Author Topic: Yikes ! (STAT)  (Read 38986 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Farmboy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 626
  • Provider of quality gear
    • One Shot Tactical Supply
Yikes ! (STAT)
« on: March 12, 2004, 11:34:00 »
Wow, I am amazed at some of the people on here. I thought most of us were supposed to be members of the CF, not kindergarden.

 What got me was two threads where new/young members were hammered with negitive comments. When a moderater first belittles someone and then closes the topic that makes a piece of me hurt.

 What happpened to being a professional?

 Yes I understand that after you have been on a forum for a while you see repeated questions on the same subjects. Take a deep breath before you respond and point them in the right direction.

 Encourage and motivate people to go after their dreams. Don‘t grab it out of the air and stomp on it. Most people will find something else that they like to do along the way, and a few make it all the way.

 Everyone joined or wants to join for different reasons, some want to medics, pastors, lawyers, supply, mechanics,pilots, crewman and yes some of us joined to go all the way. Do you think that you telling people not to aim high helps them or the Forces?

 Everyone should point to the path and say "There is the road, go for it".

     :cdn:

Offline ErorZ

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • New Member
  • *
  • 20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 42
  • MCpl
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2004, 11:52:00 »
Agreed Farmboy, I‘ve noticed alot of that too...

People should remember that if different people didn‘t ask the same qusetions over and over again... you wouldn‘t have a forum anymore... EVERYTHING has been asked before, somewhere!

Offline Dano

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 230
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 290
    • Star trek fan club
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2004, 12:06:00 »
Professionalism is extravagant!

 :)
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
- Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love, 1963

Offline GirlFiredUp

  • Civilian
  • Member
  • ****
  • -5
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 236
  • I work out. I do it so I can eat mcdonalds.
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2004, 12:37:00 »
I like you Farmboy.  You have a good soul.
You can employ men and hire hands to work 'for' you, but you must win their hearts to have them work 'with' you. - Malcolm Forbes

Offline combat_medic

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,537
  • Mod of burninating
    • Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2004, 13:17:00 »
Farmboy: Since you‘re not acquainted with the post that was deleted, prompting the closing of the thread, I‘m going to take what you say with a grain of salt. Also, since you‘re new to both the army and to this forum, I‘ll keep that in mind.

The majority of the people on this forum are trained soldiers with years of experience under their belt. They come here to talk about matters concerning the military, but are continuously bombarded with the same repetitive questions on a daily basis, the vast majority of which could be answered with a 2 minute search on the forum, or on Google. Kids who are lazy and complacent come on here all the time and expect us to do their work for them, because they can‘t we bothered to do a simple web search. Is it any wonder they‘re treated with a measure of hostility?

In addition, a lot of kids with no military experience show up and talk bull about all their knowledge and time in, when really all they know is video games, Vietnam movies, and the gophers they shot with their .22.

I‘m sure you can understand the frustration that these repeated useless requests generate. And, as you progress in your military career, you‘ll find that the dressing downs handed out here are nothing compared to what the same people would give you in real life.

However, the kids who show up with a bit of respect, humility and decorum usually get their questions answered, and are afforded a measure of respect for their intelligence.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline Dano

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 230
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 290
    • Star trek fan club
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2004, 13:29:00 »
Well said.
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
- Martin Luther King Jr., Strength to Love, 1963

Offline Farmboy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 626
  • Provider of quality gear
    • One Shot Tactical Supply
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2004, 14:34:00 »
Quote
Kids who are lazy and complacent come on here all the time and expect us to do their work for them, because they can‘t we bothered to do a simple web search
They can do the search and probably have many times, they don‘t want you to do the work for them, they want you to talk to them. They don‘t know that this probably won‘t happen.

 
Quote
In addition, a lot of kids with no military experience show up and talk bull about all their knowledge and time in, when really all they know is video games, Vietnam movies, and the gophers they shot with their .22.
Yes this does happen alot, however the ideal way to handle it is to post a link or ignore it all together.

