Author Topic: New Operational Service Medal Announced  (Read 141680 times)

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Offline Lex Parsimoniae

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #225 on: March 19, 2011, 20:25:06 »
Actually those dates that they awarded were wrong for Vancouver, Algonquin, Protecteur. I just went over my calendar and we were origally supposed to be in Guatemala 5 days last year but we left in under 48 hours because the situation deteriorated beyond our control. So all three ships should be awarded more days cause we left morning of October 1st when we were supposed to leave the October 4th. It doesn't get any of those boats up to 30 days, but its a hole in that list.
The dates are based on when the ships chopped to JIATF(S) control - just being at sea doesn't mean the ships were under JIATF(S) operational control.

*Someone please tell me what CHOP means*
CHOP = Change of Operational Control

Offline navypuke

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2011, 02:56:25 »
From what I heard, we were told by the Guatemalan military that they had it under control, and they would only help if the local politicians would ask for help. I don't think they trust their own army. Since they didn't ask, we were not required. 

Offline gcclarke

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #227 on: March 20, 2011, 03:04:29 »
I think part of it was a bit of overreaction on our part. We heard "There's flooding. People are stuck sitting on their roof." We instantly think that those poor people need to be rescued from said roof. When in fact, this is something that happens every year, the people are perfectly fine where they are and don't need "rescuing", as they're only staying there so they can keep an eye on all their worldly goods, which might otherwise have a tendency to "wander off".

Regardless, the rains could have very easily made the logistics of ferrying people to and from Antigua an absolute nightmare, so the fact we left early isn't surprising, once we found out our assistance wasn't required. I believe the moral of the story is that if the closest place you can go to reasonably enjoy yourself is over an hour away by bus, you should probably look into heading to some other port.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.  Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan ‘Press On’ has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
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Offline Get Nautical

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2011, 04:18:37 »
on a side note I am pretty sure I read somewhere that the US deployed 60 or so people for that, though it might of been a different crazy *** storm.

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #229 on: May 03, 2011, 20:24:11 »
Curious. If you have been awarded medals, are you required to display them on your dress greens?

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #230 on: May 04, 2011, 07:40:00 »
Curious. If you have been awarded medals, are you required to display them on your dress greens?

Yes, you are required to wear them when ordered.  Sometimes, just the ribbons.  But definitely one or the other on the DEU.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #231 on: May 04, 2011, 08:15:13 »
Yes, you are required to wear them when ordered.  Sometimes, just the ribbons.  But definitely one or the other on the DEU.

Not always will one or  the other be required. During my OSQAB grad parade no medals or ribbons were to be worn on our tunics... No one understood the order and the RCR fellow who was a remusted to NWT was miffed... Rumor was the reviewing officer, LT(N), had nil medals. Just the rumor but who knows why now, that was 11 years ago lol
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #232 on: May 04, 2011, 08:20:23 »
Not always will one or  the other be required. During my OSQAB grad parade no medals or ribbons were to be worn on our tunics... No one understood the order and the RCR fellow who was a remusted to NWT was miffed... Rumor was the reviewing officer, LT(N), had nil medals. Just the rumor but who knows why now, that was 11 years ago lol

You have to admit, that's got to be a rare case.   ;)
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #233 on: May 04, 2011, 11:03:18 »
....no medals or ribbons were to be worn on our tunics...
I'll leave it to the RSMs and Adjts to weigh in on the impropriety of that decision, but I'd be miffed too.


Mind you, when I was sentenced to NDHQ and had to wear DEU every day, I had a set of undress ribbons made up that consisted of just my deployment medals. I wore those to irritate a pompous co-worker who had only a CD, explaining that medals like my CD, QGJM, and Peacekeeping weren't "real" medals.



Of course, I'm much more mature now   :nod:

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #234 on: May 04, 2011, 11:41:41 »
Last I looked at the dress regs, the DEU series 1-3 have as orders of dress ribbons if medals aren't appropriate and vice versa.  Sounds a little like another case of "Dress Regs According to Me".  If you have decorations, they go on the uniform - the order of dress and occasion dictates what form those decorations take.

JM - did you make a point of also wearing some of your other accoutrements to rub things in further?

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #235 on: May 04, 2011, 11:46:49 »
JM - did you make a point of also wearing some of your other accoutrements to rub things in further?
Naturally   ;D

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #236 on: May 04, 2011, 11:57:55 »
Thought so, but just checking for the record  ;D.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Pusser

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #237 on: May 04, 2011, 12:29:51 »
Not always will one or  the other be required. During my OSQAB grad parade no medals or ribbons were to be worn on our tunics... No one understood the order and the RCR fellow who was a remusted to NWT was miffed... Rumor was the reviewing officer, LT(N), had nil medals. Just the rumor but who knows why now, that was 11 years ago lol

That is completely and utterly wrong!  All orders, decorations and medals in the Canadian Honours System are honours from the Crown and no one in the CF has the authority to tell someone not to wear them on the appropriate order of dress.  With the exception of longsleeve shirt orders with or without sweaters, there is no order of service dress (DEU) that does not include either medals or undress ribbons.  If you've earned them, you can wear them and no one can tell you otherwise.

Having said that, there is nothing that forces an individual to accept an order, decoration or medal....
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Pusser

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #238 on: May 04, 2011, 12:36:51 »
I'll leave it to the RSMs and Adjts to weigh in on the impropriety of that decision, but I'd be miffed too.


Mind you, when I was sentenced to NDHQ and had to wear DEU every day, I had a set of undress ribbons made up that consisted of just my deployment medals. I wore those to irritate a pompous co-worker who had only a CD, explaining that medals like my CD, QGJM, and Peacekeeping weren't "real" medals.



Of course, I'm much more mature now   :nod:

Sometimes the CD doesn't get the respect it deserves.  Twelve years of one's life is no small accomplishment and for some, behaving oneself for 12 years is a HUGE accomplishment. ;D  Despite the fact that one doesn't really have to do anything to receive a CD (other than behave - or at least not get caught for 12 years), it does represent a level of commitment that should be lauded.  Just because someone was never called to task doesn't mean they couldn't have been.

It's also worth noting that the CD is not a medal, it's a decoration, which means you get a postnominal letters and the right to put it on your personal coat of arms, should you so choose.  No other Canadian long service medal has this distinction.  It really is a step above the others.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #239 on: May 04, 2011, 13:11:07 »
It's also worth noting that the CD is not a medal, it's a decoration, which means you get a postnominal letters and the right to put it on your personal coat of arms, should you so choose.  No other Canadian long service medal has this distinction.  It really is a step above the others.

Well, it is a medal (as opposed to a device or a scroll); one that also happens to be a decoration.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Pusser

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #240 on: May 04, 2011, 13:41:29 »
Well, it is a medal (as opposed to a device or a scroll); one that also happens to be a decoration.

Although we often refer to all of our "gongs" or bits of metal suspended from coloured ribbons as "medals," strictly speaking, this is not correct.  All honours in the Canadian Honours System are broken down into orders, decorations and medals.  Each of these categories are distinct.  In short, not all medals are medals.  Some are decorations and some are the insignia of orders.
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Offline Technoviking

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #241 on: May 04, 2011, 14:40:16 »
It's also worth noting that the CD is not a medal, it's a decoration, which means you get a postnominal letters and the right to put it on your personal coat of arms, should you so choose.  No other Canadian long service medal has this distinction.  It really is a step above the others.
[pendantic mode on]
Actually, and ironically given its name, the Canadian Forces' Decoration is actually a "Long Service and Good Conduct Medal".  There were many Long Service, Good Conduct and Efficiency medals awarded prior to the institution of the CD.  Also note that the Efficiency Decoration, which was given to commissioned officers with 20 years' service, allowed the officer to use the post-nominals "E.D."  (Others did as well, but that is but one other medal for long service, good conduct and/or efficiency that allowed you the honour of the post-nominals.  I don't know about the personal coat of arms, however).
[/pendantic]
So, there I was....

Offline Infanteer

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #242 on: May 04, 2011, 15:05:07 »
[pedantic mode on]
[pendantic mode on]
[/pedantic]

 :D
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline Technoviking

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #243 on: May 04, 2011, 15:08:42 »
Just to clarify and provice a source for my earlier post re: CD not being a decoration. 

I designed the layout for the display at The RCR Museum in London ON many years ago, and I had to ensure that I "got things right" (pre-internet!  I actually had to read books!).  Anyway, these many years later I recalled that the CD was not a decoration, but a long service and good conduct medal.

As stated, there are Orders, Decorations and Medals.  According to A-AD-200-000/AG-000 THE HONOURS, FLAGS AND HERITAGE STRUCTURE OF THE CANADIAN FORCES, "decorations" consist of the following:

Victoria Cross
Cross of Valour
Star of Military Valour
Star of Courage
Meritorious Service Cross
Medal of Military Valour
Medal of Bravery
Meritorious Service Medal
Royal Victorian Medal (RVM)

Some of these are Military Valour Decorations (VC, SMV, MMV) and others are Bravery Decorations (CV, SC, MB), and so forth.

Anyway, Appendix 1 to Annex A to Chapter 2 lists the groupings for the various honours, decorations and medals.  It lists two awards grouped under "Long Service and Good Conduct Medals":
RCMP Long Service Medal
Canadian Forces Decoration

Anyway, FWIW.

:salute:
So, there I was....

Offline Technoviking

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #244 on: May 04, 2011, 15:09:08 »
[pedantic mode on][/pedantic]

 :D


The Game.  You win it!  ;D


So, there I was....

Offline Rheostatic

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #245 on: May 04, 2011, 15:22:14 »
Since I remember well the last time I heard this argument:

From The Canadian Forces’ Decoration, Christopher McCreery
Quote
Order of Precedence
From its inception, it was decided that the CD should take precedence immediately after the RCMP Long Service Medal at the end of the Order of Precedence for orders, decorations and medals. In the Commonwealth, long service awards have historically been ranked at the end of the Order of Precedence, after Coronation and Commemorative Medals and ahead of foreign awards. Long service awards are ranked in order of their creation, the earliest having precedence. For this reason, the RCMP Long Service Medal, created in 1934, ranks ahead of the CD, which was created in 1949, while the various Exemplary Service Medals are placed after the CD.

The CD in Heraldry
Recipients of the Canadian Forces’ Decoration have been permitted to include a representation of their CD insignia as part of their coat of arms. Arms are awarded to Canadian citizens of good standing who petition the Chief Herald of Canada for a grant. In Canada, a grant of arms is
an honour bestowed under the Queen’s royal prerogative. Only duly recognized orders and decorations are traditionally displayed as part of a grant of arms. As the CD is a decoration, it may be appropriately displayed hanging from the rightful recipient’s shield of arms. Clasps to the CD may also be displayed on the ribbon. Recipients of the Efficiency Decoration have also been permitted to include the insignia of that decoration as part of their coat of arms.

According to Captain Carl Gauthier of the Honours and Awards section at DHH, there are 3 main types of national honours: orders, decorations and medals.  Orders and decorations rank higher than medals and bring some specific privileges that do not apply to medals, such as the use of post-nominal letters (OMM, MSM, etc).  In general, orders and decorations are in the shape of a cross or star, while medals are usually round.  Finally, orders, decorations and medals are (generally) worn in that order, from left to right, although there are many exceptions - the CD is one.

"In the old British system," explains Captain Gauthier, "long service awards were divided into two major categories: long service decorations for officers... and long service and good conduct medals for NCMs.  When the CD was created in 1949 to replace all these British awards for Canada's armed services personnel, it was decided that the same award would be used for all services and for all ranks."

According to Capt Gauthier, the decision to make the CD a single decoration for all was made so that officers would not be denied the use of post-nominal letters for a long service award.  As a result, Canadian Forces NCMs became the first in the former British Empire to receive a decoration (and be entitled to post-nominal letters) as a long service award.  "However," clarifies Captain Gauthier, "although it is a decoration, the CD still ranks with the other long service medals in the order of precedence, just like the old British awards did."

So there you have it.  Indeed, a decoration... but ranked with medals!

