Author Topic: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?  (Read 9735 times)

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Offline ab136

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Questions I have wanted to ask for a while now.
I'm in the recruiting process; not a member yet.  When someone does BMQ the idea is not to standout...blend in with everyone else. When you get posted, that idea seem to go out the window.  I see from different threads that members resole their boots with special treads, accessorize(sp) their kits with different pack and straps, and holder,and.........etc. I work in construction now and I am always looking for something; a tool, to make my job easier.  Is it the same in the CF?  Can you carry basically anything you think will make you job easier?  I have read that officers are the only ones permitted to carry side arms(pistols). True/False?  I have also read that some members accessorize(sp) their C7s'.  Do you have your own personal C7 or do you just get one randomly issued when needed?  Wow quite a few questions!!!
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Offline Da_man

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2004, 10:46:33 »
talking about accessorizing, would a 3 point tactical sling be acceptable at most units?  The regular sling is awful.
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Offline dglad

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2004, 10:56:45 »
This will vary from unit to unit.  As I've said on here before, as a CO I had a policy designed to make soldiers generally look "similar" (NOT identical!), as I personally believe a degree of standardization in the types and locations of kit carried is operationally desirable.  Not everyone agrees, however, and I'm sure there are some units where a much greater degree of variety is allowed (correspondingly, there may be some that require an absolute degree of standardization).  There may also be circumstances where more variety is allowed; in the infantry, for instance, soldiers on recce or fighting patrols generally have wider arcs regarding personal kit (subject to the patrol commander's intent, of course) than they might while "in the line".

Before investing in a lot of spiffy kit, I'd make sure that you understand what you will and will not be allowed to use in the field in your particular situation.  You should also expect that, especially on earlier career courses, there probably will be very specific standards in place.  So, as you point out, if you're taking BMQ or SQ, you probably won't be allowed much latitude as to what you wear/carry and how/where you wear/carry it.  It's not so much about blending in as it is about instilling an attention to detail and overall discipline, but the effect is the same.
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Offline ab136

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2004, 11:04:05 »
Thanks dgald.
So it's may not be a "free for all" once your posted.  I was just curious because there seems to be quite a bit of buy/sell/trade going on.
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aesop081

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2004, 11:11:22 »
Thanks dgald.
So it's may not be a "free for all" once your posted.   I was just curious because there seems to be quite a bit of buy/sell/trade going on.

I used to work with alot of 642's and i can honestly tell you that you wont have to worry about customizing your kit for the field too much !

Offline ab136

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2004, 11:50:34 »
Wow there really are 642's LOL
I've been on this site for well over a year and the only mention of 642's are the ones I have posted.
Nice to know there are a few around.
Thanks aesop081 your a breathe of hope
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Offline ab136

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2004, 11:56:50 »
aesop081 could you put me in contact with a 642.  will not perster or both just like to converse about the trade.
any help will be appreciated.
i also understand if you don't want to get involved
thanks.
I just became a "member" with this post.  ;D
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aesop081

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2004, 13:24:59 »
aesop081 could you put me in contact with a 642.   will not perster or both just like to converse about the trade.
any help will be appreciated.
i also understand if you don't want to get involved
thanks.
I just became a "member" with this post.   ;D

I'll see what i can do...i'm out of the engineer world but i migh be able to help...after the hollidays that is !

Offline Tommy

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2005, 06:47:16 »
talking about accessorizing, would a 3 point tactical sling be acceptable at most units?   The regular sling is awful.


I Have a SWAT sling from Seals Action Gear. and so far its been a great piece of kit. definatly worth the 12 or 15 bucks i spent on it ( i cant remember exact cost.)

if you want to see how it works check the website.

Personally most people usually just go, "hey cool sling" or ask where i got it.. rarely will a Snr NCO make a big deal out of something small that increases a soldiers ability to do his job.

now.. just to clarify... as stated earlier. basic training is not the place to have gucci kit. it will either be stolen, or you'll get jacked up for having it.. if youre done youre basic, then go for it. if youre unsure ask a co-worker, Cpl or MCpl whos got some time in, what they think would be allowed and what wouldnt..
apart from that just use your discretion..