 You would agree however that kids and adults that have shot gophers with their .22s probably have more firearm and shooting knowledge than the majority of the Reserves if not the Reg. force.

 Your right I don‘t know what the post was that was deleted however I can and have read all the other posts, and some are pretty harsh in their response.

 I have seen some "dressing downs" so far in the forces but it was never 10 "superiors" making fun of the guy who screwed up.

Offline BOOMER004

  • Member
  • ****
  • -20
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 151
  • 75th Mississauga
    • http://n
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2004, 15:17:00 »
What ever happened to that guy JTF2SNIPER? Pretty bold name for someone with zero mil ex. He was in the process of joining talked some s**t about nothing however did get some questions answered and receved some encouragement about having his heart in the right place. What I‘m getting at is some of these kids feel they need to impress everyone with U.F.I they read in a book. Well I have read the bible but stii can‘t walk on water. Serious questions will get real responses. The C7 C9 debate is about as interesting as the M16 C7 debate.
It is easier to get forgiveness than permission

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 276,371
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,503
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2004, 15:24:00 »
"They can do the search and probably have many times, they don‘t want you to do the work for them, they want you to talk to them. They don‘t know that this probably won‘t happen."

I disagree. You tell someone their name is silly, they can‘t carry 12 knives, can‘t carry their own sawed off grenade launcher or the army isn‘t all about blowing away bad guys and they take an attitude with you, tell you to f off, try and discredit your military experience and act like children who are scolded by their parents. This isn‘t always the case but i‘ve found it happens a lot.   You can tell someone something 100 times and they won‘t listen until you raise your voice. You can‘t handle everyone with kid glows my friend. before you judge the people who have been here a while walk a little bit in their shoes. 99% of the time i‘ve seen people confronted with the comment "You could have done a search" they confess they didn‘t think of it. When people ignore a new commers questions (instead of giving them a harsh response for example) the person gets just as mad.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline CheersShag

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,360
  • My mom says I'm cool
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2004, 15:26:00 »
Ignoring it all together conveys a message of non-involvment by the moderator staff, perhaps encouraging more posts of that nature.

As for the searching for topics; this is important because threads that waste bandwidth are a huge problem on this site, as it stands now Mr. bobbit is running on an overloaded backup because of the sheer volume of posts. We try to conserve bandwidth as much as possible, by discouraging repeat posts.

I don‘t think I would agree that the person shooting gophers with a .22 neccessarily has more knowledge then reg or reserve personnell, someone in the combat arms can correct me if I‘m wrong on that point.

Rest assured the moderator staff discuss the bannings, dressing downs etc. and with the wide breadth of personalities we hope to address every situation case by case for the best outcome.

When it comes to dressing down, we do it for the express purpose of maintaining a professionalism that makes this board well known and popular, if it weren‘t for the dressing down the board would be overrun (even more so than it is already) with jtfnintendosniper‘s. The outcome of this is embarassing for the CF members on the board etc. etc.

Offline brin11

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -200
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 696
  • Gun Plumber
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2004, 16:06:00 »
Quote
You would agree however that kids and adults that have shot gophers with their .22s probably have more firearm and shooting knowledge than the majority of the Reserves if not the Reg. force.
 
I respectfully and strongly disagree with this statement.  The vast majority of weapons use is weapons safety and handling.  Not all units are constantly at the range but, rest assured, most are extremely professional and have a strong understanding of handling practices.  This is a far cry from the civvy gopher hunters I‘ve met.  I can‘t stress these safety practices enough and the CF beats it into your head day and night!
The enemy's gate is down.

Offline PikaChe

  • I'm not a communist. I just work for them
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 40,165
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,670
  • Pika la RevoluciĆ³n!
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2004, 16:21:00 »
I think the problem with most noobs that come here is that they think this is THEIR house. No, it‘s not.

