Author Topic: How does the loss of the CAR still affect training and capabilities?  (Read 15143 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 251,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,969
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Yea, and come up with a fancy new name, like..........Special Service Force?     
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Infanteer

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 172,380
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,253
  • Honey Badger FTW!
Special Service Force 2.  Then, like the JTF 2, people can take wild guesses at why it got its name and argue about changing the name to something better.... ;D
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline MrGnr27

  • MrGnr27
  • New Member
  • **
  • 40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 44
Bruce ! C'mon man ! You are supposed to be on my side!!

 ( How many times did you run up Zipperhead Hill with that towing eye anyway ? )

Offline GO!!!

  • Fallen Comrade
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 0
  • Posts: 1,856
  • Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence
Those gunners and sappers that jump are doing it without established positions (and the corresponding money from Ottawa).   That means there is no money for them to train in that capacity unless they are piggy-backing a 3 VP exercise or taking funds from another source.

The approach to light engineering is different in every area and every regiment.   There is no set standard and so no guarantee of what you will get.

The army's clear statements that it will not establish a jump capability lead me to suspect you will not see black hatters jumping in anytime soon, as you've suggested.

No.   The jump companies do live in a bubble.   There is just enough outside support to make it work in Canadian training areas, and enough window dressings to fool some into believing we have an all arms jump capability.

I'll slow down a bit for you.

THERE ARE ARTY JUMP POSITIONS.

THEY DO WEAR MAROON BERETS AND RECIEVE JUMP PAY

THERE ARE JUMP MEDICS - THEY ALSO WEAR MAROON BERETS

THERE ARE JUMP SIGNALLERS - GUESS WHAT THEY WEAR?

THE SAPPERS JUMP WITH US TOO - but they wear green -

What do black hatters have to do with anything?

Just to clarify as well - just because you are unaware of an event/policy/capability, does not mean it is non - existant.

As to the army's "statements" about not establishing a para capability, please substantiate, this doesnt jive with the 30 new para positions for the 3rd Bns as of next month.

"just enough to work in trg areas"? "window dressing"? Firstest with the mostest is the the way airborne ops are planned and executed. There is no "ideal" way to organise a coy cbt team - sacrifices will have to be made somewhere according to the situation on the ground.

Furthermore - the people who are supposedly "fooled" include the Bde Cdr on down  - all except for you apparently.

If you require further clarification - ask.
No leader was ever hated for being too hard, but a great many were for attempting to appear that way.

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 52,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,962
Quote
The army's clear statements that it will not establish a jump capability lead me to suspect you will not see black hatters jumping in anytime soon, as you've suggested.

mcG: could you expand on these statements? I'm not familiar with them. Not to say that they don't exist, but rather that they seem to be at variance with what is going on in the Light Battalions right now.

Cheers.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,762
THERE ARE ARTY JUMP POSITIONS.
THEY DO WEAR MAROON BERETS AND RECIEVE JUMP PAY
This is news to me.   How many and how are they distributed between the brigades?

THERE ARE JUMP MEDICS - THEY ALSO WEAR MAROON BERETS
THERE ARE JUMP SIGNALLERS - GUESS WHAT THEY WEAR?
Yes, these have been around for a while and along with the riggers, they make up the minimum occupations needed to support an exercise jump in Canada.

What do black hatters have to do with anything?
I assumed your reference to DFS jumping was to the LdSH DFS experiment.   If it was in reference to your DFS Pl, then yes that is a topic the LFWG is looking at.

THE SAPPERS JUMP WITH US TOO - but they wear green -
I know we do.   However, we do not have established jump positions.   Every CER has a different approach to the parachute and light roles.   There is no standard.   Currenlty all of our entitled equipment is for a mechanized force, so we are not established for specialty tools that might be better suited to a parachute role.

mcG: could you expand on these statements? I'm not familiar with them. Not to say that they don't exist, but rather that they seem to be at variance with what is going on in the Light Battalions right now.
I'm having trouble traking anything down at the moment (maybe better luck through the DIN).   In any case, it was an answer to a question about establishing sapper jump positions.   There would be none because the army had no intent to create an expanded jump capability.   Unless something new fell out of the november LFWG, I have not heard that this "no growth" plan has changed.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 14:41:28 by MCG »

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,762
Okay I found a reference (though not the one that I was looking for) in the LFWG terms of reference.  They state that "LFC light forces will not generate an airborne (i.e. parachute assault) capability."

http://lfdts.kingston.mil.ca/web_temp/DGLCD/04_ACDB/2004/040706%20EM/Pres/Item_4_CLS_CD_%20Planning_Guidance_Light%20_Forces.doc
(DIN access required)

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 251,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,969
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Quote,
Bruce ! C'mon man ! You are supposed to be on my side!!

I am on this, my post was severly adrift in a sea of sarcasm........ :-X

Quote,
.( How many times did you run up Zipperhead Hill with that towing eye anyway ? )
...I beleive it was M/Bdr Greenwood[?] who looked at you and said something like, " Just get him over here, haven't you realized he's too stupid too stop?"   ;)
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline kj_gully

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 3,335
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 387
OK, I've waded thru the bulk of this thread, and feel that I have something new to offer up. Back near the start, MR. Ted rather eloquently dissed a Marine style light force for Canada, he said it was imperial. At any rate, it appears that Gen. Hillier is on track to provide Canada with a marine style Army.With that in mind, I think it could be very exciting to explore the Marine recon "Gunny Highway" ops. See the posts in the Engineer thread on Combat diving. I think Para Commandos, or Rangers, or whatever you call them, are a fantastic venue for training, motivating, and retaining quality soldiers, but we are too small to have that and a marine expiditionary force. Mind you, the Rangers did play the traditional "Marine" role in Europe while the US marines were busy in the pacific. So para qualified pers, speciallized in amphibious ops would be a great tier two force for Canada's soldier.For ever, well at least since the end of WW2, Canada has tried to be all things for all situations. This has led to a diluted level of proficiency at everything. That is why this supposed "bold vision" of an expiditionary CF is exciting. We need to choose a deployment method, and become the best at it. It sounds as though it will be seaborne, rather than Airborne. Troops start thinking SBS vs SAS, Marines VS Ranger, I think the writing is on the wall

Take care, warriors