Author Topic: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?  (Read 3468 times)

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Offline Goldsmith

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A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« on: November 11, 2005, 19:55:31 »
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/special_packages/iraq/11999387.htm
Sunni Men in Bagdhad targeted by attackers in police uniform

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/terrorism/s_347436.html
Associated press
Iraqi Police find bodies of eight beheaded men.


In may of this year reports of unarmed men abducted and found later killed began surfacing in Iraq.  Sunni-insurgents have been killing Shiites and Shia militias such as al-Sadr's Mahdi army have been killing Sunnis in an ongoing cycle of reprisals. More disturbingly, reports of Iraqi security forces(largely comprised of Shiites) have been carring out such killings and torture. The coalition's involvement is highly unlikely in my opinion since 2 SAS soldiers were captured spying on a shiite captain whom had been carring out such abuses. The fact none the less remains that ethnic tention is growing in Iraq. With each respective ethnic group (shiite, sunni, kurd) having its own militias and para-military forces, civil war seems a very real possibility in a post-american withdrawl environment.

Thoughts?

Note: The two articles posted are dated, but the trend continues today, just with significantly less media coverage. Todays paper may mention a sentance or two on civillians killed in this style. Since these killings have become so common its no longer newsworthy to mention them alone, only with the daily carnage of suicide bombings and Americans killed.

Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2005, 13:10:29 »
A more interesting comparison would be exactly how many deaths are being caused by these thugs as opposed to by Saddam's thugs pre-invasion.

It appears the media believes that deaths they couldn't cover are somehow less important than the one's they can get footage of....



Matthew.  :salute:
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Offline Goldsmith

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2005, 23:46:31 »
Yeah right, as if the Saddam the bad guy story hasnt been done to death already. We've heard Saddam do everything from razing villages to pulling incubator cords (bs) and everyone knows he was an oppressive dictator. I'm sorry the media doesnt bow to your partisan objectives but they've done enough to skew things in the states favor over the past ten years. Saddam's past is the card everyone seems to play when the obvious is right in front of them. The situation in Iraq looks out of control because it is, not because the media is too busy making the US look bad to see the "good news" or "progress."   Saddam's crimes were yesterday, sectarian violence in Iraq is today and tommorow.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2005, 23:52:47 »
I do get curious at times when I start to see people pulling out stats on "Body counts".  What is their total?  Then what is the Population of the country they are refering to?  If we went by these "body counts", I am sure there would have been no North Vietnamese left to overrun South Vietnam during the Vietnam War.  So, I am curious at to what the stats really say.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2005, 23:55:45 by George Wallace »
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Offline TCBF

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2005, 00:33:41 »
"There is nothing new under the sun." - My Mother

Once Iraq is back on her feet, she will no doubt realize that things sure would go a lot smoother if that darn renegade breakaway province Kuwait came back into the fold.  Iraq will then begin to drool over Kuwait as China drools over Taiwan. 

I imagine my son will be in the military then.  He could be in for interesting times.

Tom
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


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Offline pbi

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2005, 21:41:32 »
One look at the history of Iraq, pre British mandate, should tell us that the current mess wouldn't really have been much of a surprise. Iraq was an invention, just like Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Both of those latter creations are now history as the nationalities that made them up sought their own destinies: Iraq is just reverting to its normal state. If nobody stops the process, it will probably dissolve into the old provinces again.

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Offline paracowboy

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2005, 21:49:08 »
One look at the history of Iraq, pre British mandate, should tell us that the current mess wouldn't really have been much of a surprise. Iraq was an invention, just like Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. Both of those latter creations are now history as the nationalities that made them up sought their own destinies: Iraq is just reverting to its normal state. If nobody stops the process, it will probably dissolve into the old provinces again.
I foresee a lot more of this in the future, not just in the Middle East, but world-wide. As the last vestiges of the old Empires fade away, the invented nations they created will continue to disappear. Africa is the biggie, I'd say.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline Britney Spears

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 22:02:10 »
In my recent reading of Afghanistan - A Military History from Alexander the Great to the fall of the Taliban by Stephen Tanner, the authour puts forward an interesting comparison. There  exists a country in Europe with very similar historical circumstances as Afghanistan: Mountainous, rugged terrain, multiple languages and ethnicities, a historically martial, heavily armed, independent population which often fought as mercenaries in the armies of other powers. He was talking about Switzerland. The authour ven put forward that Harmid Karzai could learn a great deal from the Swiss model of direct democracy at the level of mountain communities, a central goverment which rigidly guarantees equal representaion of all the ethnic/linguistic groups, and a social apparatus which allows young men from different ethnic communities to mingle and gain a sense of national unity -  The conscript Swiss army. 

Of course, I immedietly realized that there were parallels to the FYR as well...
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Offline TCBF

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Re: A Disturbing Trend: Balkanization?
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2005, 22:14:05 »
Odd, but whenever those in the Recreational Firearms Community mention the Swiss as an armed state, with extensive conscription, full auto wpns and first line ammo at home, and a VERY low crime rate, the authorities end up retreating to points of discussion relating to the Swiss "Cultural homogeonous population."  This point does not get much press in Canada, where we have expended vast resources over the last 50 years to ensure that Canada will be a lot of things in the future, but "Culturally homogeonous" is not one of them.

The tribes of Switzerland - still not entirely free of extremeism in the 20th c. - have a lot better shot at peace than the 'Ghan does.

But why should the 'Ghan, Iraq, or Canada for that matter, exist forever as one country?  Of the ten richest countries on earth, only the USA is big.  The others I think are all under 10 million people.  Growth for the sake of growth is the philosophy of the cancer cell.

So, we must listen carefully to some of the speaches.  Global stability and peace are mentioned much more than freedom, democracy, and economic success.

Tom
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")