Author Topic: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's  (Read 93613 times)

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Offline LoboCanada

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #150 on: August 27, 2019, 11:21:26 »
Why end the production line if there's a demand for more internationally? Is the line that expensive to run that it needs massive orders to stay profitable enough?

Is the smaller airlift competition that strong that the future of the aircraft isn't clear? Not like Boeing has another version on the way.

I dont understand the closing of a line of aircraft that are so strategically vital for so many wealthy countries.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #151 on: August 27, 2019, 11:47:03 »
Boeing now has an interest in the Embraer KC-390 which looks set to compete against C-130J, A400M:

Quote
Embraer to deliver first KC-390 to Brazilian Air Force on September 4
Brazil will receive 28 units of the multipurpose freighter jet by 2024 that will replace the C-130 Hercules turboprop
...
The Air Force is expected to receive its 28 transport aircraft by 2024. By then, the aircraft is expected to have new customers as a result of the partnership between Embraer and Boeing, which aims to boost its sales.

[Lovely plane]

https://www.airway1.com/embraer-to-deliver-first-kc-390-to-brazilian-air-force-on-september-4/

Earlier:

Quote
Boeing relationship key to KC-390 costs, marketing

Embraer’s defence joint venture with Boeing will use the American company’s leverage over suppliers to cut parts and components costs on the KC-390 tactical transport.

The Brazilian company said at an investor conference on 16 January that it will also lean on Boeing’s international sales and marketing network, as well as the USA’s geopolitical influence, to expand the transport’s sales.

“The markets where the US has a huge geopolitical influence, we compete with Lockheed Martin in those markets,” said Nelson Salgado, chief financial officer of Embraer. “Now with the partnership with Boeing, we are opening up all of those markets, the US and the markets where the US has significant geopolitical influence. With Boeing leverage on the supply chain we will have big possibilities of reducing costs on the [KC-390] and make it a product [that is] more competitive as well.”

The KC-390 is powered by two International Aero Engines V2500 turbofans and can carry 80 passengers or 64 paratroopers. The aircraft is designed to perform missions such as cargo and troop transport, troop and cargo air delivery, aerial refueling, search and rescue and forest fire fighting [rather Amazon-relevant, what?]...
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-relationship-key-to-kc-390-costs-marketing-455077/

Plus now:

Quote
Portugal and Embraer celebrate deal for five KC-390
https://www.wingsmagazine.com/portugal-contract-for-five-kc-390/

Mark
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Offline MrWhyt

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #152 on: August 28, 2019, 00:35:20 »
Why end the production line if there's a demand for more internationally? Is the line that expensive to run that it needs massive orders to stay profitable enough?

Is the smaller airlift competition that strong that the future of the aircraft isn't clear? Not like Boeing has another version on the way.

I dont understand the closing of a line of aircraft that are so strategically vital for so many wealthy countries.

cause demand isn't the same as contracts, countries can spend years saying they want something before they actually sign a contract for the items.. Boeing made all they had on order plus a handful extra. It's too expensive to keep a line sitting around not producing anything.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #153 on: August 28, 2019, 08:13:20 »
The US needs more C17's to push their squadron levels to 386. No talks with Boeing yet on a new production line. The C5's are bit old too so maybe by Antonov ? Its a Ukrainian company.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/airlift-tanker-annual/2018/10/26/could-the-air-force-restart-the-c-17-production-line/


Online Spencer100

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2019, 20:14:17 »
Boeing and Embraer signed their deal last week.

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/release/207523/boeing-embraer%E2%80%93defense-jv-to-market-renamed-c_390-transport.html

So I would bet on a stretch C390 built in the US before a reopened C17


Offline LoboCanada

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #155 on: November 21, 2019, 09:58:21 »
Is there really anything available in the market other than the C390? Who else in the West is designing a C-17 follow on now that the line is shut down?

Online Spencer100

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #156 on: November 21, 2019, 10:47:29 »
They are very thin,  the Lockheed C-130, the BE C-390, the Airbus A400, and the Kawasaki C-2 are in production.

There are others like the AN-70, the Xian Y-20, and IL-76 but those are not really available.

Offline Colin P

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #157 on: November 21, 2019, 11:03:39 »
The C-17 offers substantially more cargo space, with 3" more height, 7' wore width and 20' more length than the C-390.

