear our Uniform.

Your lucky this is not the Force‘s of the mid 70‘s early 80‘s.

I was taught by Sapper‘s who served in Korea and were hard as nail‘s but fare as long as you kept your mouth shut and learnt.

But you,the cornucopia of knowledge of all thing‘s Military have not learnt and deserve what you get.

Enough said.
THE PRECEDING POST AND OTHERS MADE BY MYSELF ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWS, NOT FOR REPRODUCTION, NOT FOR CUT AND PASTE OF ANY PORTION THEREOF, NO QUOTES ARE PERMITTED ELSEWHERE,ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EXCLUSIVELY IN THIS WEB FORUM.




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Willis052

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2003, 22:54:00 »
I would like to start off by sending a congratulations out to Lui. For what? being one of the few members of the herd to figure out going above and beyond, simply ain‘t worth it.

I believe Lui has probably caught some unnecessary, and certainly unjustified grief here.
First off, the reason for the always unstable drinking policy at CFSCE has more to do with unstable commandants, and paranoid SSM‘s than it does with a bad T-Shirt and the occasional hangover. If Lui, at his own admission drank a 26/week on course I would be confident that the  senior staff members  would not see fit to quash the drinking. Taking the drinking privliges from students at CFSCE is now, has been in the past, and will remain to be in the future, nothing more than the carrot on the stick.

However more disturbing are the comments made by the self proclaimed Army Godfather. What makes Lui such a disgrace? That he spoke out against the Comm Reserve. That‘s not out of line. It‘s more common to here about how pathetic and sad the state of affairs are, rather than how great the situation is. Or is it that he spoke out against CFSCE? CFSCE is a joke. Everybody knows it. I don‘t know a reservist who walk‘s away going, " Wow, after that I am a better soldier, and a better citizen, I can now represent my uniform better." Give me a break. There are only three thing you learn at CFSCE. Staff administers the infamous CFSCE C*^K, the administrators are unstable and generally have been promoted to their level of incompetence, and course mates are your brothers (eh hem, and sisters). Him realizing that the tough guy fassads portrayed by instructors are nothing more than Real TV crossed with an entertaining dinner theater. That is to say that you take nothing away from it. Something for you to remember is that having pride in your uniform and trade is far different than having respect for people above you. Lui is correct, the military only demands a respect for the rank, which means I will say yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. Whether I think the individual giving the order deserves respect is a matter of my own opinion and has nothing to do with whether or not I have pride in my uniform. Most of all I find upsetting, but yet in the same light humorous, are the hopes and wishes of one angry Sgt. who longs to go back to the days of in the field executions, and corporal punishment. Just the fact that you are so intelectually myopic is disturbing. What he just said was that all the yelling and screaming in the world will not win your hearts and minds campaign. A 2 hour run that makes me vomit does not make me respect you. You threatening to shove a boot up my but does not make me have pride in my uniform, and having half a brain to see that the only good reason to join the CF is to pay for your schooling, makes him a visionary, not a disgrace.

You can not torture a man who has no hope.

Offline muskrat89

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2003, 23:10:00 »
GK - why don‘t you tell us how you really feel?

Lui - You think you got blacklisted? What the heck does that mean? Some unofficial barring from future attendance, via a hush-hush conversation in the Officers‘ Mess?

As my father, the old fashioned , not GK-effective, RSM would say - "If you‘re looking for sympathy, its in the dictionary, between **** and syphilis" LOL  Your comments on this board, I feel, were purposely laced with "in your face" cockiness - comments that you knew would push the buttons of some of the members. Even before you left, you were often contemptuous of al things military. Play with fire, you‘re gonna get burnt...
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Offline Spr.Earl

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2003, 23:27:00 »
Well GK I see you have 5 month‘s more in than Lui.
Who has 2yrs in.

Even though we Engineer‘s are not as hard Corp as the Infantry,even we have the B.S. on course and put up with it,but we all still have to follow doctrin.

It‘s the way of the beast,if you don‘t like it leave.It‘s there to teach you tolerance,if you can‘t take it on course then what would you be like in combat?

0 this E15 over,no answer,Lui don‘t agree with the radio procedure?,Me and my section are killed by friendly fire.Er what then?

Your post does not wash.
THE PRECEDING POST AND OTHERS MADE BY MYSELF ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWS, NOT FOR REPRODUCTION, NOT FOR CUT AND PASTE OF ANY PORTION THEREOF, NO QUOTES ARE PERMITTED ELSEWHERE,ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EXCLUSIVELY IN THIS WEB FORUM.