It‘s house of Mr Bobbitt, who have kindly allowed people to come into HIS house which HE pays for, so that people can have good discussions pertaining to Canadian army and other relevant topics.

So, I think those noobs who come here and think they know all being loud and obnoxious and frankly, lacking in manners, need to learn to be quiet. Who goes to over someone‘s house and be so disrespectful to the owner, considering that you don‘t know the owner of the house?

The member of CF are here are more than happy to answer your questions. We like the fact that young people and other civillians take an interest in the military. Some of us go out of our way to answer questions, however dumb some of them may be.

We don‘t ask much. We ask that if you have a question, please do ask, but ONLY AFTER YOU HAVE RUN A SEARCH ON THIS FORUM OR ON GOOGLE or other search engines. We DO NOT want to answer anymore questions about how to be JTF2 or be sniper on your first year in the army and what not.

If you are NEW and want to learn about Canadian army, you‘ll get more knowledge here anywhere in the cyberspace, in my opinion. In fact, the current and former members of CF here continue to learn from each other on this board through exchange of information and opinions.

So, if you are NEW, I strongly suggest that all of you LISTEN before talking. As an old proverb goes, "Silence is the beginning of wisdom".
We do not care how many times you went hunting or go to a gun club. As far as we‘re concerned, if you have NEVER BEEN in the military, DON‘T ANSWER questions about characteristics of a C6 GPMG or its employment (for example), because frankly, you probably know ZIP about it, nor do we care for your UNINFORMED opinion.
But if there is a topic that your opinion may be valuable, such as politics or what is a good beer, please share.
But note that your standing in this forum is judged on QUALITY of your posts, not how much you run your mouth.

Everyone here is a guest of Mr.Bobbitt. Your freedom of speech ends at the doorsteps of Mr. Bobbitt‘s house. If he, or the moderators he has chosen don‘t like you talking stupid and being unmannerly, we‘ll boot you out the door.

I think everyone in this forum want a good, quality forum that everyone can enjoy. To keep that, please think of the points I made in this post.

Thanks for your attention.

Offline Farmboy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 626
  • Provider of quality gear
    • One Shot Tactical Supply
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2004, 17:35:00 »
Quote
So, if you are NEW, I strongly suggest that all of you LISTEN before talking
How long do we have to listen before we can ask or discuss things? After we have browsed for a couple months and read everything?

 
Quote
We do not care how many times you went hunting or go to a gun club. As far as we‘re concerned, if you have NEVER BEEN in the military, DON‘T ANSWER questions about characteristics of a C6 GPMG or its employment (for example), because frankly, you probably know ZIP about it, nor do we care for your UNINFORMED opinion.
I remember Ozzy saying once about Randy Roades that every town they stopped in, he would take a guitar lesson from someone. I found that very interesting that someone so great would still learn from everyone he dealt with.

 
Quote
I think everyone in this forum want a good, quality forum that everyone can enjoy. To keep that, please think of the points I made in this post.
This is very much agreed upon.

 I also like the fact that this discussion has stayed fairly pleasent so far.

 I still disagree about the firearms though  :p

Offline PikaChe

  • I'm not a communist. I just work for them
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 40,165
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,670
  • Pika la RevoluciĆ³n!
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2004, 17:48:00 »
Quote
How long do we have to listen before we can ask or discuss things? After we have browsed for a couple months and read everything?
I‘m commenting on too many people who talk before thinking.
Too many new guys lack maturity and judgement on when to talk and when to listen. IMO, they‘ll get a better idea when to talk after they‘ve been listening for a while.

 
Quote
I remember Ozzy saying once about Randy Roades that every town they stopped in, he would take a guitar lesson from someone. I found that very interesting that someone so great would still learn from everyone he dealt with.
Do you tell a pilot how to fly if you‘re not a pilot yourself? I, as an infanteer, would not tell an aviation tech how to fix a plane.

