Author Topic: What do I wear when I arrive?  (Read 22970 times)

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Offline Manimal

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What do I wear when I arrive?
« on: July 09, 2005, 14:15:01 »
the recruiter told me that BMQ will start about nov. this is for the weekend BMQ for P.Res in Owen Sound, but i will start parading with them on thursday nights once i get all cleared and offered the job.....but i know nothing, because i haven't started the BMQ.

will the give me a list of how to dress proper, stand, what,when and who to talk too, where to go....etc.
i can see me getting there, ask the wrong person a question, have my boot laced wrong, and just spending the rest of my life in his/her crap book doing a million push ups. i'm going to get yelled at a lot for the first while eh..... :crybaby:

did any one else do the parade night before BMQ? and what do they do on those nights?

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Offline CanadianTire

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2005, 10:28:16 »
I got sworn in the week before stand down.

The first night was all about papaerwork and being shown around.

The second night, the night of stand down, was finishing off a few things from the week before and then pretty much standing around and watching.  Not very exciting, but it was good to watch and absorb things.

Mind you, I also did not have a uniform at this point.  So, we'll see what September brings.

And you'll learn pretty quick whom you should come to attention to!  ;D
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Offline Manimal

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2005, 12:53:02 »
they only people i don't think i'll have to free are the little ones that look more scared they me. unfortunately i'll stand out. 193 cm tall, and 230lbs lol

and i'm pretty sure they will let me know when i mess up! no worries there.
the recruiter was so nice, always very friendly and helpful. the day i handed in my application, she was really busy, but took the time to get me all done, and another girl too. so she ended up behind, but still talked to us, gave advice and help etc..... i wonder how different she'll be once i'm in uniform.... "you scum, taking up all my time with your stupid questions, start the push ups now, you can finish them next week if you don't get done ha ha ha" no, she's not going to be like that right?

i've seen to many movies. lol
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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2005, 14:33:38 »
I would definitely say that you have seen too many movies...lol, Don't worry about too much about the things you can't control. There will be some measure of leniency afforded to you because you haven't gone to BMQ as of yet but don't try and run with that, learn as much as you can by observing and listening to your seniors. Don't sweat it, you'll be just fine.
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Offline Manimal

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2005, 19:07:25 »
i'm assuming by your name and picture you're an RN, i am as well. i work in the owen sound hospital.
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Offline Rohandro

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 15:24:21 »
I have received many different answers on this and I was sure so im just asking you guys. What exactly am I supposed to wear when I show up to st jean, Ive been told dress clothes to sweatpants and sneakers. do they expect me to show up looking a certain way?

Thank you
Recruiting Centre: Toronto
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Offline Conrod94

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 16:22:23 »
From the CLFRS website

Dress:
When you show up at CFLRS, you must wear appropriate and comfortable clothes to be able to walk long distances when conducting your arrival procedures. The following types of clothing are strongly recommended:

Male candidates:
Shirt and/or sweater, clean pants and shoes (comfortable clothes) and clean shaved.

Female candidates:
Blouse and pants, shoes (comfortable clothes)
"platform and high heels" shoes and not allowed.
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Offline Jayrickson

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2014, 14:11:50 »
Plenty of people wore shorts, and t-shirts with runners/sneakers.
You'll only wear them for 3 days and 6 weekends anyway, don't bring alot.
I survive with 1 pair of runners, 1 pair of jeans, 1 pair of shorts, and 2 golf tees (my preference, everyone else usually has tshirts)

If you showed up with nothing, Supply+Canex will provide more than enough of what you need for your entire stay. 

