Author Topic: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)  (Read 486815 times)

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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #500 on: June 26, 2016, 02:05:54 »
ok. I get it. The bus is getting blown up, burned up, shot up, etc....
I never asked why no c-collar. I just found their lifting technique a little bit different than anything I had ever seen on the job. And that includes our Tactical, Heavy Rescue, Marine, CBRNE, PSU, ERU, ESU, MPU, etc. Paramedics.
I understand "CANSOF's TTPs are secret", so I won't ask why.  :)

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #501 on: June 26, 2016, 10:46:37 »
If putting the casualty's legs on the rescuer's shoulders is a new protocol, so be it, but I don't see how that is an improvement over the legacy two-man fore and aft carry.
Less fatiguing on the arms when you have a lot of casualties to move (or have a great distance to move, or still have a requirement for effective upper body strength once the 'move body phase' is complete, etc.... )

Offline Loachman

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #502 on: June 26, 2016, 11:15:19 »
Did you just let the secret out...?

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #503 on: June 26, 2016, 12:58:31 »
Less fatiguing on the arms when you have a lot of casualties to move (or have a great distance to move, or still have a requirement for effective upper body strength once the 'move body phase' is complete, etc.... )
Hands would be free to engage threats as well, and on the shoulders might keep the patient more level coming down the steep bus stairs. Lots of reasons to do it.

Online kkwd

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #504 on: June 26, 2016, 13:10:51 »
I guess this is a technique used elsewhere.

http://www.defense.gov/Media/Photo-Gallery?igphoto=2001551427
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Online mariomike

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #505 on: June 26, 2016, 13:29:18 »
http://www.defense.gov/Media/Photo-Gallery?igphoto=2001551427

 :goodpost:

Milpoints inbound.

The top pic shows empty stretchers set up and in position at the door of the bus. Stretchers are ready and waiting to receive casualties as rescuers step off the stairs and out the door.*
At least one of those stretchers has already received a casualty, and is being taken away by rescuers.

* Fortunately, in spite of the "mock bus explosion" ( as it says in the caption ), the door is still operational.

The bottom pic posted by kkwd shows rescuers, with no stretcher available.

With no stretcher available,  legs over shoulders patient transport would be a viable alternative.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 12:54:14 by mariomike »

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #506 on: June 26, 2016, 18:28:24 »
This is how we learned to do casualty carries... at about 1.47. Of course if the cas has CSpine issues they're doomed with this technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kjXUQoW1HQ


Try not to throw up on the instructors' boots though, it's not cricket.


« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 22:59:50 by daftandbarmy »
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Offline Spencer100

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #507 on: June 27, 2016, 17:27:49 »
After watching the show and seeing the screen shots. Everyone is wearing a different uniform then arid cadpat.  Why the change? 

Offline Ludoc

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #508 on: June 27, 2016, 18:06:27 »
Look Cool Factor

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #509 on: June 27, 2016, 19:08:51 »
After watching the show and seeing the screen shots. Everyone is wearing a different uniform then arid cadpat.  Why the change?

CSOR has been using Multicam for many years, even when everyone else was using Arid CADPAT. It also brings them closer in line to other Special Operations Forces of our allies.

Multicam is much more effective multi-environment camouflage.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #510 on: June 27, 2016, 22:56:13 »
CSOR has been using Multicam for many years, even when everyone else was using Arid CADPAT. It also brings them closer in line to other Special Operations Forces of our allies.

Multicam is much more effective multi-environment camouflage.

Which is why we have Cadpat, right? ;)
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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #511 on: June 27, 2016, 23:01:19 »
Which is why we have Cadpat, right? ;)

Carrying multiple types of uniform doesn't really sound light or cost effective, especially since the CA can barely kit out its own soldiers with CADPAT (TW) uniforms that aren't falling apart or made like a moo-moo.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #512 on: June 27, 2016, 23:11:43 »
Which is why we have Cadpat, right? ;)

Tests of patterns have been largely inconclusive; as with many things military, the subjective opinion of the senior person present is taken as "proof".

If you'd care to look at a large number of designs, there's always https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_clothing_camouflage_patterns
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #513 on: June 28, 2016, 01:29:30 »
Which is why we have Cadpat, right? ;)

CADPAT is all political and has nothing to do with being effective. TW is great for some Canadian environments, and AR is great for others. Having witnessed Multicam at work first hand in Canada, I don't understand why we haven't adopted it service wide other than money and Canada's undying need to be "unique" rather than actually supply us with effective uniforms, equipment, vehicles, etc. 

Same reason US had UCP for so long and after only a few years in both Iraq and A'stan, adopted Multicam as it is much, much more effective in a wide variety of environments.

Carrying multiple types of uniform doesn't really sound light or cost effective, especially since the CA can barely kit out its own soldiers with CADPAT (TW) uniforms that aren't falling apart or made like a moo-moo.

Also, this.  :salute:

"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Underway

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #514 on: June 28, 2016, 09:12:44 »
CADPAT is all political and has nothing to do with being effective.