 Cheers
   Josh
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Offline my72jeep

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2005, 10:06:56 »
I though the three point sling was issue they call it the operational sling nsn 1005-21-911-7446
got one a few years ago on an ex.
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aesop081

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2005, 10:09:54 »
I though the three point sling was issue they call it the operational sling nsn 1005-21-911-7446
got one a few years ago on an ex.

The one you are talking about is a POS...........it always breaks where the stings for the from hinge meet the actual sling, the "pull the dot" thing in the from jams and can often be a pain to undo/redo.........Alot of the comercial slings that are available ( as those guys are describing i think) are not that expensive and very effective.

Offline Tommy

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2005, 20:10:29 »
The one you are talking about is a POS...........it always breaks where the stings for the from hinge meet the actual sling, the "pull the dot" thing in the from jams and can often be a pain to undo/redo.........Alot of the comercial slings that are available ( as those guys are describing i think) are not that expensive and very effective.

Agreed. Like i said. the one I bought was probabbly one of the best pieces of kit ive ever purchased. its very much like the Sling the Brits use on the L85 (SA80) it enables the C7 to be worn across the chest, Biathalon style, or when the buckle is depressed it moves to the ready position, or can hang down beside your leg. and as a member of either 21 or 22 svc found out on a botched Bde Ex its very difficult to disarm an indiviual who is wearing it.

best line from that ex.

In route sentry: Call the QRF, tell them we have prisoners

Us: We ARE the QRF............

 :-[
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2005, 21:14:14 »
I competed at Bisley this summer in the CENTSAM competition using a SA80A2. The sling that came with the weapon must be used during their competitions as it is a component of their "Integrated Weapons System". I really found that it was in the way during the majority of the matches. Mind you the rear swivel on the SA80A2 is located on the side of the butt and thus the strapping from the sling can get in the way when adopting a firing position in my experience.

I've not had the chance to use this sling with the C7A1 so I would not be able to comment about the compatibility of that sling on the C7A1. I can see that the 3 point sling would have an advantage while patrolling, but the user must be 100% sure where the release is located or else they would be in a world of hurt.

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Offline excoelis

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2005, 21:37:47 »
I have read that officers are the only ones permitted to carry side arms(pistols). True/False?  

False.   There are many cases where NCMs - ie. support wpns operators - carry them.   Also they may be carried to task tailor the eqpt for certain missions or operations.   Generally, it's a side-arm or secondary weapon.   Very rarely, if ever, (nowdays) a primary weapon.

WRT issue kit:   To further amplify what dglad pointed out - standardisation also has real-time implications with respect to inter-operability and the realities of logistical support and the (re-)supply system during deployment on sustained operations.   If it's issue, and you are proficient in it's use, then when it breaks - and it will eventually - you can get it replaced through the system in what should be a reasonable time.   ie. if it's not on hand then an IOR, or immediate operational requirement, will be promulgated and it will become a priority.  

Given that I probably own more 'personal' kit than issue, I would still advise you to learn how to be proficient with the issue stuff first.   You can then adjust to whatever rules, regs, and common sense dictate once you get the chance.
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Offline Tommy

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2005, 17:16:52 »
I competed at Bisley this summer in the CENTSAM competition using a SA80A2. The sling that came with the weapon must be used during their competitions as it is a component of their "Integrated Weapons System". I really found that it was in the way during the majority of the matches. Mind you the rear swivel on the SA80A2 is located on the side of the butt and thus the strapping from the sling can get in the way when adopting a firing position in my experience.

I've not had the chance to use this sling with the C7A1 so I would not be able to comment about the compatibility of that sling on the C7A1. I can see that the 3 point sling would have an advantage while patrolling, but the user must be 100% sure where the release is located or else they would be in a world of hurt.



I still have an L85A1 sling from when my unit went over to england on an exchange with 158 (Royal Anglian) Transport Regiment RLC(V)

To be honest ive never tried adapting it to the C7. I dont think it would work given the vastly different dimentions of the two weapon systems.

also for those leftys out there. the L85 cannot be fired from the left shoulder... I found that out the hard way.. spent casing down the shirt are really hot!!
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2005, 17:20:41 »
also for those leftys out there. the L85 cannot be fired from the left shoulder... I found that out the hard way.. spent casing down the shirt are really hot!!

