Author Topic: Court Martial discussion (merged)  (Read 77987 times)

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Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2005, 15:35:31 »
Let me get this straight.   Your saying that if I were a civy and got caught trafficking I would on average receive 14 days in jail and a fine?   Seems light in either system.

Technically if you passed a joint to another person you trafficked in drugs (it is commonly refered to as "social trafficking" (which doesn't go to court in the civilian system). Now I don't know the circumstances surrounding this particular incident however I have seen individuals in CF charged for trafficking when they have done just that, and I suspect this may have been the case here. It seems to be a catch all charge when a number of soldiers cop to smoking or using drugs with each other. However just to set your mind at ease there is a  person serving significant DB time, 65 days (a matter of public record) for trafficking in a small amount of drugs.   Plus you have to keep in mind that CF members are usually released once they are convicted of these sorts of charges, which the military courts view as an added punishment.
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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2005, 16:43:39 »
yeah I guess.
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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2005, 16:44:35 »
Does getting convicted for drugs in the CF get you a "record" that is accessible to civies (ie like civies would get).
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Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2005, 17:01:18 »
Does getting convicted for drugs in the CF get you a "record" that is accessible to civies (ie like civies would get).

In years past no, if you committed a serious offence within the military i.e. assault, sexual assault, drugs, it was buried with your CF records. Within the last 2-3 years however new changes in legislation compel the military police to use the Identifications of Criminals Act and the DNA Identification Act to pass this information along to the Canadian Police Information Centre (CPIC) for certain offences. So if you do a nasty, your fingerprints, photograph and for sexual offences, your blood (for a  DNA profile) are submitted and are accessible to the civilian police, in short you have a criminal  record.
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2005, 17:29:14 »
Jumper,
This here "In years past no, if you committed a serious offence within the military i.e. assault, sexual assault, drugs, it was buried with your CF records." doesn't jive with what happened when I got out.
I tried to get a pardon for a  civilian charge at 16 but was thus informed by the pardons and local police that ANY charge under NDA was there for minimum 5 years.
Trust me, its one of my the piss-offs about the time I served, lets see late once in the last 3 years of his job, ......almost all jobs/ positions= great employee........military= 5 years before pardon.[ and the 200 dollar fine, of course]


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Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2005, 17:42:10 »
I should add a caveat if you were charged by the Military Police and your case went through the civilian courts you would be subject to the Identification  of Criminals act. You mentioned you were 16 when you tried to get a pardon, so I'm assumig this offence didn't happen while you were in the military. Secondly  if you were charged under the NDA (under the old system)  how would the civilian police get your conduct sheet? It's attached to your pers file and they have no access it, therefore they wouldn't know what you were charged for.. I'm afraid somebody was leading you down the garden path.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2005, 17:52:30 by Jumper »
"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to
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- General Ulysses S. Grant

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2005, 17:49:12 »
No, simple "awol"  for less than 30 minute- type CO's punishment, still have all the letters and responses that my father wrote to our local MP on my behalf.    No luck....
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Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2005, 17:56:00 »
Since AWOL is not a Criminal Code Offence I don't understand why you would need a pardon?
"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2005, 18:02:24 »
Whoops, confusion..the criminal charge was for Theft over 200 when I was 16. When I planned on getting out 11 years later I wanted to apply for some jobs that would have required a criminal free past so I tried for a pardon but was informed it would take 2 more years  BECAUSE of the military charge 3 years ago.. [and they had the records]
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Offline NewCenturion

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2005, 14:53:48 »
A good link for information on pardons is http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-47/text.html  the Criminal Records Act.
"There never was a time when, in my opinion, some way could not be found to
prevent the drawing of the sword."
- General Ulysses S. Grant

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2005, 15:02:21 »
Whoops, confusion..the criminal charge was for Theft over 200 when I was 16. When I planned on getting out 11 years later I wanted to apply for some jobs that would have required a criminal free past so I tried for a pardon but was informed it would take 2 more years  BECAUSE of the military charge 3 years ago.. [and they had the records]

LOL: you did 11 years for theft over 200? WTF did you steal, a gold brick?

Offline Island Ryhno

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2005, 15:23:19 »
LOL Whiskey, here all this time I thought Bruce was a screw, not The screw  ;D
"A young man who does not have what it takes to perform military service is not likely to have what it takes to make a living."
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Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #37 on: July 05, 2005, 22:20:42 »
I think he meant getting out of the army.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #38 on: July 05, 2005, 23:29:52 »
I know. ;)

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2005, 01:49:26 »
Quote from Whiskey 601,
LOL: you did 11 years for theft over 200? WTF did you steal, a gold brick?

