Author Topic: Reserve Pension- Merged  (Read 397377 times)

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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1150 on: March 31, 2016, 22:20:38 »
An alternative would be to split the questions up, and have an opposition MP submit them as written questions on the order paper for the day. Then the minister must answer them.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1151 on: April 01, 2016, 13:27:37 »
Received this from Mike on the Regimental Net:
Quote
Well, surprise, surprise. I received a phone call from the Pension Services supervisor Wednesday morning stating that my pension had been received by DMCA in February and that it had been in the audit stage but is now complete.

She asked for my email address in order for her to send me my pension information so that I could fill out the various forms and return to them in a scanned format and to mail the original documents back to them so that they could finalize it.

Undoubtedly, posting my letter on Defence Watch lit a great big fire under someone’s *** to get it completed. I find it too much of a coincidence that my pension was finalized the same morning my letter to the MND was posted on Defence Watch. Obviously someone wants to quickly shut me up.
My concern are other service members who are still waiting for their pensions and undoubtedly some of them have been waiting much longer than me.

As a trained staff officer I know and understand the bureaucracy and won’t let it push me around. I wonder who will do this for our soldiers who may not have the same insight of the bureaucracy or writing skills.
I wonder how many retired service members there are and if this prolonged and unnecessary delay is causing them or about to cause them financial hardship too. Maybe other retired service members who have been waiting excessively for their pension should write the MND, cc their MP, and request a ministerial inquiry. They could use my letter as a template and modify it for their own needs. Then, they could then send a copy to you for online publication on Defence Watch. It obviously expedites the process!

Pension Services do not want a Ministerial. After several requests, the AG will not audit the RFPP.
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Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1152 on: April 02, 2016, 17:46:43 »
I've read through the majority of this thread and also the CF pension website but haven't found a specific answer to my question.  Hopefully those that have gone through the process can give a quick and easy answer on how top-up's work.

For those members that only need to top-up (ie don't need to buy back) upon switching from the reserve pension to the part I reg force pension, is the top-up amount strictly only the difference between your reserve pension contribution and what the reg force contribution would've been in the years you were part of the reserve pension plan, or is there additional interest added on top of this difference over those years?  And if so, what type of interest is calculated for the top-up portion?

I'm assuming it's just the difference and no additional interest is added (unlike what was the case for actually buying back) but I just wanted to double check.  Also the pension calculator on the pension website is not working as usual so wasn't able to do an estimate from there.  Thanks in advance!

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1153 on: April 03, 2016, 12:29:16 »
Some light reading fora Sunday morning, taken from the Canadian Forces Superannuation Regulations 14.6(2) (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._396/FullText.html)

Simplified: If you did not have a buyback, but are only making a top-up, for each calendar year you pay the difference between what you contributed and what you would have had to contribute.  There is no interest.  And it appears that you buy back at the historical contribution rates.

If you had a buyback (the second instance described below), it is similar, except they used the adjusted earnings calculation used for the buyback, and pro-rate per the buyback you made - so if, for example, in your Reserve Pension buyback you only purchased back three-quarters of your service, your top-up could not exceed that 75%.

Clear as mud?

Quote
(2) A contributor who makes a top-up election shall pay the full amount or a lesser amount for which the contributor opts at the time of making the election.

(3) The full amount is

(a) in respect of pensionable service described in paragraph 14.2(a), the total of amounts determined for each calendar year by the formula

B - A

where

A
is the amount that the contributor was required to contribute as a participant under the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations on their earnings, for that calendar year, that remained to their credit as pensionable earnings for the purposes of those Regulations on the day before the contributor became a member of the regular force, other than earnings that came to their credit as a result of a past earnings election,
B
is the amount that the contributor would have been required to contribute under section 5 of the Act in that calendar year had they been required to so contribute on an amount of salary equal to their former earnings for that calendar year; and
(b) in respect of pensionable service described in paragraph 14.2(b), the total of amounts determined for each calendar year by the formula