Likewise don‘t comment on things you don‘t know. Not only it‘s annoying when someone who has no clue provide inaccurate information or post stupid comments that can derail otherwise a good discussion.

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

  • Drawing the crabs from Downunder :) WTF is TWL?
  • Banned
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 28,880
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,232
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2004, 17:54:00 »
In my view (28 yrs service in two armies), there is no such thing as a stupid question?

Its how you go about asking it.

Regards,
Wes
"You've never lived until you've almost died; as for our freedom, for those of us who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know." - Anonymous

Offline Farmboy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 626
  • Provider of quality gear
    • One Shot Tactical Supply
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2004, 18:13:00 »
I should have clarified and put "guitar teacher" instead of "someone".

Offline CheersShag

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,360
  • My mom says I'm cool
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2004, 18:22:00 »
Farmboy has anything that‘s been said here helped you realise our (moderator staff & senior members) position when it comes to new members?

Offline yukon

  • Member
  • ****
  • 2,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 130
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2004, 19:02:00 »
I have been visiting this site for approx. 1 year, with no mil experience i have yet to find a reason to post, other than telling someone to search instead of blab away.

I come here to find info from those who know, and common sense and a bit of web etiquette tells me to search through all resources available to me before posting. This may be army.ca , dnd site etc etc, the list goes on and i find it frustrating as well to sift through useless and irrelevant posts with no substance or value to anyone on this forum.

there are entry reqs to get in to the forces, how about some for army.ca, it would at least ensure that those coming here have done their homework and have a right to be here, fail the reqs, fail to post.

just my 2 cents.
cheers.

Offline Slim

  • Just sliding along...
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 255
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,170
  • Daylight in the swamp
    • Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2004, 19:16:00 »
Quote
Quote
You would agree however that kids and adults that have shot gophers with their .22s probably have more firearm and shooting knowledge than the majority of the Reserves if not the Reg. force.
 [/QB]
Saying things like that is what gets people POed at you in the first place!

And that is most certainly not true. Get into the service, do some time, then tell me how a bunch of civvies can shoot better than all of the army "know-it-alls."

Just the opinion of an army Know-it-all! Take it for what its worth.
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline Michael O'Leary

  • The moral high ground cannot be dominated by fire alone, it must be occupied to be claimed as held.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 330,735
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,675
    • The Regimental Rogue
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2004, 19:32:00 »
There is a fundamental truth in much of what Farmboy and yukon are saying. We have a lot of experience on this board and many contributors including the moderators are here almost continuously. Many of the questions that are offered receive good answers, but sometimes, the tangents and the repetitive responses create a fair bit of static in some threads.

I must admit it‘s become a pet peeve of mine when one of the regulars has stepped in to shut down a needless thread by referring to past threads or advising the asker to search and then that valid response (which should have ended the discussion) is followed by multiple and unnecessary additions that reinforce but do not add to the admonishment, or a haphazard continuance of the thread by others who should also have followed the first responser‘s advice.

Often the first question was asked out of innocence and ignorance, but not to intentionally set any one off. Similarly many of those nicknames have been chosen by young and uninformed people who have no idea how you might react to it. The real crime often comes from the ‘second man in‘ delivering an unnecessary "hit" which then only creates a hostile atmosphere where one polite but firm response was enough.

Offline Farmboy

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 3,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 626
  • Provider of quality gear
    • One Shot Tactical Supply
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2004, 19:34:00 »
Che, yes I do know moderaters position since I am one on another site, and frequent many other forums. I have never seen a moderator belittle someone and then lock the thread.

 Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.

 Michael, quite right.

Offline Slim

  • Just sliding along...
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 255
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,170
  • Daylight in the swamp
    • Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2004, 20:13:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by Farmboy:
[qb] Che, yes I do know moderaters position since I am one on another site, and frequent many other forums. I have never seen a moderator belittle someone and then lock the thread.

