Author Topic: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )  (Read 341164 times)

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aesop081

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2005, 17:50:59 »
the spec pay isuue is null and void. You will not receive your spec pay unitll you are 5's qual in the spec trade itself... new ruleing as of june or july of 04.  

01 oct 04 is when the new policy came into effect.  I know this for a fact as i have the CANFORGEN right in front of me as i type.  I came into a spec trade prior to the new policy so i got to keep spec1 even though i am not qualified yet ( after they took it away and had to give it back). Check your facts before posting

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2005, 11:07:54 »
 I will have to correct myself here, anyone comming into the trade after the date as per the canforgen are no longer intitiled to spec pay untill such tiem as the are 5's qual in their spec trade. for avn that will be about 3 years. excuse me for having the dates alittle out of wack. The last Canforgen i seen on it stated june or july 04. If you been to CFSATE you will know they rarley show you any info as info is power. I do not have access to the din so finding all the info is hard to come by. Some ammendments have been made to the canforgen. I think people have the point on the spec trade, thanks for clarifying that for me. like i said last time i seen it had said June or July.
if we can put alll that BS aside.
If you could do me a favor and email me the Canforgen as i am having a problem with this point with the school I would appreciate it.
Did you have to redress the matter, or did a memo clear up the matter. Just curious and would like any help you can provide on this matter. Like i said above the school has mixed feelings about allowing us info. If you can help great.

aesop081

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2005, 14:55:51 »
I will have to correct myself here, anyone comming into the trade after the date as per the canforgen are no longer intitiled to spec pay untill such tiem as the are 5's qual in their spec trade. for avn that will be about 3 years. excuse me for having the dates alittle out of wack. The last Canforgen i seen on it stated june or july 04. If you been to CFSATE you will know they rarley show you any info as info is power. I do not have access to the din so finding all the info is hard to come by. Some ammendments have been made to the canforgen. I think people have the point on the spec trade, thanks for clarifying that for me. like i said last time i seen it had said June or July.
if we can put alll that BS aside.
If you could do me a favor and email me the Canforgen as i am having a problem with this point with the school I would appreciate it.
Did you have to redress the matter, or did a memo clear up the matter. Just curious and would like any help you can provide on this matter. Like i said above the school has mixed feelings about allowing us info. If you can help great.


All i di when i noticed that my pay had been cut and that they were clawing back all the spect pay they gave me since aygust is ***** to my course director, it then  wwent to the pay office, they got policy clarification from Ottawa.  Once this was done , we got our money back. We did not have to do a redress or memo to solve the situation.  I will scan the coanforgen and e-mail it to you ASAP.

Cheers

Offline Swin435

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2005, 02:00:57 »
FX;

Let me start off by saying the "Grass IS greener on the other side, kind of a Kentucky Blue Grass".   I say this after spending 11 1/2 years in the army before I made my jump.   I left CFSATE in Dec03.   I was posted to 435 Sqn Wpg.   I like the trade, I come home happy.

As for married guys, when the course was 6 months long they encouraged you to leave the family at home.   However they did post mine and many others.   Unless the regulations have changed ( I haven't had to look them up in a while) any course over six months "can" be considered a posting.   With the length of the new course, this shouldn't be an issue.  

With regards to inspections and marching.   Every other Thursday I would be at the shacks for our DEU inspection. Every day you meet at the shacks and march as a group to class.

To who ever was complaining about the books being wrong.   In some cases this is true, and you will find that most of your instructors will point this out.   So you know, the books that are wrong now are probably the same books that were wrong when I went through, and these were probably the same books that were wrong when previous courses went through before me.

All I can say FX is hopefully you enjoy it.   Study hard and you'll do fine.   Also when you get a chance start researching where you would like to go.   Think about what you want to work and see if there is a base that uses these aircraft where you want to live.   You may have to compromise but that is life.

Good Luck
« Last Edit: January 10, 2005, 02:03:44 by Swin435 »
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platinumfx

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2005, 17:11:25 »
Thanks for all of the information guys, I really appreciate it. Again thanks, I can't wait to see if I'm accepted. I don't see any reason as to why not, but ya never know. LOL Well I hope things goes well for everybody, and thanks again.