I'm surprised that they even let you attempt that. The cocking handle of the SA80's cycles after every discharge. You are really lucky that you didn't get a smack on the check with the cocking handle.

I would believe that you would need a longer sling in order to accommodate the use of that type of sling on a C7.
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Offline Tommy

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2005, 19:34:56 »
I'm surprised that they even let you attempt that. The cocking handle of the SA80's cycles after every discharge. You are really lucky that you didn't get a smack on the check with the cocking handle.

I would believe that you would need a longer sling in order to accommodate the use of that type of sling on a C7.

Heh Heh Heh.... Well they were blanks, and i was fireing from somewhere between the shoulder and the hip. we had been bumped on the road, and were going through our ambush drills, I jump out of a Bedford 4 ton and pop about 4 rounds in the direction of the enemy, before i remember that "oh yeah.. its a right handed weapon..."  :-[    I am lucky i didnt get whacked in the jaw by the cocking handle... lucky me  i guess...

and yes... the sling i ordered was specifically designed for the M16/C7. I also got the left handed version... and like i said. works great!
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2005, 19:40:24 »
I know when we compete with the C7A1 we don't have to use the sling if you do not want to.

But at CENTSAM, you have to have the sling on your weapon and shoot with the sling around your body.

Makes for an interesting shoot if you are not used to it!!
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Offline Tommy

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2005, 20:25:50 »
Id just be happy if my unit shot more then twice a year.... :(
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2005, 20:29:29 »
I hear that from a lot of reservist.

I have a friend who is a gate guard in the British Army who must go out at least once every 31 days to re-qualify on all his weapons. Personally I think that every member of the CF who aren't part of a field unit should get out on the range at least twice a year.
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Offline JayJay

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2005, 20:42:24 »
 Twice a year eh?  Lucky you....my unit goes once a year....and we only do PWT 1, one year we did PWT 1 AND 2, lucky us eh? pfft.  Don't get me wrong, I love the reserves....but I love firing weapons, and wish we could go more often.
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2005, 20:56:13 »
I'm on the local Combat Shooting Team, therfore I get out twice a week from April - Oct.

Maybe you should look into getting on your unit's shooting team?
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Offline JayJay

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2005, 21:07:11 »
 yeah ummm....shooting team what?  we don't have one of those. 
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2005, 21:55:03 »
Twice a year eh?   Lucky you....my unit goes once a year....and we only do PWT 1, one year we did PWT 1 AND 2, lucky us eh? pfft.   Don't get me wrong, I love the reserves....but I love firing weapons, and wish we could go more often.

Some of us get lucky though... last year I managed to do 4 C7 shoots and 3 C9 shoots, including PWT1/2/3 with the C7 (Qualified at marksman level) as well as low light shooting, and both day and night shoots with the C9. Now I'm trying to figure out some way to either get myself on a jungle lane, or get behind a fifty-cal (Admitedly the fifty is mostly a fantasy.)

Offline Laps

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Re: Is there a limit to the kind and amount to "kit" a member can have?
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2005, 23:06:58 »
To go back to the original question...  When it comes down to getting "extra" kits, I think that there is a few rules of thumbs:

- look around and ask the other "guys"
- uniform is uniform (ie, don't try to change what you are supposed to wear), on the "outside" anyway.  There are many regulations on this...
- the whole point is to make your life easier, not enter a spitting contest
- during your career, you will spend an arm and a leg in guccy kits that you will only use once or twice (or ultimately, replace by an even "gucchyer" piece of kit)
- that stuff will travel a lot...  and despite the "one-man-one-kit" policy, your stuff will still be handled by many people; most of them not paying to much care at not breaking it... (loadsmashers being some of them...  Flight Engineers coming close seconds)
- when issued kit breaks, you get it replaced, when your guccy kit breaks...
- You will already have a whole lot of issued kit that you won't know where to store
- Finally, no guccy kit until you are at your unit... 

My 2 cents worth.