Just look like a (reasonably clean cut) scared sheep and you'll fit right in for the first couple weeks.
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2014, 15:54:36 »
This already been asked multiple times.  and when in doubt follow the directions you were given/posted on the CFLRS site.  We don't need another topic

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Offline Justin8456

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2015, 23:24:04 »
I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to start a new topic so I'll post in this thread since its relevant. I got sworn in Dec 2 2014 with the RHLI reserve unit and was told that I might start this January. I haven't heard anything yet. I called the unit last Wednesday asking if they know when I start, and the guy I talked to basically said he had no clue. He told me to go to parade night next Tuesday and that I could have gone the day before. I'm unsure if I should go or not being an untrained private. Also the fact that I was never initially told to go to parade nights. I asked him what to bring and he said he wasn't too sure. I asked what to wear and he just said "relish coloured clothing" which I have an abundance of. This is where the conversation ended. I talked to my buddy who's a Cpl in the unit and he said he didn't start going to parade nights until a few weeks into his training. He seemed a bit confused when I told him my situation. I'm just looking for any advice or tips anyone could give me or a "what would you do" type response. Anything helps. Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2015, 23:27:29 by Justin8456 »
Recruiting Center: CFRC Hamilton, ON
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Trade Choice 2: Weapons Tech
Trade Choice 3: Supply Tech
Application Date: Started Jan 6 2014 online.
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BMQ Begins: TBD

Offline G.R-B

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2015, 22:49:46 »
So, I was told by my unit that I wouldn't have my uniform before starting BMQ, which in my case will only be around September. The only rule I was told concerning what I should wear is "Clean, no jeans." My only concern is that I do not want to tear a pair of dress pants/shirts doing the odd push-ups or handling stuff. Are clean work pants (dickies and the likes) with a work shirt ok? Or should I buy some cheap dress pants/shirts that I don't mind ruining?

Offline jwtg

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2015, 01:36:19 »
You'd have to be doing push-ups very poorly  in order to tear your pants while doing them.

I've seen people show up for BMQ/BMOQ wearing suits, dress pants/shirts, khaki pants/collared (polo) shirts....odds are they aren't going to be particularly strict on your civvie attire.  Dress decently.  Think golf course and you'll be fine.

Before you do anything strenuous enough to tear clothing, you'll be wearing issued PT/CADPAT.

Offline GreenWood

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2015, 09:09:50 »
They will have you change to PT if you're going to be doing anything physical whether it's BMQ or your unit.

Best of luck at BMQ  ;)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 09:13:03 by GreenWood »

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 09:51:49 »
You'd have to be doing push-ups very poorly  in order to tear your pants while doing them.

I've seen people show up for BMQ/BMOQ wearing suits, dress pants/shirts, khaki pants/collared (polo) shirts....odds are they aren't going to be particularly strict on your civvie attire.  Dress decently.  Think golf course and you'll be fine.

Before you do anything strenuous enough to tear clothing, you'll be wearing issued PT/CADPAT.

Don't be so sure about that.  ;)

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Offline G.R-B

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 10:51:44 »
Don't be so sure about that.  ;)



I'll aim for the one on the left and hope for the best  :P.

I'm probably over thinking this... I showed up for my first parade night just hours after my swearing in ceremony, and was wearing a suit and tie. We did a few push-ups, which was not a problem, but the floor was so dirty that the only thing I could think about was the dry cleaning bill if they asked for sit-ups. Add the stress of the first night to that and the "I have no idea of what I'm doing" look on my face, and I must have looked like a wreck. :facepalm: Anyway, as its been said so many times here, I'm not the first to join, they know what they'r doing.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 11:22:35 »
... I showed up for my first parade night just hours after my swearing in ceremony, and was wearing a suit and tie. We did a few push-ups, which was not a problem, but the floor was so dirty that the only thing I could think about was the dry cleaning bill if they asked for sit-ups. ...........................:facepalm: Anyway, as its been said so many times here, I'm not the first to join, they know what they'r doing.

Actually, I would not have a good opinion of a unit that pulled off what you just described.  It would be proper to wear a suit and tie to be sworn in.  Good on you for that.  For them to have a dirty floor, reflects on that unit.  For their leadership have you do push-ups in your suit and tie after being sworn in reflects poorly on their leadership.  I would not agree that they know what they are doing at all. 
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Offline GreenWood

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2015, 12:30:28 »
I'll aim for the one on the left and hope for the best  :P.

I'm probably over thinking this... I showed up for my first parade night just hours after my swearing in ceremony, and was wearing a suit and tie. We did a few push-ups, which was not a problem, but the floor was so dirty that the only thing I could think about was the dry cleaning bill if they asked for sit-ups. Add the stress of the first night to that and the "I have no idea of what I'm doing" look on my face, and I must have looked like a wreck. :facepalm: Anyway, as its been said so many times here, I'm not the first to join, they know what they'r doing.