CADPAT when it came out was a revolutionary design.  DRDC studies showed that with CADPAT compared to the old olive greens, and with the at the time US army camo, showed a 20-30% reduction in the distance that an observer needed to be before they sighted the wearer.  The IR signature reduction was something that no one had at the time either.

The US Marine Corps signed up with their own version fairly quickly.

If it has been surpassed by new camouflage models (mainly ones that don't contain any black in them) then that's fine.  But you can't say the CADPAT was all political and not effective.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #515 on: June 28, 2016, 09:49:55 »
CADPAT when it came out was a revolutionary design.  DRDC studies showed that with CADPAT compared to the old olive greens, and with the at the time US army camo, showed a 20-30% reduction in the distance that an observer needed to be before they sighted the wearer.  The IR signature reduction was something that no one had at the time either.

The US Marine Corps signed up with their own version fairly quickly.

If it has been surpassed by new camouflage models (mainly ones that don't contain any black in them) then that's fine.  But you can't say the CADPAT was all political and not effective.

I understand that in it's inception it was revolutionary, but now that it has been nearly 2 decades since it's been in service.

Now, it's not so effective for the types of situations we and our allies are getting into. When you need quick adaptability from woodland, grassland, desert, to urban; our two very exclusive uniform patterns are not up to par.

CADPAT TW is great for spring time, in the mountains and foothills, in Canadian environment and garrison. CADPAT AR is great for strict desert, sand, and very light brown/tan environments.

But it doesn't cover the in betweens and diverse biomes. Multicam and it's derivatives do much better, and for our safety and effectiveness, to ignore the fact is purely political. Keeping jobs in the hometown of some former DND bureaucrat/Ret'd general.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #516 on: June 28, 2016, 10:02:14 »
Keeping jobs in the hometown of some former DND bureaucrat/Ret'd general.
Can you explain?

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #517 on: June 28, 2016, 10:29:12 »
But it doesn't cover the in betweens and diverse biomes. Multicam and it's derivatives do much better, and for our safety and effectiveness, to ignore the fact is purely political. Keeping jobs in the hometown of some former DND bureaucrat/Ret'd general.

Short of some constantly-changing chameleon suit, no one pattern can provide the best cover for everything - Multicam wouldn't work that well in the snow, for example.  So, what you're really suggesting is to have 5 patterns (CADPAT TW for the spring/fall, AR for desert, MC for the "in betweens", potentially a winter pattern for snow and an urban pattern), not to replace all with MC. 
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Online PPCLI Guy

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #518 on: June 28, 2016, 10:34:42 »
Multicam and it's derivatives do much better, and for our safety and effectiveness, to ignore the fact is purely political. Keeping jobs in the hometown of some former DND bureaucrat/Ret'd general.

I'm curious - which hometown, and which Ret'd General?
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #519 on: June 28, 2016, 10:38:50 »
I'm curious - which hometown, and which Ret'd General?

No idea, possibly none,  hence why I said "some".

Could be said about our boot fiasco and other piss-poor procurement.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #520 on: June 28, 2016, 10:44:11 »
No idea, possibly none,  hence why I said "some".

Could be said about our boot fiasco and other piss-poor procurement.
        ::)

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #521 on: June 28, 2016, 10:45:15 »
No idea, possibly none,  hence why I said "some".

Could be said about our boot fiasco and other piss-poor procurement.

So, a random slur without basis?  A completely uninformed comment? 

Thanks for the input.
"The higher the rank, the more necessary it is that boldness should be accompanied by a reflective mind....for with increase in rank it becomes always a matter less of self-sacrifice and more a matter of the preservation of others, and the good of the whole."

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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #522 on: June 28, 2016, 11:14:46 »
Short of some constantly-changing chameleon suit, no one pattern can provide the best cover for everything - Multicam wouldn't work that well in the snow, for example.  So, what you're really suggesting is to have 5 patterns (CADPAT TW for the spring/fall, AR for desert, MC for the "in betweens", potentially a winter pattern for snow and an urban pattern), not to replace all with MC.

Other than the Winter Whites, we could reduce our compliment down to a single uniform. MC/Scorpion is very versatile.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Spencer100

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #523 on: June 28, 2016, 15:03:50 »
URGH! 

The whole things sounds dumb to me.  Why have a whole different uniform?  If it works for the CSOR it should work for the rest of the forces? no?

Or is it we are special deal?

Offline Underway

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Re: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)
« Reply #524 on: June 28, 2016, 15:50:24 »
URGH! 

The whole things sounds dumb to me.  Why have a whole different uniform?  If it works for the CSOR it should work for the rest of the forces? no?

Or is it we are special deal?

CSOFCOM pers often wear US uniforms/camo for operational security.  That's one of the main reasons for the differences.  I've personally worked with and specifically asked about their choice of gear.  I was told it is often to confuse or misdirect about who is actually operating in the area.  If you wear US camo the enemy (and friends) assume you are a US unit, especially at a distance.  The SOF units have or can get multiple types of camo relatively quickly and try out new stuff.  They also use no-name brand pattern camo that isn't really a particular nations style once again for operational security.  It's not automatically that our stuff is the worst, though I understand the typical Canadian military reflex to think that.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 15:54:52 by Underway »