Cheers,

FX :salute: :cdn:

Offline Scoobs

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2005, 22:39:37 »
There used to be many more trades for airforce techs.  There are in fact only 4 MOC 500 trades now.  Three of them you can enter from right off the street, those being AVN, AVS, and ACS.  The 4th is NDT (non-destructive testing).  You have to be one of the previous three trades, but I can't remember which one(s) it is.  The reason the AVN course went from 6 months to 18 months was because the Airforce realized that an AVN tech could not be properly trained in only 6 months (lots of feedback from the units told them so).  It just wasn't possible to teach a tech what he needed to know in only 6 months what used to take the combined old trades much longer.  In fact, the 18 months is "still" shorter than the time it would take if someone would do all of the training for the other old trades. 
Every new course will have teething pains, but I do find that CFSATE tends to take forever to modify a course (same thing happened on my course).  You will find that even when you go to your unit after trg that there are alot of mistakes in the CFTOs, pubs, etc.  There will be constant messages coming out to correct the mistakes.  The difference in the Airforce is that you will be able to suggest and the changes will happen most of the time, but not all of the time.  I've done both sides of the coin, Army (only two years Reserve time) and Airforce.  You'll enjoy being an AVN tech, but will be frustrated at times.
With the Forced reduction in the mid-nineties, there is a large experience gap for techs with 10 to 15 years in.  It is a very good time to get into one of the 500 series trades as there will be a great need for higher ranks in 5 to 10 years.  Expect to see alot of promotions.

Later....
Variety is the spice of life...

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2005, 21:14:14 »
1.  What is the sign. of Scoobs?

2.  Did I read that right that if selected for this course you can take your wife with you?
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline Swin435

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2005, 01:13:54 »
CFL;

It's in the CFAO's/QR&O's or whatever the new admin orders are called now.  When in doubt go to your clerk and confirm.  That's how I found out, I bugged the hell out of the clerks at the Strat's and the base orderly room. 

Hope this helps.
They always give you a coin

Offline Scoobs

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2005, 22:13:10 »
1.   What is the sign. of Scoobs?

2.   Did I read that right that if selected for this course you can take your wife with you?

CFL,

1.  I'm not sure what you are asking me.  My sign or signature? 

2.  For this question, I agree, you should ask your OR.  Some course will let you take your wife.  I believe that this course is now consdiered a posting.  That would allow you to bring her, but some postings have limitations on F and E, i.e. wife.
Variety is the spice of life...

Magnumcharger

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2005, 16:30:10 »
So, you want to be an AVN. Ask me about it, I won't blow any sunshine up your ***.

Offline mbhabfan

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2005, 16:45:18 »
I have been looking into it.  Do you know how long the current course is in length?  How hard is it to switch to civvy street later?  Would my wife and daughter be able to come to Borden for the length of course?

Thanks, hope this isn't too many questions magnumcharger

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2005, 22:32:40 »
course is about 18 months in length, yes you can bring your wife but must ask before you do and dont take no for an answer. as for civie street you still have to do work hours and some schooling. it wont be that hard to do. good luck

Offline mbhabfan

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2005, 22:42:48 »
as it stands now I have no plans to switch to civvy life, I was just checking to see about it in case....  Does anyone know how competitive avn tech is?  In that 18 months of courses what would the time off or holidays be?  As far as terms of service would my three years of obligatory service start after BMQ or not until fully trained(if so how many years)?

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2005, 23:15:17 »
right now we got 2 weeks off at Christmas and about 1 week off every six months or so to burn off leave. the three years is total service. The are discussing about going to a five year engagement instead of 3 because of the lenght of time to get trained. That hasnt happended yet. as for being competitive not to sure, they say do, but then agian from some of the people who are here seems as if they choose them by throwing a dart at a board. Like any other trade in the CF if they need bodys they will get people in, if things are full then it will be slow to get in. make sure you empress on the recruitor that you want to go AVn tech and  are real excited to do that job. read up on it and show a genuine interset for the trade. that goes along way to getting in.

Offline InterestedParty

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2005, 20:21:02 »
Does anyone know how competitive avn tech is?  In that 18 months of courses what would the time off or holidays be? 

If you look under some of Kincanuk's posts under the recruiting forum I believe he had some information on this. IIRC most of the AVN techs had community college backgrounds in aviation as aeroengine mechanics. They had more openings for avionics technicians, cheers, mdh

Offline dan476

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2005, 10:27:26 »
CTD,

hey man, just wanted to know how things are going in borden? Hows course comming along?
A sign of professionalism is to be able to achieve so much with being given so little.
Never Pass a Fault - RCR

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2005, 23:24:40 »
i am off to bed now i will post tomorrow.

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2005, 23:59:17 »
Sorry about not responding, i have been taking care of room mate problems.  Well it is has been 13 months on course and we have about another 3 months left. the training aids still arnt here in full so all we have done is the same as the old course has for practicle training. The staff are all questionnig if this course has been benifical to us. originally we were suppose to have been having our log books written off here ( as much as possible) now that point seems mute as they are arguing as to if they are allowed to do that. So all and all we have been on a course that should have been max 12 months long, and that is even stretching it. it is taking 16. so the higher ups have taken what was a good idea and turned it into a farse. It only looks good on paper, as in real life it is a waste of 16 months of valuable training that could have been done at the unit.
If you are remustering think hard about it, as this course is so uncertain now that if you can hold off for a year or two and see what actually happens here at CFSATE, they need to actually get all their training aids and tools and incorperate them before it will be benificial to the students. The study manuals have gotten worse as in written poorly, i never would have thought that was possible. but it has happened. I hope i havent painted to bleak of a picture for you or any one else. but right now the teething pains are tremendous and untill such time as the chain of command opens their eyes to the real situation it will continue to happen and degrade the training of new students.