 Slim, alot of the best shooters are civilian, and it is very easy for civilian to be better than the military. I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.

 Michael, quite right. [/qb]
Would you like me to bring all of the gold medals I have earned for pistol and rifle shooting? Or how about C7,C8,C9,C6,C5,C3,C2,C1,Sterling 9mm, KarG, M72 and the list goes on.

And be advised, bench resting your hand howitzer, then standing up to gab with a bunch of other geeks about how good you all are, is not quite the same as shooting under threat or in a military enviorment.

And I wouldn‘t go around calling yourself a sniper either...A real one might read your comments and take offence...or are you better than them too?!
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline muskrat89

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 25,952
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,479
    • Desert Rat
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2004, 20:14:00 »
Quote
I myself shoot over 80 rounds a month just throught my .300WM, then if I factor in my .308, .223, .22, shotguns and the ORA and local sniper matches I probably shoot more than 80% of the military. So yeah I still back up my statements, you can back up yours though by coming out to the Listowel Counter Sniper Match Apr. 24.
 
Then it‘s fairly safe to say that you are not, primarily, a gopher hunter. If you meant to say that you, based on your interest/pastime/hobby have more experience than many military people.... than that is what you should have said.
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Offline Carcharodon Carcharias

  • Drawing the crabs from Downunder :) WTF is TWL?
  • Banned
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 28,880
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,232
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2004, 20:30:00 »
I have been sitting back reading some of these posts, and I am beginnig to wonder. There is more to soldiering than shooting a rifle.

Having someone compare their civvy hobby to a professional soldier‘s weapons handling and shooting skills is fact, quite ouragous.

How can ya‘s go on and compare civ/mil with all this un-needed private boasting. 80rds a month of some civvy calibre plus other stuff is a joke, sorry but it is. Good for a hobby though, can‘t knock that , nor would I. I would encourage as much civvy shooting as one can take.

What this tells me is not much experience in the trade, the forces, and in general, a lack of maturity.

I am like others on here, I am a professional soldier, myself an armourer by trade (and former Infanteer), and I love my work.

I often shoot a mininum of 900rds of 5.56 x 45mm F1 ball a week, and then there is other weapons too. Infact I shoot so much I have to get my blood tested for lead every 12 months.

Civvy bench shooting or ‘civvy counter sniper matches‘ is a far cry form pan-climatic fire and movement, and hitting tgts consistantly (under a variety of pressures), and consisivly at Section, Platoon or Coy level, after running about for distances unknown when its 45C in the shade.

Its about teamwork and fighting thru the objective, and getting everyone thru unhurt. Its about trusting your mates who may be behind you, ‘off safe‘ with a loaded IW or MG.

Proper marksmanship principles, and weapons handling are learned, not born with, although some people will tend to have a natural skill which needs enhancing.

There are other factors from appropiate safety handling, general knowledge, command and control, and more serious things too which I will not bother to touch on.

I have owned guns since I was 9 yrs old. I have competed in international matches, and civvy IPSC etc over 25 years.

The military forces even have the GD generic police (and RCMP) beat when it comes to weapons handling. Often they qualifiy once a yr.

Shooting civvy is way different form military, and at anything, its just a hobby, where shooting for me, and others here on this site, it is our job and way of life. I can‘t even comprehend to compare a ‘civvy‘ hobby with the real world, sorry.

So, boys, pull your heads in and stop making fools of yourselves.

Time to lock up this thread.

OUT,

Wes
"You've never lived until you've almost died; as for our freedom, for those of us who have fought for it, life has a flavour the protected will never know." - Anonymous

Offline Slim

  • Just sliding along...
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 255
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,170
  • Daylight in the swamp
    • Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary
Re: Yikes ! (STAT)
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2004, 20:49:00 »
Thanks Wes

You said what I wanted to get across...The young one got my blood up.

Slim
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke