Author Topic: A country worth fighting for? -A political Scenerio  (Read 21905 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2003, 11:18:00 »
Come on vote for day, you know you wanna  :)

I actually don‘t know much at all about him but from what i did see i liked. He seemed down to earth. I like europe. Their taxes are included in the price. It makes counting money so much easier  :)  
(What was flat taxes and the dinosaur theory?)

Native subject is pretty tricky i guess. I would say that there is no problem if they want to keep their traditions and their herritage if they are canadian. They are after all a major part of canadian history regardless of what happened.  If they don‘t want to be considered canadian natives or american natives at all and be a seperate entity then i think they should also not expect or recieve money/bennifits from the ‘canadian‘ government.

I think by governments (US and Can) feeling sorry for them/ trying to undo the past we‘ve actually did a lot of harm. I think theres a big difference between remembering/honouring and actually practicing traditions that are 200 +/- years old.
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Offline SpinDoc

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2003, 12:01:00 »
If I didn‘t know better, I think you like Day because he‘s photogenic and doesn‘t speak with a funny voice =) I mean, look at Joe Clark... he‘s puffy!

Day was saying (on national TV) that he had proof that the world was 6,000 years old and that men coexisted with dinosaurs.  Flat tax is like 15% (or some %) across the board for everyone rich or poor... sure sounds fair doesn‘t it?  Of course it does!  Too good to be true... if we thought Mulroney ran up a big deficit, wait till we try the flat tax...

I think with the natives it was more of a matter of "we need to make them better people, like us... we‘ll give them an education and teach them Christian values so they‘ll be better (and not go to heck)".  A lot of cultures in the world practice ancestor-worship in addition to/instead of god(s).

das

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2003, 13:35:00 »
holy cow you guys went all out eh well i agree with all of you. you all rise very good points of views but your skiping the main point and that is what country would you rather live in a US run one where every one fights and dies or a Canadian one where you have the right to be black yellow brown blue red pink what ever..

all I know is I was born a Canadian and I‘ll give my life to die as one and no one will take that right from me for i feel all Canadians care for all other canadians we are a proud people who charish are freedoms and to show it we let others from all over the world come here and live in peace and I for one would rather see there come a time when every one joins with Canada in a peaceful planet call me nuts rasist or what ever I don‘t care I‘m canadian and thats all that matters to me and I for one will die before Canada is ever take I would shed my blood to defend Canada even if I‘m a civ. I would be out on the front fighting to the end as would many Canadians I‘m sure

Offline NormR

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2003, 14:11:00 »
Interesting comments and points gentlemen/ladies?
Question is... What is Canada to you... a place to live in, raise kids in, make money in, have opinions even if we can not always speak them aloud.....
On racisicm: There are various form of derogatory comments( names:which describe the nationality not the person)that can be made about any one who is canadian which will automatically provide a stereotypical description
But.........
When it comes down to it....
Really really comes down to it...
What would you do....

I for one will consider any nation who by any means decides that they need to control or expand there borders in my country worth killing,
He** yes I will fight.

rebel bill

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2003, 17:54:00 »
O.k guys, im american and we are not bad people! We respect other countrys. O.k see our point of view. Lets say this was your country in a very high terror alert, would you want terrorists coming in your country and killing 5,000 civlians? Can‘t you take a mile of land? So if you can see my point, please don‘t hate my country! By the way you guys are all saying america is racist and hates other cultures, well you guys are all puting down america, so consider your self all racists then. America, and Canada will always be friends!

Albertan

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2003, 01:31:00 »
Cool scenario Micheal. Do you mind if I copy that for use on my friends?

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2003, 01:44:00 »
I‘d be interested in hearing what they have to say about it.
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Offline CFN. Orange

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2003, 03:36:00 »
WOW...This post is an excellent brain teaser..Michael i have no idea how you came up with it but major kudos on the idea...Im deffinatley going to pass this on to a couple people for their take on it.


I am a dual citizen born in Canada and adopted into a family where my father (now) is American. Canada is my home and has always been. I feel strong ties to Canada and to the US . Almost 60 %of my family lives there.

But given the scenario, as a Canadian, I would fight. Fight to the death if i have to. We have the right to safety and security of our own land and the backing and support of others. In this scenario(NOT IN REAL LIFE) the American war hungry, bunch of pigs have raided another country because of a select few individuals. It‘s beyond conception to allow them to trample on our land and take over our government. These terrorists attacking the US from Canada will be found but, the US invasion issue is  based around the Americans trying to occupy new land in hopes of irradicating a few, while they in turn lose many of their civilians and soldiers.

The terrorist‘s will attack with great strength from within America. Hundreds and Thousands of innocent men women and children will die at the hands of the select few. As the Americans attempt to weed out the terrorists from Canada they will miss tons of Terrorists Soldiers crossing from Canada into the US (which will cost they dearly).

Morally the Americans are so far off the ball its insane, the Canadian Gov‘t. along with CESUS, would have discovered many of these terrorist fractions within Canada and turned over the information that is known about the devious criminals.

After the original invasion, I believe that the Canadian Gov‘t. will be forced not to disperse and give up total control to the Americans, but rather give up all information regarding the terrorists, and allow American military along with American FBI/CIA agents into Canada. This way the US can hold their own investigation and "invasion" into the terrorist orginization.

At first Canadian Forces will fight. the CF will fight with more heart and more balls then the Americans, taking some of the US forces by storm and surprise. But soon enough in sheer numbers the Americans will make a large storm up across the Canadian border backing the forces up to the point where they can begin investigation while collection whats left of the CF that do infact surrender.

(BELIEVE ME SURRENDER WOULD NOT BE AN OPTION AND IF THE CANADIAN FORCE COULD MATCH UP IN NUMBERS WE WOULD TAKE EM... but in the end i believe the sheer size of the american force will push the CF to the breaking point.)

Tons of lives lost between brothers. It would be almost like a civil war with many civilians stepping in to stop the violence between the two giant forces.

But like the song...

"Oh Canada,
I stand on guard for thee..."  :cdn:
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Offline Spr.Earl

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2003, 05:20:00 »
Very interesting response‘s from all.

 BUT!! If in uniform you are obligated to defend our country even if invaded by the U.S., in Mike‘s scenario.As you have sworn to defend Canada
when you swore allegince and signed the dotted line.

 I for one would fight in or out of uniform and give them a good run for their money even if I died,at least I could say I tried.
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Albertan

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2003, 13:21:00 »
Here are the responces from the folks at Canadaka.net

 http://www.canadaka.net/cka/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=9027#9027

the patriot

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2003, 20:17:00 »
Michael,

Very interesting and thought provoking scenario indeed.  I for one would never fathom seeing the stars and stripes hoisted over the Peace Tower.  This country is worth protecting and dying for.

Gunnar,

One must be very careful of thoughts that may be perceived as being xenophobic.  What is Canadian culture?  I would hope that one‘s concept of "Canadian Culture" is not that of a bunch of White Anglo-Saxon Protestants downing a couple of beers at the mess and toasting to the Queen.  There are those that are part of the cultural mosaic that are serving members in uniform and can speak more than the two national languages.  These individuals are very proud of their ethnicities and cultures and make very **** good soldiers.

-the patriot-  :cdn:

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2003, 16:26:00 »
"BUT!! If in uniform you are obligated to defend our country even if invaded by the U.S"

Tell that to the soldiers in quebec who were ready to rip off the canadian flag and join the country of quebec.

The MPs who went around the army base in quebec asking that should have been tried for treason instead of it being chalked up as a "misunderstanding".
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Offline PikaChe

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2003, 16:31:00 »
Your Oath of Allegiance must mean something, not just mere words.

Offline Otto Fest

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2003, 00:23:00 »
Excellent Scenario, and great thread!  This demonstrates that in a true democracy decisions must be made by concensus or the political bank of goodwill is quickly exhausted, as is our case now with the US.  If I may comment on the validity of the situation however, it has some flaws that are on the verge of being fatal.