Online Spencer100

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #158 on: November 21, 2019, 11:34:02 »
But the C-17 is out of production.  And will most likely never to be restarted.  The plant is gone the tooling is gone the employees are gone. It will be interested with what the USAF does in the future.  I can not see them buying the A400 in any large amount.  The 747 has only 18 orders left and the supply chain is starting shutdown.

I would bet they are looking at a new design blended wing type but can they afford it?

My guess is that they will just fly the wings off the C-5 C-17 and keep rebuilding them.

But that still leaves the original question of what does the RCAF do?   

Offline Colin P

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #159 on: November 21, 2019, 11:57:49 »
Freaking criminal to shut down that plant.

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #160 on: November 21, 2019, 12:22:39 »


But that still leaves the original question of what does the RCAF do?

The same as they have always done, make do with what they have.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #161 on: November 21, 2019, 16:31:24 »
Last C17 orders being completed. For quite awhile the USAF has sought to end the program but it is an aircraft in demand unless a new aircraft is designed. Ukraine builds big transports maybe we could do a deal to replace the C5. 

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/last-of-the-globemasters-the-usafs-final-orders-05283/

Offline Ditch

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #162 on: November 21, 2019, 21:00:13 »
C-390 project seems off the rails.   Prospective orders in play since 2010 and only 4 prototypes made to date.  Not a good option until throughput increased, -390 was in initial bid for FWSAR but never made it to bid.
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Offline quadrapiper

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #163 on: November 24, 2019, 19:38:59 »
...the tooling is gone...
Have heard that about a few aircraft production lines; F-22 comes to mind. Is whatever actual kit is in question not amenable to mothballing, or is there some other practical factor at work? Or is it just manufacturers not wanting to hang onto equipment that isn't making them money?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #164 on: November 24, 2019, 20:56:51 »
Have heard that about a few aircraft production lines; F-22 comes to mind. Is whatever actual kit is in question not amenable to mothballing, or is there some other practical factor at work? Or is it just manufacturers not wanting to hang onto equipment that isn't making them money?

I believe that it’s all about supply and demand.

Since the major effort in Central Asia ended a few years ago (demand), there’s no need for more big logistics airframes (supply).
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Offline quadrapiper

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #165 on: November 27, 2019, 23:08:14 »
I believe that it’s all about supply and demand.

Since the major effort in Central Asia ended a few years ago (demand), there’s no need for more big logistics airframes (supply).
Makes sense as far as the production line closing down; was wondering if there was a technical reason for not stowing unique elements of the production line (molds? frames? jigs?) against future need.

Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #166 on: November 28, 2019, 05:58:58 »
I believe that it’s all about supply and demand.

Since the major effort in Central Asia ended a few years ago (demand), there’s no need for more big logistics airframes (supply).

We are in many way s busier now than then...because we are spread out all over the world.  We need more now than then.
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Offline CBH99

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #167 on: November 28, 2019, 15:26:25 »
To add to that, any operation we undertake will be strategic in nature, just due to our geography.  I agree with PPCLIGuy, the strategic fleet is more in demand now than it was during Afghanistan, as we are now providing aircraft all over the world instead of focusing our efforts on one region/hub. 
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #168 on: November 29, 2019, 01:45:22 »
We are in many way s busier now than then...because we are spread out all over the world.  We need more now than then.

Given that we cant get more C-17's should we invest in more Hercs?
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #169 on: November 29, 2019, 07:45:24 »
Replace the Polaris fleet first.
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Offline kev994

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RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #170 on: November 29, 2019, 08:21:29 »
Given that we cant get more C-17's should we invest in more Hercs?
Rumour is we have more J-model hercs than crews to fly them.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 08:24:50 by kev994 »

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: RUMINT of Canada wanting more C-17's
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2019, 11:34:12 »
Replace (and expand) the Polaris fleet first (with a larger multipurpose civil aircraft).

FTFY

The C17 and the Herc are necessary for "the end of days scenarios" where runways aren't available. They should be husbanded for those occasions.

For the routine business of flying from Trenton, Winnipeg or Edmonton to Cologne or Dubai, where the skies are open enough that military flights are competing with civil flights for landing spots, then cheaper civil aircraft seem like a better bet. 

Kind of like hiring a civilian ship to supply the Navy.
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