....wow, thats why they called me "goldbrick" ;)
Na, I did the first 3 years for theft over 200, the rest I did for the same reason as Holmoka....
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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2005, 02:01:57 »
If my long term memory serves me, I believe it was Former Commandant of the Marine Corps Chesty Puller that was quoted saying:
 "You ain't a Marine till you've been to the Brig and caught the Clap"

I'm sure he wasn't thinking in that specific order of events....
 
Most lifers had a stack of "Page Elevens" that would replace the offending one in your PRB when changing duty stations....   ::)

I guess I'm only half, I tend to pick my dates better....

Offline TCBF

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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2005, 02:08:13 »
I was too drunk to catch the clap.  We seemed to have a lot of crab infestations in Pet.  Of course, by the time this came to life, buddy was in the field, and the Medics wanted to treat everone in his call sign.  Kinda funny when the CO's driver started to scratch...

Tom
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Re: Court Martial Transcripts
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2005, 02:47:36 »
 ;D or the CO himself  haha

I was in Korea for some winter fun and games along the DMZ back in 1979, hummm you know they still shoot at us... ops another story, well the young ladies of well the oldest profession, aka Bush Bunnies, well being rather full of energy and more then willing to work hard for thier money... some times took to thier work to the extreme....

One young PFC in my section was well I'd say trying to wear it out....  as the rumor of the dreaded "black clap" and other unpleaentness floating around, this young Marine was concerned about some rather painful feelings comeing from his lower half.  We sent him off to see the Corpsman, well I was in the BAS shooting the turds with HM3 Doc Joker our Corpsman, warming up in the tent, being some 40 below outside... well in comes PFC Pomes walking slowly and painfully....  "Step into my Office and drop trou PFC" Doc Joker advised

being behind a screen he had no clue anyone else was there....  he discribed his perdickerment to the Corpsman and Doc Joker said with the most concrened medical voice:
"Holly S#$% Pomes, you know what you got!, my god you may ever be allowed to leave Korea..."  Pomes to say the least was speachless, stunned at the idea of a life time of pain and discomfort....   

Doc walks back to where I was and whispered in my ear with a boyish smile....  "watch this..."  out comes some rubbing acohol and some cotton ballls....  pouring a liberal amount of acohol into a lil stainless steel bowl, Doc walks back in and begins to tell Pomes the evils of his ways and the fact that this may be the end of life as he knows it...

Doc finishes with "I'll  fix an IV and some Penicillan, first wash it off and I'll be right back..."  Pomes, well not being the brightest bulb in the pack, did just that...

Just as Doc walked back to join me, Pomes began his task....  Out comes a blood curdling screm I'm sure was heard in North Korea....

By now Doc is laughing his *** off and steps back to see Pomes and informes him all he had was some friction burns.... and to try a little lube or foreplay next time... 

Doc Joker didn't just get that nickname for nothing.... cruel but effective.... and well from our prespective enteraining as well....

 ;D



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Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2008, 04:52:52 »
Quietly announced same day as new CDS....

Department of National Defence Introduces Amendments to The National Defence Act
CF news release NR-08.037,  6 Jun 08
News release - backgrounder

OTTAWA - The Honourable Peter Gordon MacKay, Minister of National Defence and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency today introduced legislation in the House of Commons to amend the National Defence Act (NDA) following the recent decision of the Court Martial Appeal Court of Canada (CMAC) in R. v. Trépanier.

“This Bill will more closely align procedures for the selection of mode of trial by court martial and court martial decision-making with the approach in the civilian criminal justice system, while preserving the attributes essential to satisfy the unique needs of the military justice system,” said Minister MacKay.  “It will ensure that the court martial process continues to function in a manner in which Canadians can have trust and confidence.”

On April 24, 2008, the CMAC struck down the provisions of the NDA authorizing the Director of Military Prosecutions to select the type of court martial that will try an accused and requiring the Court Martial Administrator to convene the selected type of court martial.  The Court ruled that they violated the accused person’s constitutional right to full answer and defence.  The decision has removed the authority to convene courts martial, an essential step in bringing a matter to trial.

The legislation introduced today will result in the selection of the mode of trial being governed by operation of law.  The number of types of court martial will be reduced from four to two, and the accused will have the ability to choose the type of trial in circumstances similar to those set out in the Criminal Code.