Firstly, any debate over water would involve the great lakes commission, one of the most effective and powerful bilateral committees in the world.  In other words, any disagreements would not be between the US and Canada, but involve Ontario, New York, Michigan, Illinois and Ohio.  All have vested interests in the well being of the lakes and action by the US government to divert waters would be akin to the NEP - very expensive politically.

Terrorist attacks by WMD solely on the US assume a focus by terrorists not in evidence.  One interpretation of the Koran is that anyone not a muslim is an infidel, and I don‘t believe they would discriminate between Canadian and US infidels.  (As an aside, our government should not assume that the thin line on a map will protect us from Muslim attacks because we‘re ‘Canadian‘.  So far it‘s just the terrorists luck most casualties have been American.)

Lastly, the question asks if Canadian soldiers will follow orders, while assuming that our plethora of police and intelligence services fail to cooperate completely with the US.  What‘s their motive?  Surly it is the protection of the general public that is best served by the sharing of information with their contemporaries.

Hope I haven‘t strayed too far from the mark, but wanted to make my comments.  Facinating thread.
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cheechue

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2003, 02:19:00 »
Quote
"BUT!! If in uniform you are obligated to defend our country even if invaded by the U.S"

Tell that to the soldiers in quebec who were ready to rip off the canadian flag and join the country of quebec.

The MPs who went around the army base in quebec asking that should have been tried for treason instead of it being chalked up as a "misunderstanding".
Really? Didn‘t know that happened...when was this?

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2003, 18:53:00 »
A few years back during one of the referendems (sp?). It was something about an MP going around a base in quebec speaking with the soldiers finding out if they would join the new quebec army or whatever if quebec seperated. Some people thought it was treason, the goverment chalked it up to a misunderstanding.
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Offline BSpencer

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2003, 22:26:00 »
Quite simply, I am a Canadian.  Canada is more worth defending than my own life.  Furthermore, so are the people.  If such a situation were to occur... I fight for Canada, for the people, even if our government had become so lacking as in this scenario...

As was quoted before, we‘ve heard the song our enitre lives, it‘s something were proud of, and in such a situation I‘m sure we would indeed "stand on guard".

Beautiful country, just like the people.

I‘d support OUR country, and fight
  :cdn:
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Offline SynapticHammer

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2003, 11:25:00 »
Canada can count on me.

Now, I must run away quickly before all the rhetoric and dogma in this thread buries me alive!  ;)

Cheers.
 :cdn:

Offline SynapticHammer

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2003, 11:26:00 »
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Etown

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Re: A country worth fighting for? (ninty, never mind!)
« Reply #44 on: May 25, 2003, 18:37:00 »
Quote
If the Canadian government is destroying that which I believe to be "canadian" values, and someone else is going to set the balance right, I might not be happy about an invasion, but I might be more upset that one was necessary.
 
Now this scares me. Why wouldn‘t you do something to set the balance right, after all it is your government, elected by you and responsible to you. Besides how can an external observer possibly set the balance right? How can you be sure they have your best interests in mind, or any of your interests for that matter.

Me, well I‘d fight. I‘d defend my country against any invader regardless of the reason. Quite simply Canada fought for and won its freedom a long time ago and if someone else takes issue with the way we run our affairs that is their problem. Now at the same time we must realize that were the above example real it would not be the fault of the government, as many of you have expressed, it would be the product of Canadian apathy.

It astounds me how many Canadians don‘t vote and still run around complaining about the lack of democracy in this country. Even my own mother once said that "Canadians get one day of democracy every four years", despite the fact that she‘s lived in this country for over thirty years and hasn‘t once applied for citizenship, you don‘t get much more Canadian than that.

Not to mention that those that do vote haven‘t got the foggiest idea how to vote. The whole western theory that you should vote for the party that is going to win the majority vote or you wont get anything done is a big fallacy. This has been going on for decades and the west still hasn‘t realized that if you vote for a party that doesn‘t care about the west you‘re still going to get screwed. I mean come on...it‘s basic knowledge, responsible government only works if you vote for the best candidate in your riding regardless of party association. Canadians don‘t elect their Prime Minister, never have and never will, so we should stop pretending that we do, and vote for the MP that you actually want representing you, before this all gets too far out of hand.

*Steppin off of my soapbox*