I see two things wrong with this

1. Making you do push-ups in a suit and tie

2. Why are the floors so dirty!  ;D

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2015, 13:29:51 »
Actually, I would not have a good opinion of a unit that pulled off what you just described.  It would be proper to wear a suit and tie to be sworn in.  Good on you for that.  For them to have a dirty floor, reflects on that unit.  For their leadership have you do push-ups in your suit and tie after being sworn in reflects poorly on their leadership.  I would not agree that they know what they are doing at all.

Dirt on the RSM's parade square?   :o
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Offline Gunshark

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2015, 13:38:08 »
I am also wondering whether a recruit is to attend parade nights with their unit during part-time BMQ. Or is part-time BMQ done on alternate weekends AND one night a week, so that you don't have the chance to attend parade nights?

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2015, 14:09:42 »
I am also wondering whether a recruit is to attend parade nights with their unit during part-time BMQ. Or is part-time BMQ done on alternate weekends AND one night a week, so that you don't have the chance to attend parade nights?

 I've always had my Pte's come in to the unit on the weekly training nights back when I worked with the Reserves, even while on weekend BMQ.

 Some units might tell you not to bother until you're done, talk to your Warrant or Company Sgt Major he'll set you straight.
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Offline Ontario23

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2017, 10:52:53 »
Hey, sorry if this is not worth asking or if this is in the wrong section. I had my enrollment ceremony recently and I am now part of a training company, and I am expected to parade for the first time this week. I have not had my kitting appointment scheduled and was told to wear civilian clothes, but not sure what this means. I'm assuming this doesn't mean show up in jeans and a t-shirt. Does anyone know what someone should wear if they do not have a uniform yet? Thanks a lot.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2017, 10:56:19 »
If I was you I'd wear jeans and a T-shirt, maybe a hoodie.

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Offline Loachman

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2017, 11:00:12 »
With the hood down.

And unripped, clean clothes with no stupid slogans on the T-shirt.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2017, 11:23:37 »
A pair of comfortable but not stupid looking shoes or sneakers would also be neat.   :nod:

By not stupid looking, I mean like 'not ski boots...or, as cool as they would look, Gene Simmons boots on the cover of the Destroyer album also might draw peculiar looks as well.

Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline Brihard

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2017, 11:46:23 »
Hey, sorry if this is not worth asking or if this is in the wrong section. I had my enrollment ceremony recently and I am now part of a training company, and I am expected to parade for the first time this week. I have not had my kitting appointment scheduled and was told to wear civilian clothes, but not sure what this means. I'm assuming this doesn't mean show up in jeans and a t-shirt. Does anyone know what someone should wear if they do not have a uniform yet? Thanks a lot.

Correct- Jeans and T Shirt would be inappropriate. Show up as if you were going to a job interview.
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Offline runormal

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2017, 12:14:41 »
You could always ask your chain of command that is what they are there for...

In any event I'd wear something nice, but not too nice that if it gets ripped or stained that it matters.

A polo and a pair of khakis should do the trick. Though I've seen Pat's walking around in shirts and ties at my unit.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2017, 13:07:03 »
Correct- Jeans and T Shirt would be inappropriate. Show up as if you were going to a job interview.



But he's already had his job interview. He was hired and is showing up for work as a part of the training company. If he's an NCM he'll probably be given small party tasks under the QM or something. He's going to ruin his nice clothes if he has to wrestle with mod tent etc.. 
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Offline Ontario23

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 14:22:37 »
Thank you for the answers, everyone!

Offline Brihard

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2017, 14:28:34 »
From what I remember, before we were issued our uniforms, they issued us coveralls.

And promptly put us to work washing trucks.  :)

We get it, you were a paramedic. We've got enough guys here presently working in army reserve units to be able to give the guy sound and pertinent advice. At my unit our new guys show up properly dressed until instructed otherwise. If they have to throw a shirt in a wash after, so be it.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Brihard

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2017, 15:41:06 »
Excuse me? I was referring to when I was a 16 year old MSE Op recruit in the PRes.