“The changes will bring the needed clarity, certainty and stability to the military justice system,” said Brigadier-General Kenneth Watkin, Q.C., Judge Advocate General.

-30-
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Offline Occam

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Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2011, 11:56:29 »
I won't post the individual's details here, but there's an upcoming CM, and the general message announcing the CM states this:

A. NDA SECTION 129 - ALTERNATIVE TO THE SECOND CHARGE - AN OFFENCE
PUNISHABLE UNDER SECTION 129 OF THE NATIONAL DEFENCE ACT, THAT IS TO
SAY, CONTRARY TO ARTICLE 26.02 OF THE QUEENS REGULATIONS AND ORDERS,
FAILED TO INFORM HIS COMMANDING OFFICER THAT HIS COMMON-LAW PARTNER
HAD OBTAINED EMPLOYMENT IN HALIFAX NOVA SCOTIA

B. NDA SECTION 129 - ALTERNATIVE TO THE FIRST CHARGE - IN THAT HE
FAILED OT INFORM HIS COMMANDING OFFICER THAT HIS COMMON-LAW SPOUSE
OBTAINED EMPLOYMENT

C. NDA SECTION 125 - WILFULLY MADE A FALSE STATEMENT IN A DOCUMENT
SIGNED BY HIM THAT WAS REQUIRED FOR AN OFFICAL PURPOSE

The charge sheet actually reads:

Charge 1 (alternate to charge 2): S. 129(2)(b) NDA, neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline.
Charge 2 (alternate to charge 1): S. 129(1) NDA, neglect to the prejudice of good order and discipline.
Charge 3: S. 125(a) NDA, wilfully made a false statement in a document signed by him that was required for an official purpose.

I've racked my brain trying to think of an occasion where I would be obligated to inform my CO that my spouse had obtained employment, but I'm not coming up with anything.  Anyone else think of a reason?

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2011, 12:08:25 »
Could entitlements for Parental Leave be a possibility?

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pub/cbi-dra/205-eng.asp

Quote
205.461(10) (Limitation) PATA is not payable to a member under paragraph (7) if the two-week waiting period is served by:

   1. a person in receipt of maternity benefits; or
   2. another person who is also in receipt of parental benefits in relation to the same child.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 12:12:52 by Michael O'Leary »

Offline Oh to be purple

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Re: Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2011, 12:14:36 »
Could be several things
-Claiming IR or LTA benefits if member claims spouse resided elsewhere.
-Claiming Parental benefits

Obviously has to do with some sort of fraud


Offline dapaterson

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Re: Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2011, 12:29:49 »
Court Martials are a matter of public record.  I suspect you are referring to R v MCpl Smith

http://www.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca/ccm-cmc/fca-cs/doc/smith2.pdf


The QR&O referred to in the first charge reads:

Quote
26.02 – DOMESTIC EVENTS AFFECTING PENSION, ANNUITY, PAY, ALLOWANCES, BENEFITS OR EXPENSES

(1) An officer or non-commissioned member shall notify their commanding officer in writing of changes in their family status and of the occurrence of other domestic events that might affect the member’s pension, annuity, pay, allowances, benefits or expenses and the commanding officer shall report to National Defence Headquarters any circumstances that might bring the member’s eligibility into doubt. (1 September 2001)
 
(2) Where documentary evidence of the event is available, the original document, a photocopy or a notarized copy shall be submitted to the commanding officer.
 
(C) (1 September 2001)


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Offline Occam

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Re: Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2011, 13:34:35 »
Could entitlements for Parental Leave be a possibility?

Hmmm...yes, that could definitely be it, although the circumstances would be interesting to hear.  I suppose the charges would fit if he claimed his wife had already served the waiting period when in fact she had not.

-Claiming IR or LTA benefits if member claims spouse resided elsewhere.

Can't be that, as that would be related to spouse's residence and not employment status, right?

As for the QR&O, I'm still drawing a blank when it comes to a reason when I would be obligated to notify the CO in writing that my spouse had found employment.  I've never once informed my CO in writing or otherwise that my wife either found a job or got laid off/quit - although as long as I'm having my taxes deducted at source as single, it doesn't really affect my pension, annuity, pay, allowances, benefits or expenses.  Or does it?

I'm looking forward to seeing the transcript of the decision on this one!

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Re: Court Martial discussion (merged)
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2011, 21:52:00 »
I'm thinking that person charged is living/employed in one place, stated that their common law spouse was living with them on a stat dec and now turns out that they are not...straight fraud by the sounds of it.  Anyother thoughts?

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