UBIQUE
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Willis052

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2003, 23:40:00 »
Muskrat, just to set a couple of things straight. I haven‘t left yet. I am contemptuous of all things beauracratic. I am contemptuous of people who hide behind their rank. And finally I am contemptuous of the fact that accountability works only one way. However the military could quickly be characterized by these attributes.

As for the comment made by Lui about being blacklisted from CFSCE being a smoke filled back room conversation between pinky and the brain does not do justice the deceit portrayed by the afforementioned members. The Comm Reserve being a fairly small organization allows for what one would call an old boys club to materialize. With the constant re-hiring of the same members year after year it would certainly allow for a poisoned atmosphere upon Lui‘s return to CFSCE. The SSM has not changed over in many years, and instructors that were there before are only more likely to be promoted and given positions allowing for more irresponsible abuses of authority. So certainly there may not be a "blacklist" but I think we are all intelligent enough to know that the military grapevine is one that grows quickly, and out of control. Before ya know it Lui will be accused of the Kennedy assasination. Likely with the way CFSCE works they will try him and put him to death before attempting to assemble some evidence. However in some cases, that I know of, the blacklist is a memo, e-mail, or simply a verbal notification that you are no longer allowed to continue training at CFSCE. Perhaps one should be on the "blacklist" before pretending to know what it is.

Offline muskrat89

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2003, 00:00:00 »
That‘s pretty funny - you haven‘t earned the right to preach to me, little boy....

If you detest it, get out - you‘re not impressing anybody here
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Willis052

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2003, 00:05:00 »
It is not the military I detest, it is exactly the attitude portrayed by you. "you haven‘t earned the right to preach to me little boy..." Go ahead and hide behind your age and, apparently experience. You eminate all that is military, people like you answer the question "why is the sky blue?" by saying "because I said so". Congratulations I am sure you won soldier of the year frequently. Hats off.

Offline Spr.Earl

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2003, 00:09:00 »
Muskrat it‘s no use arguing with Sprog‘s here the only way is face to face.

Lui and et al,if you feel you have not been treated fairly on course there are route‘s you can take.
I have done it even though I didn‘t win,the next year there were change‘s.

Stop whinning and soldier on!
THE PRECEDING POST AND OTHERS MADE BY MYSELF ARE MY PERSONAL VIEWS, NOT FOR REPRODUCTION, NOT FOR CUT AND PASTE OF ANY PORTION THEREOF, NO QUOTES ARE PERMITTED ELSEWHERE,ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EXCLUSIVELY IN THIS WEB FORUM.




UBIQUE
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PTE Gruending

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2003, 00:58:00 »
Lui,
So what happened? You posted to this forum on base, and somewhere there read what you had to say? Which post was it?

So what sort of disciplinary action has been taken against you?

Offline OLD SCHOOL

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2003, 03:23:00 »
Bunch ‘o‘ wankers.
I am confident that these pukes are not the norm and I can rest easy knowing that they weed themselves out.
Yeah, you pukes are the salvation for the reserves as you have it all figured out.
Good luck anywhere with your skillsets.
The boys I worked with were all 5 by 5 and you fellows ain‘t it.

Sarge

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2003, 08:07:00 »
G.K.
Canada is a democratic country without forced military service. If you‘re in the military and don‘t like it, or you don‘t like taking orders, or don‘t like giving a 100% effort - noone‘s stopping you from getting the f*** out. Take off the uniform that some of us take pride in, and trade it in for a McDonald‘s uniform.  I‘m sure you‘re idealistic and superior intelligent comments would be greatly appreciated while putting someones Bic Mac together.
As for you Lui, and those like you. If you were ever to try that sh** in a civilian corportation, you‘re ***  would be on the street so fast. I think you‘ll find that, even though you received some (well-deserved) punishment, the military is very forgiving. If it weren‘t, you wouldn‘t have a uniform to disgrace anymore.
And, for those of you constantly criticize military leadership - it‘s pretty easy to criticize something you don‘t have the balls to do yourself.  :cdn:

newfiemafia

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2003, 08:39:00 »
GK,
By the sounds of your comments, aybe ou and Lui should name yourselves Pinky and the Brain.  The Comm Reserve staff conduct themselves in a professional manner.  Maybe your military conduct is on par with Cpl Lui‘s.  Looking at your profile, it states that you have been in the reserves for 2 and a half years. Why are you still a PTE?  You sound disgruntled.  Were you ever RTU‘ed?  Are you even qualified 052?  The SSM usually changes every few years.  Get some TI before making judgements of ranks beyond your own.  You are confused between a contempt for bureaucracy and the disrespect of the military rank structure.
  :salute:

Dune_Op

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2003, 09:02:00 »
I know what you‘re going through...  The majority of people on course feel the same way.  It all depends on how bad you want it.  It‘s not the first time someone has been blacklisted.  I myself have had the pleasure.  The only thing that keeps me going is although I may not agree with the military I do have a passion to serve my country, and if thats what they ask of me to put up with then thats what I must do.  I know there is a lot of grade 2 level teaching and treatment of people but look at it this way.  When you‘re posted you won‘t have to deal with it anymore.  You‘ll be a person again.  You‘ll foget about CFSCE fast enough.  As for VR.  Goodluck.  LOL.. Many people have tried on my course when they found out it was going to be 6 months of basic training again but none have succeded.  So just roll with the punches and know that you‘re not alone.  Everyone on your course should be helping you deal with it.    :cdn:

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2003, 12:12:00 »
.>>d
There are no wolves on Fenris

Willis052

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2003, 14:06:00 »
Sarge,
I can only assume that some high school kid at Mcdonalds upset you by speaking above your own admitted intellectual level. And FYI, I run, and administer my own company, and do have individuals working for me. Therefore I feel  qualified to criticize leadership. On the battlefield or in the business place, the principals are the same. However, all I can reccomend for you to make up for your intellectual shortcomings is a good discussion on perhaps Plato or Aristotle. You can do this once you retire and find that your skillsets are likely only enough to get you that coveted position assembling Big Mac‘s. Get Bent.

Mr. Seumas Soprano,
The professionalism that you are speaking of, would that be gangbangs in students rooms? sounds proffesional, eh. Or would it be an emotional breakdown, with an instructor crying in front of the troops? Does that make you wanna jump out of the trenches? Or is it senior staff fornicating with students that sets the standard for proffesionalism. The list goes on and on. You can‘t tell me about how  professional the staff are, I know otherwise. Fortunately that DOES NOT mean all staff. I believe however I may have been a bit harsh on my initial posting and my point has likely been lost since. I hold the utmost respect for the military rank structure, I cannot speak enough of how important I believe military bearing to be. That is not an issue. The issue at hand is the individuals put in to these positions of authority. So often ego‘s get involved and decisions are made irresponsibly. When I say ego‘s I can use Lui‘s case specifically. Somebody, somewhere saw Lui‘s comments on this board. Someone somewhere got offended. What Lui did is not wrong. Yet because someone didn‘t like what he had to say the hammer came down on him. Does it seem right that censorship can hinge on what some officer‘s opinion is. Do these individuals believe they are important enough to stand in the way of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. They are your rights and mine and these individuals are a danger to you and me. The last time the CF tried to cover something up and take it away from the public eye the Airborne ended up disbanded. Likely because of the same proffessional conduct you speak of. Rank structure is the foundation for the military. But remember, Stalin and Hitler were both the ultimate commanders of their armies, does that mean they were proper? One must remember wearing a rank does not make you right it just means you have a bigger stick.

Perhaps if one of these so-called leaders had taken a look at why Lui‘s attitude was so poor they probably would have discovered that it is not because he is sub-par, lacking, or weak. They may have realized that he was just one of the few trying to make it better for everyone as a soldier. Even the highly sensitive higher ups that saw his comments as a national security breach; or something like that. I can vouch for the fact that he is a decent soldier, and a better citizen. People forget that attitude is a reflection of leadership.

A thought to remember: Canadian Soldiers subject themselves to tasks higher than most any individuals in society. We willingly give up some of the rights that our fellow citzens enjoy. Should we then not be the first amongst equals when it comes to the few rights and freedoms we have left?

hoganshero

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #43 on: August 21, 2003, 20:59:00 »
I have to admit I can see some valid points to both sides of this argument. I agree with there being an old boys club in the reserves. Nothing like seeing the COs son get the soldier of the year award and being forced to parade to see it presented to him by his own father. As regards making things better for your fellow soldier; there are channels for this. I don‘t agree with other posters dressing up what Lui was doing as some type of magnanimous act of self sacrifice. He was dogging it and dogging it hard. he got what he deserved.