Which is why I was careful not to offer any "how to dress" advice.

I take it you do not have a problem with the other reply to your post?
Reply #22

I had forgotten that. I apologize.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline SRidders

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2017, 15:55:00 »
Cover all bases by bringing a change of clothes. Show up in a nice pair of pants and buttoned up shirt. In a bag have a pair of casual pants and polo shirt you don't mind getting dirty. Lastly, pack a pair of shorts/sweat pants and tee shirt in case they have you doing PT.

Always be prepared.

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 18:15:33 »

I'm glad you two made up as you both have some of the most erudite comments on this board.


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Offline Brihard

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2017, 20:48:11 »
Better still, he post a comic from The Oatmeal.

I'm sick as hell right now. Man-cold, and so likely to be fatal. I'm pissy and miserable, and Mariomike is symbolic of the medical system that's powerless against my likely death. I got snippy for no good reason and it was uncalled for. THAT's what I should be apologizing for, not that I forgot he too was once a reservist.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2017, 21:13:33 »
Better still, he post a comic from The Oatmeal.

I'm sick as hell right now. Man-cold, and so likely to be fatal. I'm pissy and miserable, and Mariomike is symbolic of the medical system that's powerless against my likely death. I got snippy for no good reason and it was uncalled for. THAT's what I should be apologizing for, not that I forgot he too was once a reservist.

Actually, maybe you're snippy for a reason.  He routinely posts unrelated stuff about the Toronto EMS stuff in every thread that has SFA to do about EMS.  If you've noticed lately, there are a few people who are tired of the EMS stuff spamming in *any/all threads* that have nothing to do with EMS.

So...it's probably something that has been agitating to you, as it has been others.  I'll add my name to the list too.  I don't  constanly (or ever...) post stuff about LRP and ASW in the EMS threads so...ya.  It's getting old.  He isn't so swept up on getting the (not so subtle?) hints from a few members either so... :dunno:
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2017, 21:46:36 »
Don't like my posts? Simple solution. Don't read them.  :ignore:


Or, if you have nothing relevant to say, don't post.  Easier on more people, myself included.  Why not just leave the EMS stuff out of the non-EMS threads.  If its not relevant, based on knowledge or at least a bad attempt at humour, why bother.  You've mentioned the Toronto EMS angle enough times for us all to get it.   :2c:
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2017, 21:59:49 »
The point isn't a personal one.  I'm not the only one who notices the constant irrelevant posts about EMS, Toronto EMS.  This is really simple...just stop comparing non-related discussions to Toronto EMS.  And posting about Toronto EMS in...every thread that has nothing to do with Toronto EMS.

Seems pretty simple.  I and others shouldn't have to ignore you, you should just be mature enough to stop spamming the military threads with non-military stuff.  Brihard might have made a post and then said sorry, but the point still was made, and it has been recently by several other people in other threads.

End of discussion for me, the point is clear and simple and has been made by atleast 4 different people now in less than a week.   :dunno:

« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 22:08:27 by Eye In The Sky »
Do I love my job?  No.

But does it afford me the ability to go on lavish vacations and buy anything I want?  Also no.

Online PPCLI Guy

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2017, 23:44:14 »
The point isn't a personal one.  I'm not the only one who notices the constant irrelevant posts about EMS, Toronto EMS.  This is really simple...just stop comparing non-related discussions to Toronto EMS.  And posting about Toronto EMS in...every thread that has nothing to do with Toronto EMS.

Seems pretty simple.  I and others shouldn't have to ignore you, you should just be mature enough to stop spamming the military threads with non-military stuff.  Brihard might have made a post and then said sorry, but the point still was made, and it has been recently by several other people in other threads.

End of discussion for me, the point is clear and simple and has been made by atleast 4 different people now in less than a week.   :dunno:

Way off base Dude.  There was no cause to call out another member.

We read all of your "no one respects MPA" and ""flying is hazardous" posts..... 

Like the man said, use the ignore button.....and not the ignorant button
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

Karl von Clausewitz

Offline George Wallace

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2017, 08:52:56 »
It has been soooooo long ago since my first ever Parade Night in Yorkton, but I am fairly sure I showed up in sneakers, clean jeans and shirt.....[Edit to add].....and issued my Battle Dress and Bush Dress uniforms, webbing and kit. 

