Author Topic: Designated Marksman  (Read 31369 times)

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Offline NinerSix

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2016, 10:13:06 »
After looking at a few threads about this topic, I pick this one to bump.

There was, I am told, a program to generate some Sharp Shooters (SS).

What, if anything, is happening with this initiative?
The process is not the mission.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Designated Marksman?
« Reply #51 on: May 24, 2016, 10:33:31 »
Military Police, Eh! Boy, I would not want to go to trial based on your case notes if that's you level of factual precision.  [:D

"There was, ..."   When! A year ago, five years ago, ten years ago ??

"... I am told ..."   By whom, Your Chain of command, your bunkmate, a guy you watched over in the drunk tank ???

"... generate some Sharp Shooters ..."  What, pray tell is a Sharp Shooter? A sniper, a mid-way between ordinary soldier shooting quals and a sniper, a qualification level in shooting (you get a badge?) or just a program to teach shooting at a higher level ???

A few particulars to your post may generate better (any) answer.
 

Offline Underway

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Designated Marksman
« Reply #52 on: December 30, 2017, 15:59:10 »
Has there been any thought or analysis given in Canada regarding a Designated Marksman or "Sharpshooter" being added to the section or platoon organization?  There are a number of countries that use designated marksmen and find it useful to have a heavier rifle integrated into each section.  Is this something we should look at or is our recent experience pointing us at in a direction that this isn't really required.

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2017, 16:03:26 »
Probably not until the next war we get into.

I’m sure there’s papers/articles/AARs from Afghanistan regarding them, but they aren’t something we currently have in the battalions.  We are getting back a couple roles/skill sets into the battalions(Cbt Sp not Rifle Coy) though.  Maybe the next thing we will see is DMs brought back, although filling those positions in each platoon will be a challenge(manning wise).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 16:30:19 by Pickle Rick »

Offline devil39

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2017, 17:40:48 »
We had DM in my rifle coy in '02, and even got C3 issued.   Recce Pl and the Sniper Union were quite upset, as usual :)  Apparently bolt action rifles and scopes were thought to be too complicated for a Rifle Coy.  Pretty sure the recommendation made it into the Lessons Learned documents.  Don't think it has ever made it to doctrinal change though, but makes great sense for overwatch and offset from fire base...etc.

Offline Underway

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2017, 18:51:05 »
We had DM in my rifle coy in '02, and even got C3 issued.   Recce Pl and the Sniper Union were quite upset, as usual :)  Apparently bolt action rifles and scopes were thought to be too complicated for a Rifle Coy.  Pretty sure the recommendation made it into the Lessons Learned documents.  Don't think it has ever made it to doctrinal change though, but makes great sense for overwatch and offset from fire base...etc.

It seems like it would provide more punch to the section from a heavier round as well as provide accurate fire from the 250-700m range.  It's pretty clear that a designated marksman isn't a sniper what with regards to role and how they function in a section.

Why a bolt action instead of something that was closer to say an M14.  Or any semi auto rifle with a clip, 7.62mm.  Perhaps because it was what was in the inventory?  Bolt action just doesn't seem that useful for close in fighting.


Offline devil39

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2017, 19:28:58 »
It seems like it would provide more punch to the section from a heavier round as well as provide accurate fire from the 250-700m range.  It's pretty clear that a designated marksman isn't a sniper what with regards to role and how they function in a section.

Why a bolt action instead of something that was closer to say an M14.  Or any semi auto rifle with a clip, 7.62mm.  Perhaps because it was what was in the inventory?  Bolt action just doesn't seem that useful for close in fighting.

It was an inventory thing.   We had brought some with us from Winnipeg I seem to recall.  M25 or US Marine DMR would be preferable.

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2017, 19:37:25 »
We had the C7CT(?) for Designated Marksman in Afghanistan, not sure which year they came out though or how many were/are in the system.  I don’t recall if there were AR10s for the Marksman to use, or if they were only for the Snipers.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 19:57:57 by Pickle Rick »

Offline mariomike

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2017, 20:14:47 »
Has there been any thought or analysis given in Canada regarding a Designated Marksman or "Sharpshooter" being added to the section or platoon organization? 

What, pray tell is a Sharp Shooter? A sniper, a mid-way between ordinary soldier shooting quals and a sniper, a qualification level in shooting (you get a badge?) or just a program to teach shooting at a higher level ???

See also,

Designated Marksman
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&q=site:army.ca+%22designated+marksman%22&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpgpmQibPYAhUIzIMKHe5eD38QBQgmKAA&biw=1280&bih=603

« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 20:28:15 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2017, 22:22:24 »
Has there been any thought or analysis given in Canada regarding a Designated Marksman or "Sharpshooter" being added to the section or platoon organization?  There are a number of countries that use designated marksmen and find it useful to have a heavier rifle integrated into each section.  Is this something we should look at or is our recent experience pointing us at in a direction that this isn't really required.

If you want an operational role for the reserves, this would be it IMHO vs mortar/ pioneer etc etc.

We all have  access to ranges and rifles and, with the right support, the correct field craft and other technical training.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline TacticalSnoopy

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2017, 22:51:52 »
We had the C7CT(?) for Designated Marksman in Afghanistan, not sure which year they came out though or how many were/are in the system.  I don’t recall if there were AR10s for the Marksman to use, or if they were only for the Snipers.

Interesting. I was a Sniper Det Comd when I left the Infantry and the AR10Ts were just coming into the system. In fact, my det commander course was one of the first to use them. I loved that rifle. We were told that they were going to be used in a DM role though I never really heard much about their employment after I left. I've often wondered what role they ended up being employed in.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 22:54:31 by TacticalSnoopy »

Offline Brihard

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #61 on: December 31, 2017, 12:34:16 »
To me a platoon level DM capability seems like a no brainer, and well worth trading in a rifleman. They could be tossed into a section easily enough if need be, but more likely would stay with platoon weapons det. Put a decent 7.62x51 AR platform with a good scope into the platoon, you’ll have a great asset for observation and precision fire where it’s called for. And a weapon that anyone in the platoon could pick up and comfortably use in a pinch.

I can see this being real value added in pretty much any type of dismounted combat operation... picking off leadership or support weapons in the defense, similar in offensive ops from a platoon firebase... Get into operations short of full out conventional war where valid targets may be among civilians in a rapidly developing gong show (riot outside a camp or base gone wrong), stuff like that... And a good optic is always an asset to the platoon.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Designated Marksman
« Reply #62 on: January 06, 2018, 12:19:18 »
A certain westcoast reserve Infantry unit already has the right individual to teach such thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXJFpVW2mDM&t=520s