Think of this, would you want to fly in a helicopter that a person who is substandard worked on. And they passed him on because the numbers game is in full effect.

good luck

Offline InterestedParty

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2005, 00:09:29 »
CTD,

Just curious about the failure rate on the course. Have there been a lot students lost so far? I remember you saying that some of the recruits to AVN Tech were less than impressive. Doesn't sound like it's been a very good experience to date.

cheers, mdh

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2005, 00:27:54 »
we have had a couple of guys fail three or more tests but they have said that every one will pass. they have gone out of their way to keep these guys on course. One was AWOL for 7 hours, no charge, cause he volunteered for some extra work,the other one has not had a good track record either, and in the army would have been kicked out for some serious reasons that i wont discuss here, this is  two  examples of the crap going on. The school CO wants max grads and i am sure that MR 1 CAD  and his buddys are also looking for this, everytime we have had a General or Colonel visit who is directly responsible for this course they have all told us what they wanted to hear and closed their ears to the truth.  I only wish General Hillier would visit and ask the staff and student how the 54 million dollar course is going (the amount of money that is being invested to lead the AVN tech's into the next century). I think he would be shocked as would alot of politicians to see the waste and lack of over all thought put into it.
The qaulity of recruits is to be desired and the whole system needs to rethink if we want quantity or quality. right now we are getting quantity. Alot of this has to do with the actual higher echelon of the CF as a whole. to many people in charge who have forgotten what it is like to actually lead and have an efficient well trained memebers. This is unfortunate because their are alot of hard working peopel who get screwed because of it.This course and school is another example of what the old airforce was and needs to get away from.

Offline mbhabfan

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2005, 13:09:26 »
CTD, do you have any idea when the next course start date will be for AVN tech?

Offline CTD

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2005, 15:43:35 »
Their is suppoose to be the first French course starting in April, as for the next English course, they seem to be saying after spring break sometime. I will try to find out the exact dates on monday.

Offline InterestedParty

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2005, 15:54:47 »
Quote
we have had a couple of guys fail three or more tests but they have said that every one will pass. they have gone out of their way to keep these guys on course. One was AWOL for 7 hours, no charge, cause he volunteered for some extra work,the other one has not had a good track record either, and in the army would have been kicked out for some serious reasons that i wont discuss here, this is  two  examples of the crap going on
.

CTD,

Thanks for the insight, sounds kind of frightening though - I'm surprised that the air force would tolerate this considering how strict and demanding they are when it comes to pilot training - the ground crew element is just as critical,

hope it gets better,

cheers, mdh

Offline dan476

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2005, 15:41:06 »
CTD,

So the course is 16 months eh? Did they say they were going to extend that to 18 months? Also what happends when you're done course? Do you have to do some OJT with your new unit?  As far as I understand what they did is malgomated QL3 and QL5 and made a 16 month course , am I correct? As for the spec pay I know rules changed lately and you have to have you QL5 before you get that, so is there still a QL5 and also how long is it?

thanks for the info man and keep us posted on the course, and any changes
A sign of professionalism is to be able to achieve so much with being given so little.
Never Pass a Fault - RCR

belka

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Re: Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2005, 23:52:43 »
CTD,

So the course is 16 months eh? Did they say they were going to extend that to 18 months? Also what happends when you're done course? Do you have to do some OJT with your new unit?   As far as I understand what they did is malgomated QL3 and QL5 and made a 16 month course , am I correct? As for the spec pay I know rules changed lately and you have to have you QL5 before you get that, so is there still a QL5 and also how long is it?

thanks for the info man and keep us posted on the course, and any changes

I can answer a few of those questions.

As far as the course length, its up to 18 months, I started on March 2ndish, can't really remember, and I finish in September of 2006. After you are done your course, you get sent to a unit where you get on-type training on the specific aircraft you will be working on. Once you've completed that, you will be QL5 qualified, as far as I know. At first, you'll get qualified doing mostly servicing jobs on aircraft, cleaning, taxiing, and the sorts. Not really sure how long your QL5's are, but only after completion of the course, you'll get spec pay, which will only be an extra $300-400 per month.

As far as the course goes, its not really that demanding, well not yet it isn't. You usually get an idea of what the test questions are when you get your "homework" given to you. The instructors go through the material so much that you get the idea of the topic pretty quickly.


 8)