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #246 on: May 04, 2011, 15:58:53 »
Sometimes the CD doesn't get the respect it deserves.  Twelve years of one's life is no small accomplishment and for some, behaving oneself for 12 years is a HUGE accomplishment. ;D  Despite the fact that one doesn't really have to do anything to receive a CD (other than behave - or at least not get caught for 12 years), it does represent a level of commitment that should be lauded.  Just because someone was never called to task doesn't mean they couldn't have been.

. . . . .

Whenever one of these discussions turns to the CD and the respect it receives or should receive, I am tempted to refer to a post I made a few years ago that aptly illustrates how people perceive this particular award (leaving the argument whether it's a decoration or medal for others).  I'll give into the temptation and repost it here.

One of my lasting memories of someone talking about the decorations and medals that he was wearing occurred in 1994.  I had the good luck of having a COS date out of Lahr that permitted me to arrange my passage home on the Queen Elizabeth 2 sailing out of Southampton on 8 June.  I was able therefore to drive to Normandy and spend 6 June 94 (50th Anniversary of D-Day) visiting some of the memorials and events there; take the ferry across to England; turn my car over to Cunard for loading onto the ship and then relax for several days on the North Atlantic.  The voyage was billed as a “D-Day Memorial” cruise.  Many of the passengers were WW II veterans, mostly American, some Brits, and at least one Canadian.

One of the events that occurred on the ship was the Captain’s Welcome Party.  Dressed in finest bib and tucker, you go through the receiving line, have your photo taken and then proceed to the most important part of the soiree… getting a drink.  Some of the other passengers were wearing medals, ribbons or devices that showed that they had served.  I was in mess kit as were a few of the other passengers including a Van Doo LCol and a husband & wife who were both pilots in the USAF.   It was particularly easy for the Van Doo and me to be noticed in the scarlet monkey jackets. 

A few people had approached me with the inevitable questions about who we were and what were we doing.  I was chatting with a lady when we were approached by a gentleman in a maroon jacket that included Cdn para wings and several medals.  He introduced himself and joined in the conversation which naturally turned to where had you been.  He had served with the 1 Cdn Para Bn as a private during the war and had made the jump into Normandy and over the Rhine. 

The lady with whom we were chatting asked about the medals and wings he and I were wearing.  I probably would have answered in my typically flippant manner about 12 years undetected crime (C.D.), 6 months getting a suntan and not getting a venereal disease (UNEFME) and 4 years wine and beer tasting (SSM with NATO bar), but he replied first by drawing her attention to the one medal we had in common, the Canadian Forces Decoration.  I was surprised when he told her it was the one that he was most proud to wear.  The lady asked why.  His reply impressed me and later that evening I wrote an account of what he said, maybe not verbatim, because we had imbibed several beverages, but close enough for government work.

He said.  “ It’s easy to be a soldier when everyone is or wants to be a soldier; when being in uniform is the normal thing to do.  The true measure of a man is his commitment to serving his country when there is little chance of excitement, or glory or getting medals.  This medal (he indicated his CD) shows people that we pledged a significant portion of our lives to serving our country when few others would, doing things that we didn't necessarily want to do and that were not very glamorous.  These (he indicated his 4 or 5 wartime medals) I got for spending 3 years in uniform doing what most guys my age were doing. Was it hard work and dangerous? Yes. But mostly I had a lot of fun doing it.”

Since then I’ve had a different perspective on those little pieces of ribbon that we wear.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #247 on: May 04, 2011, 19:12:08 »
Great story, Blackadder. Thanks for posting it.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #248 on: May 04, 2011, 22:45:18 »
Yes, Blackadder, a great story.  :nod:
 I'm going to guess you crossed paths (and the Atlantic) with Jan DeV and his wife.


However, I think it's terrific that the Haiti vets have been waiting this long for recognition, and we've so easily sidetracked the thread, robbing them of due fame....again! :nana:

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Re: New Operational Service Medal Announced
« Reply #249 on: May 04, 2011, 22:54:15 »
So just to totally derail it, something I thought appropriate for HALO vets given the connotations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLzWi3S0DD8

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.