Today every Reserve unit is different in what they expect you to wear on your first Parade Night.  They should instruct you what to wear, depending on what their evening plans are.  They may issue you a pair of coveralls, as Mariomike was, for the evening.  They may instruct you to bring in Gym Clothes.  Whatever may be the case, the Unit should give you some direction in advance what to wear.

My last Unit had our new members come in dressed as for "business" in a suit, with family members/guests to witness them at an Enrolment Ceremony where they were presented their Certificate of Enrolment and signed the final documents necessary to enroll them and start their records and pay.  They and their family members then had a tour of the unit and let go early after being instructed what to wear for their next Parade Night. 

Every unit is different, and SHOULD tell you what to wear for your first night.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2017, 09:02:40 by George Wallace »
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Offline phishygutz

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2017, 15:16:03 »
Hello all; this is my first post and this seemed like the relevant board.

I was sworn in two days ago and told that I would be starting BMQ this Sunday (2 days from now). Because of the tight timeframe, I have not been kitted yet. I was told to wear my 'nice' civies when I show up this weekend. What does that entail? Do slacks and a button up shirt work?

Thank you in advance!  :)

Offline mariomike

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2017, 15:22:16 »
I was told to wear my 'nice' civies when I show up this weekend. What does that entail? Do slacks and a button up shirt work?

Dress on arrival to BMQ 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,62894.0.html
2 pages.

Dress code on arrival at CFLRS?
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=113893.0

First Parade Night BMQ/No Uniform 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,32449.25.html
2 pages.

Parade night before having a kit 
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:I-EOSrFEpAkJ:army.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D118674.0+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
OP: "The only rule I was told concerning what I should wear is "Clean, no jeans." My only concern is that I do not want to tear a pair of dress pants/shirts doing the odd push-ups or handling stuff. Are clean work pants (dickies and the likes) with a work shirt ok? Or should I buy some cheap dress pants/shirts that I don't mind ruining?"

No Kit for BMQ start 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=96773.0

No kit and leaving for BMQ in two days looking for an advice 
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HozVDAwFoAsJ:https://army.ca/forums/index.php%3Ftopic%3D119311.0+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Clothing for BMQ?
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=116432.0

etc...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 15:34:53 by mariomike »

Offline phishygutz

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2017, 15:31:18 »
Thank you mariomike! I certainly have a bit of reading to do haha  :nod:

Offline mariomike

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2017, 15:36:20 »
Thank you mariomike! I certainly have a bit of reading to do haha  :nod:

You are welcome. Good luck.  :)

As always,  Recruiting, and your unit, are your most trusted source of information.

Offline nic32

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2017, 16:34:33 »
I was in the same situation when I started my PRes BMQ. It tooks 3 weeks to get my uniform. During that time (Winter), I was wearing a polo, beige pants and clean boots. Don't worry, just be presentable.

Offline mariomike

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2017, 17:09:39 »
Various discussions regarding how to dress ( if you have not yet been issued a uniform ) for PRes BMQ / first parade night. May rate a super-thread.

The OP appears to be attending PRes BMQ.

I also saw this on the CFLRS website, for what it is worth,

"When you arrive at CFLRS, you must wear appropriate attire to be able to walk long distances when conducting your arrival procedures. Collared shirts and comfortable pants (or equivalent for females) are recommended. Do not report in beach-style sandals."
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 06:21:12 by mariomike »

Offline Pusser

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Re: What do I wear when I arrive?
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2017, 13:46:58 »
My last Unit had our new members come in dressed as for "business" in a suit, with family members/guests to witness them at an Enrolment Ceremony where they were presented their Certificate of Enrolment and signed the final documents necessary to enroll them and start their records and pay.  They and their family members then had a tour of the unit and let go early after being instructed what to wear for their next Parade Night. 

Every unit is different, and SHOULD tell you what to wear for your first night.

How nice.  I saw pictures of a recent enrollment, where all the new enrollees were in suits and ties, but the CO and RSM were in CADPAT!  Really?  How disrespectful!  How unprofessional!
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.