Author Topic: Issued Sleep System-Use and Temp Range  (Read 45930 times)

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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #25 on: November 02, 2008, 19:48:39 »
ok, buck naked.... how cold could the average person be comfortable with the bag I have?

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2008, 19:50:25 »
I wouldn't try it in the middle of winter.
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Offline Quag

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2008, 20:35:22 »
ok, buck naked.... how cold could the average person be comfortable with the bag I have?
-25C to -30C...but you won't be super comfortable...you'll know you ARE camping in the winter...

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2008, 20:46:38 »
I wouldn't rate it much past -10 C. 

Don't forget that there is also an insulation factor for the air space between the inner and outer bags, not just the bags.  Next question would be whether or not you are using them alone or with a bivie bag or in any sort of tentage/shelter.  What type of mattress are you using?  Everything will add up in calculating the insulation offered.
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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 20:47:21 »
If I am camping in -30 weather.... I wont need to be reminded, I will know. I just dont want hypthermia!!

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2008, 20:54:02 »
If I am camping in -30 weather.... I wont need to be reminded, I will know. I just dont want hypthermia!!


Like I said, I'd only rate an outer with liner up to -10 C.  If I had both the inner and outer, the liner, a bivie bag, the hood, and the old black Betty, and naked, I would be warm as toast at -45C and perhaps a little more.  With only one, inner or outer, I have been cold at +5C.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Offline navy stoker

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2008, 20:56:40 »
Like I said, I'd only rate an outer with liner up to -10 C.  If I had both the inner and outer, the liner, a bivie bag, the hood, and the old black Betty, and naked, I would be warm as toast at -45C and perhaps a little more.  With only one, inner or outer, I have been cold at +5C.

I have used it at about -5, possibly colder, and wearing hooded sweatshirt and sweat pants, I was toasty.

I am just trying to figure out how low I can go. Maybe I will see about spending a night in a deep freezer.

Offline Quag

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2008, 17:24:27 »
I was using the assumption that you were using inner and outer and liner...I wouldn't say you would be comfortable at -45C, they really aren't that great...  I would say you would be comfortable until -30C.  As well, as George states, using an air mattress is a must.  Without it, you could use a sleeping back thats rated to -100C (figuratively) but would be still be cold due to the frozen ground in direct contact with you.  When planning your sleep, think air spaces as much as you can.  The more the better (warmer).

Offline Strike

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2008, 17:31:23 »
Making sure it is cleaned properly can also help increase the loft and thus the temp rating.

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/gear/expert/042501.htm

As mentioned, a good mattress is a must.  You can get a pretty good air matress with down incorporated into it from various camp stores and it packs quite small too.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2008, 19:02:33 »
I was using the assumption that you were using inner and outer and liner...I wouldn't say you would be comfortable at -45C, they really aren't that great...  I would say you would be comfortable until -30C.  As well, as George states, using an air mattress is a must.  Without it, you could use a sleeping back thats rated to -100C (figuratively) but would be still be cold due to the frozen ground in direct contact with you.  When planning your sleep, think air spaces as much as you can.  The more the better (warmer).

If you can dig a decent snow hole, you only need a bag rated to -15 or so. Snow holds lots of air! Not always possible though.
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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2008, 15:27:31 »
Navy Stoker,

Based on your loft measurement you have a survival rating of 20 degrees f/ -7 degrees c.

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Brian Kroon
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Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2008, 15:50:02 »
So Brian, since you probably have more knowledge, how would be the best way to clean one of these old bags?
At MEC they say to wash with a very mild soap and the tumble dry in a big dryer; other places - and I think the tag on these bags say to dry clean only.

cheers,
Frank
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2008, 17:41:12 »
I slept in the sleeping bag complete (issued liner, inner, outer, and hood) on the green S.I. air mattress, inside a bivy bag, in the snow under a tree on winter ex at -30 or more (not sure what the coldest part of the night was).  The gear was all dry, and I was wearing only a gitch (clothing was hung outside on the tree branch, mukluks were not in the bivy bag, etc, to avoid as much moisture inside the bivy/sleeping bag as possible).  The kit was in relatively decent condition as well.

I was incredibly warm throughout the night.  We were along the edge of a copps of woods, with a bit of a breeze and not much overhead cover.  The only time I was cold was getting dresse/undressed and the first minute or so in the bag until it warmed up from my body heat.  That bivy bag is one of my favorite pieces of kit ever. 



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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2008, 17:35:01 »
PanaEng,

The problem with dry cleaning solvents is that they tend to leach out the natural oils in down plumule and the silicon off siliconized synthetics.

Having said that, I recommend Woolite/Zero, a modern front loading  machine on gentle cycle with luke warm water and tumble dry on warm NOT hot.

Kind Regards
Brian
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2008, 21:20:51 »
PanaEng,

The problem with dry cleaning solvents is that they tend to leach out the natural oils in down plumule and the silicon off siliconized synthetics.

Having said that, I recommend Woolite/Zero, a modern front loading  machine on gentle cycle with luke warm water and tumble dry on warm NOT hot.Kind Regards
Brian

I remember one of our guys deciding to do his own back in the '70s. Good German dryer in the shacks, high heat. Ended up with a football sized package, with a zipper that went around it about four times ;D
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Offline DropZone

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2008, 12:56:41 »
Recceguy,

I know what you mean, here in Edmonton one or our customers took his Drop Zone sleeping bag to a laundry mat to wash and dry. He washed it without issue and tossed it along with a Drop Zone Squeeze Me and a Drop Zone arctic parka into the dryer.