Offline gryphon664

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #44 on: August 21, 2003, 22:14:00 »
You know, we all have to try to remember just what the **** we signed on the line for... Was it for the easy money? (If it is, thne buddy, you‘re in the wrong profession, and get the ****  out!) is it for the love of the country? Is it to be able to have the HONOUR of serving your country, because as it was already mentioned, it isn‘t a duty here in canada, it‘s a honour. Listen, I just got back from CFSCE. I was on my threes, and sure, CFSCE does deserve the nickname "Canadian Forces School for **** Enthusiasts" but you learn how to play the game. My MCpl used to piss us off. His favorite line was "you might learn to play the game, but i reserve the right to change the rules at any time, and I also reserve the right not to tell you about the changes in the rules" yes, it ticked us off during inspection, but you know what? these people aren‘t out to get you, they‘re only doing their job, and you know, when you reach their level of experience, and knowledge, then you‘ll have some whinny pte grumbling about his instructors and saying how stuck up they are.

I do admit that there are some people who are out on a powertrip, and those people need to be stopped, but there are also those NCMs that just galavant the forces breaking every rule they can, getting their whole course into ****, because they have no "Espirt de corps" and only give a rat‘s ***  about number one. These are just some bad apples. You don‘t burn down the whole orchard because you have one or 2 bad apples, neither do you burn the whole orchard down because of some bad seedlings. No, you rip them out, and plant better and stronger ones in their place.

Anyways... Just remember why your in this man‘s army. Is it for your glory? Or for the glory of this beautiful country of ours?  :salute:    :cdn:
Velox Versutus Vigilans!

Per Nuntium Ad Victoriam!

PTE Gruending

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #45 on: August 21, 2003, 22:52:00 »
Communication Reserve..... hard courses.... *cough* isnt that an oxymoron? ;-)

Just kidding folks, I really do not know enough about the Army to know; but it seems like all of you siggies are making out Comm to be a really hard trade - full of **** and the like. Is it really compared to the combat arms and such?

hoganshero

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2003, 00:28:00 »
I don‘t think that what is being complained about is the difficulty of the course. What happens at CFSCE, and what it is famous for, is the school‘s insane attention to minutae. If CFSCE could, they would attempt to repeal the laws of physics for the sake of it. At least in some courses what you are asked to do can in fact be done. Many of CFSCE requests cannot. IE not to speak to any member in uniform outside of your course or course staff. Try getting a coffee from the CFSCE canteen without speaking to the guy behind the counter. This was the insane rule during my course as we were allowed to drink at the time. This meant I couldn‘t even phone my parents to let them know I hadn‘t accidently been killed; had my father answered the phone I would have been in breach of the rule technically.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2003, 01:21:00 »
sob my edit went to **** .
Holding someone accountable for something they say on a web site is ****.
Just like the inner circle clubs that decide who gets what course and tasking are.
Commenting on why someone is a private with 2 and a half years in is pretty weak too. I was one for almost 4.
Attacking someone on a personal level is the actions of someone with out anything intelligent to say.
I wonder what the army would be like now if the person who piped up about the clothe the soldier program or the fact that soldiers need more money because they were using food stamps kept his mouth shut or were told to shut up and deal with it. I know i like getting paid almost 50% more than what i did for a day in 1996.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Willis052

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2003, 08:24:00 »
Nobody ever said that Lui was a man of self sacrifice, instead I would see his attitude to be that of self preservation. But the reason Lui has become the poster boy he is for many of the individuals I know, myself included, are these.

 It would be intellectually dishonest to tell yourself that all good soldiers give 110% all the time. That just ain‘t true. The only reason Lui was hung out was because an example needed to be made. It was a quick brutal object lesson the troops could not fail to understand. I believe there object lesson was this. Speak of CFSCE in a negative light, and pay dearly. As for Lui doggin it, eh. If I went to the barracks on any given day I could probably find 2 out of 10 soldiers that don‘t dog it. The other six are trying to survive and do their share, and their share only. This is where Lui falls. The other 2 are generally write offs that can‘t run from the shacks to the Tim Hortons to get their donuts. Make no mistake gentleman Lui is being persecuted because he said something about his attitude on a public site. Not because he was doggin‘ it. By all means had our version of "big brother" persecuted/prosectuted anyone outside of CFSCE for something they said about a military course or anything of the sort the militaries lawyers would have their work cut out for them. But because the military feels that they do not have to be charter compliant, only charter proof, they feel they can abuse their powers, and violate a man‘s right to privacy and stand in the way of free speech. It was those soldiers before us that fought and died to earn us the privilige of having those rights, and at anytime you could be sent to fight for those rights again. Should we not at least be able to exercise our rights. If not than the Canadian Government should re-consider conscription, or perhaps a military state.

Veteran`s son

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Re: Sig Op QL5
« Reply #49 on: August 22, 2003, 08:36:00 »
At the time Lui left CFSCE, had he completed his trades training?

If not, is changing his MOC the only way that he can complete his trades training?