(D - C) × E

where

C
is the portion of the full amount, excluding interest, determined for that calendar year by the formula in subsection 15(2) of the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations for the purposes of the past earnings election referred to in paragraph 14.2(b) of these Regulations,
D
is the greater of the value of C and the amount that the contributor would have been required to contribute under subsection 5(1.01) of the Act on an amount of salary for the year of the past earnings election equal to the amount that would be determined as their updated past earnings for that calendar year for the purposes of the past earnings election, if the amount of their past earnings for that calendar year were adjusted by subtracting the amount of any earned premiums in lieu of leave and adding the amount of any allowances calculated in respect of that calendar year in accordance with section 9, and
E
is the proportion referred to in subsection 26(1) of the Reserve Force Pension Plan Regulations in relation to the past earnings election that was made.
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Offline Snakedoc

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1154 on: April 04, 2016, 12:06:25 »
Thanks that helps a lot actually!  I saw that post previously on the formulas but started to get confused when they referred to other formulas in paragraph 14.2(b) so wasn't sure if there was an interest calculation on the top-up.  Glad there isn't.

Hopefully this mess with all the reserve buybacks settles soon, at least the newer guys who will only need to do top-ups will have it easier hopefully.. for now.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1155 on: April 04, 2016, 12:21:00 »
Thanks that helps a lot actually!  I saw that post previously on the formulas but started to get confused when they referred to other formulas in paragraph 14.2(b) so wasn't sure if there was an interest calculation on the top-up.  Glad there isn't.

Hopefully this mess with all the reserve buybacks settles soon, at least the newer guys who will only need to do top-ups will have it easier hopefully.. for now.

Buybacks can be relatively straight forward, provided people have all their service paid via RPSR.  It's the more mature folks (ahem) with service in both RDS and RPSR that take so long, since the RDS data is not available in an electronic format, and thus is verified from paysheets, route letters, and old spools of microfilm... with each day or half-day of attendance verified, rank and IPC on that date confirmed, makign it very labour intensive.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1156 on: September 07, 2016, 13:51:20 »
CAF members now have online (through the DWAN) access to information on their pensions.  You require an active PKI card.  Information is in CANFORGEN 101/16 http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/default-eng.asp?path=/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2016/101-16_e.asp

They are still working out a number of issues with the site, but provided you are on the DWAN with a PKI card, you now have easier access to pension information, and can do "what if " scenarios more easily than in the past where you'd have to find a clerk with appropriate access.

Start here: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/fac-caf/accueil-home-eng.html
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1157 on: November 14, 2016, 08:27:55 »
A CPO2 had the wrong box ticked on his release paperwork, so he was transferred to the Sup Res, and not released.  Thus, his pension would not start until he had a year without earnings, to his surprise.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/military-vet-bankruptc-clerical-error-year-without-pension-1.3849338
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1158 on: November 14, 2016, 09:09:09 »
Sounds like he had way more problems than filling out the wrong form...
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Offline Spectrum

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1159 on: November 14, 2016, 10:38:38 »
CAF members now have online (through the DWAN) access to information on their pensions.  You require an active PKI card.  Information is in CANFORGEN 101/16 http://vcds.mil.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/default-eng.asp?path=/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2016/101-16_e.asp

They are still working out a number of issues with the site, but provided you are on the DWAN with a PKI card, you now have easier access to pension information, and can do "what if " scenarios more easily than in the past where you'd have to find a clerk with appropriate access.

Start here: http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/fac-caf/accueil-home-eng.html

Haven't had a chance to look at the CANFORGEN or the web application...any idea if it enables you to estimate Transfer Value? Or only useful to those eligible for their actual pension? Thanks.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1160 on: November 14, 2016, 10:39:49 »
If you are eligible, transfer values (up to 3 months out from the current date) are offered.
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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1161 on: December 19, 2016, 12:14:33 »
Interesting case coming before the courts, objecting that RCMP officers working part-time can't buy back days not worked to increase the value of their pensions.  Simplified, it appears they want to treat days not worked as leave without pay, so they could pay member plus employer contributions for those days to increase their final benefits; right now, when working part-time, the calendar year counts against the 35 year limit, but the pension benefit is pro-rated based on the number of days worked.  Should they be successful, it may have an impact on Reservists in the part I (full-time) pension plan as their situation is similar.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-pension-plan-constitutional-challenge-women-part-time-1.3898780
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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1162 on: February 04, 2017, 08:40:43 »
Hello,

I'm the CFO in the family and am an Omers member. My husband is the one in the military and it is his pension benefits that I'm asking about. I think I'm mixing up Omers terms with the CF Superannuation definitions and could use a bit of help. Omers uses 'Pensionable Service' and 'Qualifying Service' in pension calculations.

Pensionable Service versus CF Service question:

We did a lump sum buyback and top up for service back to 1986. He has 30 some years of 'pensionable service' now and reached his 9131 days at the end of 2015. The Pensionable Service number comes from the initial buyback forms plus subsequent years of continuous Class B contracts.

The new pension calculator uses 25 something years in his pension estimate with a release date this summer. I'm looking for clarification on the pension formula. For simplicity, I'm not breaking out the bridge benefit.

Pensionable Service x 2% x Average Salary

Is this the correct formula? The calculator uses 25 years instead of 30 years.

Average Salary question:

I could almost swear I read that the CF pension was based on the Best Consecutive 60 Months of Salary. But maybe I just saw what I expected it to be rather than what it said. Omers is Best 60 Consecutive Months.

I now found reference to a definition of 'Average Salary', that being the best five years of paid service.

Is this correct?

We are both taking a year off to travel with the kids while they still like us.

I was on a four over five plan where I took a 20% pay cut for four years and will now receive that deferred salary during our year off. I can buyback this year off by paying both the employee and employer pension contribution to Omers.

With regards to DH, we initially thought he had to release since there is no formal option to take Leave Without Pay. Now I've been told that he can release. Take an immediate annuity (receive his pension). Re enroll after our travel year. And start paying back into his pension without having to repay the benefits he received.

Further, because he did not receive any salary during that year off, his best five years just rolls over that year, kind of like it never happened.

For clarification,

I thought (using $100k and years for simplicity only):
2014 100k
2015 100k
2016 100k
2017 zero
2018 100k
Best five is (100k+100k+100k+0+100k)/5

But now I'm told this, if he comes back for two more years after the trip:
2014 100k
2015 100k
2016 100k
2018 100k
2019 100k
Best five is (100k+100k+100k+100k+100k)/5

Not even a requirement to buyback that missing year!?

This just seems TGTBT. It's difficult to throw away common wisdom on this. When it seems TGTBT than it probably is. Especially combined with being able to take just one year of pension and then re enroll.

If you've read this far, my apologies for a very long post and too many questions.

Any help or clarification on this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks much, NJD


« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 09:17:56 by NJD »

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1163 on: February 04, 2017, 11:55:02 »
Get ready for a bumpy ride... things are complex.  (I'm also providing some info on Severance here, since I saw you asking about that in another thread).

1.  Severance (the old RFRG): Since your husband is releasing (and he must release; a transfer to the Supp Res will not trigger pension entitlements), the severance is a "retiring allowance" under the income tax act.  Therefore, for all years prior to 1996, you may put $1500 into RRSPs above and beyond your normal contribution room. If he enrolled in 1986, that makes 10 years or $15K that can be rolled into RRSPs above your available contribution room.  Ref: http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/rtrns/t4/spcl/trnsfr-eng.html

2. For Reservists in part I of the CFSA, like your husband, there are two numbers that are important: Years of pensionable service, and days of CAF service.  A year of pensionable service is a year enrolled in the plan.  That year can include both paid and unpaid days.  The benefit is calculated based on Days of CAF Service.  Thus, any years where your husband was enrolled in the CAF but not working full-time, he does not receive credit for days he did not work.  So a benefit calculated on 25 years out of 30 years is not, om its face, unusual. Ref: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._396/page-7.html#h-18

3. Average salary for a Reservist in Part I is calculated differently; there's a formula in the Superannuation Regulations.  Annualized earnings are calculated for each calendar year of service.  Simplified description: Take pay earned in the year, divide by the number of days worked in the year, and multiply by 365 to get the annual salary for the year.  The best 5 consecutive years of annual salary are used to determine the benefit. Ref: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._396/page-7.html#h-18

So, assuming you husband does re-enrol after a year away, and assuming that he is not absent for one full calendar year, then as long as he has some earnings in each calendar year he will have his earnings for those years included in a future benefit calculation.

Note that if your husband does re-enrol he cannot buy back the year away.  No service = no buyback.

He will have to meet the enrolment standard for the CAF, the same as anyone coming in off the street; serving members who no longer meet the enrolment standard or their occupational standard can be retained; once they're out, they are a new entrant, like any other person.  There is no guarantee of re-enrolment or resumed full-time employment.
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Offline NJD

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1164 on: February 04, 2017, 15:20:53 »
dapaterson, crystal clear.

Thanks for the great explanation. Especially the 'average salary'. I never would have figured that out.

With regards to CAF Service, yesterday I was speaking with a guy in Pension Services (he called for DH but was kind enough to speak with me in his absence). I aked for clarification and he kept saying Pensionable Service. Your info makes alot more sense.

Thanks again!

Offline NJD

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1165 on: February 04, 2017, 17:09:24 »
So, assuming you husband does re-enrol after a year away, and assuming that he is not absent for one full calendar year, then as long as he has some earnings in each calendar year he will have his earnings for those years included in a future benefit calculation.

I've had some time to think about this and have more questions if you don't mind.

Assuming he re enrolled successfully upon our return, if he does 10 Class A days each month (instead of full time) is this math correct:

Using the $100,000 per year salary in my previous posts, that's a $274 Class A work day. He could earn $10,960 in the remaining four months of 2018 (10 days per month x four months x $274 per day).

The average salary calculation for 2018 would be $100,010 ($10,960/40*365)?
As if he was still Class B for the whole year?

Of course, CAF Service would only accumulate at the actual number of days worked, so just 40 days for 2018?

But the average salary calculation is pretty sweet. I must still be missing something?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1166 on: February 04, 2017, 22:26:08 »
No, you're (almost) correct.

The only thing (and it's a Good News thing) is that class A pay is credited for 1.4 days of CAF service per day worked, so if he works 40 class A days, he would be credited for 56 days of CAF service.
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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1167 on: February 05, 2017, 09:31:49 »
Ah, 1.4...
is this to account for not being paid for weekends like Class B (5 days x 1.4 is 7)?

He is part of the succession plan upon our return. No guarantee of a full time contract but a Brigade position is probable. Our concern was based on things I had all wrong.

I thought he couldn't accept a pension and then later re enroll (without having to pay it back).
I thought the best five clock would have to reset or include a year of zero earnings
And I certainly didn't think that Class A days would have such a generous effect on pension benefits.

It seems that this year off won't have too much impact on our finances in the long run. Nor on his career.

Thanks so much for your guidance.

« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 09:51:18 by NJD »

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1168 on: February 05, 2017, 10:05:28 »
I seem to recall reading,  but can't easily find it, that once a member becomes part of the Part 1 Superannuation then remains in Part 1. Is that right?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Reserve Pension- Merged
« Reply #1169 on: August 21, 2017, 17:22:47 »
Interesting case coming before the courts, objecting that RCMP officers working part-time can't buy back days not worked to increase the value of their pensions.  Simplified, it appears they want to treat days not worked as leave without pay, so they could pay member plus employer contributions for those days to increase their final benefits; right now, when working part-time, the calendar year counts against the 35 year limit, but the pension benefit is pro-rated based on the number of days worked.  Should they be successful, it may have an impact on Reservists in the part I (full-time) pension plan as their situation is similar.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-pension-plan-constitutional-challenge-women-part-time-1.3898780

And the appeal was unsuccessful.

Quote
The judge agreed that while the majority of Mounties who work part-time are women with young children, she said they also benefited from spending more time with their children and less stress in trying to find child care.

As for the overall impact on their pensions, Kane found it would be reduced, on average, by five per cent but that "it is difficult to conclude that the impact is necessarily adverse."

The women's lawyer, Paul Champ, said today's judgment is a big disappointment for his clients, who fought the issue inside the RCMP for 10 years before turning to the courts.

"The court recognized that care for children disproportionately falls to women in Canada, including women in dual-earner families, Champ wrote in an email to CBC News.

He said his clients are reviewing the judgment and considering an appeal.

"Hopefully the federal government will take a close look at this decision and recognize that pension plans for RCMP and public service workers need to be reformed to be more equitable for parents who choose to temporarily work part-time to care for their children. This would be the right policy choice for a feminist prime minister," Champ said, in reference to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's own oft-stated description.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-pension-young-mothers-federal-court-1.4151519
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