All were melted including the zippers! (YKK zips melt somewhere north of 450 f)

Anyhow legal action took place and it was discovered that the temp adjust knobs were ineffective and the dryers were set to high....to move customers out faster.
 :-\

Kind Regards
Brian Kroon
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Friends don't let friends use issue kit!

Offline jaawod

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2008, 21:15:12 »
I was on an ex last year using the issue inner, outer, and  bivy bag with a 3 year old canadian tire fleece liner.  We were in a mod tent without heat and on cots.  My bags had not been dry cleaned in 2 years and I was fairly warm at -45 (-55 with windchill   :o) wearing only my gitch.  The bags do get a lot warmer after being cleaned, and as always YMMV, but that's my coldest experience.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2008, 21:54:38 »
They are indeed great bags. My only beef with them is that they do not compact well and are heavy - I guess is the nylon material thickness used and the zipper.

Up in Baker Lake for exercise Svelte Nordique (sp? doesn't that conjure up images  ;)) in 88 I believe, we jumped in to an air temp of -44 with no wind. It warmed up overnight to -40 but the wind picked up to over 44kn so the wind-chill increased making it feel like -67 (-40 with about 80km/h wind http://www.msc.ec.gc.ca/education/windchill/WindChill_Calculator_e.cfm).
We lost a few people to cold injuries - and a dozer, LAPES in fine but the fuel and hydraulics froze) but we managed to stay in the tents and igloos/snow caves for a few days until it got worse.
The tents were flapping something furious and, even with the snow wall, some guy lines and tents ripped, so the air inside did not have a chance to warm up much. Most of us were cold but we survived fine in those bags.
We used the horse-hair and honeycomb packing for the dozer, grader and other equipment to line the inside walls of the arctic tents plus we used the reflective blankets as well.

cheers,
Frank
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2008, 00:13:42 »
Yep, the issued bag had its day, but it might be time to issue two separate bags: one for temperate and one for ECW conditions. Below are a few examples of ECW type bags available on the open market. I've got the MEC bag and have used it at 30 below and it was nice and toasty - and weighs less than 5 lbs/ 2 kg


MEC Thor:
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp;jsessionid=gRHJJfyGxZyxK5b2JVKQb0J9y6JW1z7Jr3yB2vgh2N9ynRLmmm1s!455273123?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302701483&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442618380&bmUID=1226811462957


Mountain Hardware:
http://mountainhardwear.com/Product.aspx?top=1429&prod=1125&cat=1479&viewAll=False

North Face:
http://www.thenorthface.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=11018&storeId=207&catalogId=10201&langId=-1&from=subCat&parent_category_rn=11749&variationId=80X













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Offline noneck

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2008, 12:37:44 »
D&B I agree 100%. I use the MEC Hybrid, it's relatively inexpensive and is rated down to -20. When it gets really cold I just add an inner bag, which is small enought to use as a patrol bag by itself in the summer. The hybrid comes in some great rave colours however no one see's it when it's packed in my biv bag. It's at least half the packed size and weight of the issue bag.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442280153&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302865703&bmUID=1226856312224

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2008, 23:50:54 »
D&B I agree 100%. I use the MEC Hybrid, it's relatively inexpensive and is rated down to -20. When it gets really cold I just add an inner bag, which is small enought to use as a patrol bag by itself in the summer. The hybrid comes in some great rave colours however no one see's it when it's packed in my biv bag. It's at least half the packed size and weight of the issue bag.

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442280153&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302865703&bmUID=1226856312224

And I bet it's about 1/2 the bulk of our 2 bag system...
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2009, 19:06:43 »
And I bet it's about 1/2 the bulk of our 2 bag system...

Say's it is only rated to -20. I'll keep my issued bag, even though it has it's own problems:

I used to simply slip into it, then into my inner bag, then my outer bag, but found I could never fully slip into the outer bag for some strange reason. So I tied all the bags together with the attached straps. Now the liner only comes up to my chest, the inner bag is just short of my shoulders, and the outer bag goes just over my head. I'm 5'10." So did I simply not assemble them right, or are there different sizes to the bags and frig up when issung me my bag, or is this normal?

Really, those problems only cause mild discomfort for me, and a bit of a pain in the *** when getting in/out of the thing and when it comes to stuffing socks/underwear at the foot of the bag to keep those warm for morning. Even without the hood (thanks to the overly large outer bag) I've slept comfortably in -40 not including the windchill, though I did have a lean-too constructed over my head, and spruce/pine bows plus the air matress below me.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2009, 17:38:31 »
Quote
I used to simply slip into it, then into my inner bag, then my outer bag, but found I could never fully slip into the outer bag for some strange reason. So I tied all the bags together with the attached straps. Now the liner only comes up to my chest, the inner bag is just short of my shoulders, and the outer bag goes just over my head. I'm 5'10." So did I simply not assemble them right, or are there different sizes to the bags and frig up when issung me my bag, or is this normal?

I'm 5'10" also and never had those problems - I also tie the bags together.
Check that they are what the tags say they are (inner/outer). I think there is a short and a long version so check they are the same size.

cheers,
Frank
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline Canadian Mind

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2009, 17:56:04 »
Just checked:
Quote
NSN 8465-21-842-6078
Sleeping Bag, Outer, Cold Weather

Quote
NSN 8465-21-842-6079
Sleeping Bag, Inner, Cold Weather

Both also came from the same production run in November 2006, unless I'm reading the numbers wrong. The only possible indication of size I found was an orange tag with some faded numbers on it stitched onto the inner bag. Couldn't find one on the outer bag.

Offline geo

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Re: Sleeping bag rating
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2009, 19:56:05 »
Colour blobs (red/orange & green) were a way to visually ID inners from outers
Chimo!