Author Topic: Swords  (Read 40297 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,643
Re: Swords
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2007, 08:19:21 »
If you're the RQMS, you want to fine the buggers (aka drunken sots)
Chimo!

Offline Yrys

  • α-γνωστικισμός
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,191
  • You can deprive the body but the soul needs choco!
Re: Swords
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2007, 08:22:59 »
Or you could promote competitions only for the sobber, trying
to get it hip to sword and win event ... so it
will be less attractive to drink and sword...

(civy idea)
Louvre website

"Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind."  Marcel Proust

Offline Pinto

  • New Member
  • **
  • 120
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 25
Re: Swords
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2007, 08:42:35 »
I also know that you can buy from the 2RCR online kit shop. I curious to know if there are any other manufacturers or retailers I can look at, or if anything can be found cheaper, as $800 or 950 euros is a bit more than I'd hoped to spend.

You can also get them at the RMC Club Kit Shop; they also have Air Force, Navy, Artillery and Cavalry Patterns, as well as the basic "Infantry" pattern.

http://www.rmcclub.ca/GiftShop/Swords/Swords.htm

You don't save money over the RCR kit shop; if you are an ex-bud, they match the price, otherwise they charge you $80 more.

Cheers!
Pinto
Army Signals

Offline Al_729

  • Guest
  • *
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14
Re: Swords
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 08:57:39 »
Thanks for the replies.  I suppose I'll have to figure out exactly what kind of sword I have and what the eventual unit I'm posted to allows. Would some of the preceeding links on this thread be the best place to contact regarding the make and style of my sword?

Offline a78jumper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 306
Re: Swords
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2007, 09:10:21 »
I would contact the RMC kitshop for your requirements; as mentioned earlier they have access to all patterns, where as the RCR is only likely to stock the Infantry one. My sword is the Infantry pattern which is pretty well the one in standard ie generic use in the CF. At the time I bought it I had the choice of a Wilkinson @ $1000+ or a Sollingen at about 1/3 the price.  So went with the German model and have been very happy with it. Mainly used to cut wedding cakes these days!
What really got anal was no one could seem to make up their mind what kind of acorn to accessorize it with; RMC was the standard white leather one, then I had a gold braided one put on for some parade with the PPCLI as I recall, then later the Adjt in the Svc Bn insisted I go back to the white acorn as I was going to show up the rest of the officers who were parading with "borrowed" RMC swords, with you guessed it the white acorn. In the process destroyed the $50 braided one removing it. Greatcoats on/greatcoats off LOL
If there is an $80 savings being an ex cadet, get one of us to buy it for you.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 09:19:57 by a78jumper »

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,578
  • Crewman
Re: Swords
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2007, 09:19:02 »
Cavalry units have sabers, Highland units have Claymores & the Arty units have the wire hilt.  Navy swords & Oirforce swords are another thing altogether BUT Infantry pattern swords are, by default, the basic standard for all others....

Hope that the silver finish is in relatively good shape

The old royal cipher will be a conversation piece...

In the Canadian Army, it is a Cavalry Sword.   (Having been "corrected" in the past by old "Horse Soldiers".)   ;D

Al_729

The sword you have will probably pass muster.  As was noted, the most common sword now used by the whole CF is the 1879 Infantry Pattern Officer's Sword.

From A-AD-265-000/AG-001

CHAPTER 1

SWORDS AND PISTOLS - CEREMONIAL OCCASIONS

15.  The following swords are provided for use as required:

     a.  navy officer pattern, for use by navy officers;

     b.  universal pattern (infantry), for use by army members and navy NCM;

     c.  air force pattern, for use by all air force members; and

     d.  flag/general officer's scimitar, issued only for use by the Chief of the Defence Staff.

16.  Approved branch/regimental patterns of swords may be worn as optional items by army members.  Sword belts and slings shall be the CF standard pattern or an approved regimental pattern as an optional item.  The belt shall be fastened by a waist buckle displaying either the CF or, as an optional item, a branch or regimental device.

17.  CF standard pattern sword belts are equipped with slings, metal furnishings and a hook to suspend the scabbard when worn outside of the jacket.  The belt is held in position on army and air force jackets by removable waist hooks inserted into two slots, which are located at the waist line on the jacket side seams (see Figure 3-6-1).  The sword belt is worn under the navy jacket at all times, and may be worn under the army jacket by branches/regiments, in accordance with branch/regimental customs.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2007, 09:38:38 by George Wallace »
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,578
  • Crewman
Re: Swords
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2007, 09:29:15 »
..... In the process destroyed the $50 braided one removing it. Greatcoats on/greatcoats off LOL
......

 ???

What kind of method did you use to attach it?  Should it not have been an easy means of just slipping it through a loop to attach/detach it?  Or was it from the gold braid having a "memory" of being fixed on the sword for so long that the process of removing it cracked the threads?

Just a note to anyone who has a sword:  Never store it for a long period of time inside of the scabbard, or it will collect condensation and rust.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,643
Re: Swords
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2007, 09:30:04 »
If your Great granddad was an Infantry officer, then the chances are .... it is an infantriy pattern sword.

http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/infantrysword.html
Chimo!

Offline niner domestic

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 65
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 530
  • Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat...
Re: Swords
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2007, 10:48:01 »
???
Just a note to anyone who has a sword:  Never store it for a long period of time inside of the scabbard, or it will collect condensation and rust.

You mean like this George?

This is a Wilkinson highland dancing sword, which belonged to my mother and one that I used as a kid to dance with. Sadly it was left in storage for numerous years and this is what happened to it.  I've been looking for a someone to repair it but I loathe to have it ruined so I've been reluctant to send it out.  So if anyone has an experience with a sword maker/refurbisher, let me know.  Thanks
The basis of all morality is duty, a concept with the
same relation to a group that self-interest has to individual. R.A.Heinlein

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: Swords
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2007, 11:01:20 »
I recently found these places that sell replica swords, now, honestly, what are some of your opinions on these? For a quarter of the price of Wilkinsons, I can get a decently made sword for parades... I dont know what do you think?


http://www.thingsmilitary.com/products/1897_Pattern_Infantry_Officer_s_Sword-251-20.html
http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm scroll down a number of other swords and you'll see the 1897
http://www.williamscully.ca/productdetail.php?productid=491071SWINO last but not least the $1000 something dollars one
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق

Offline Yrys

  • α-γνωστικισμός
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 31,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,191
  • You can deprive the body but the soul needs choco!
Re: Swords
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2007, 11:07:42 »
I presume it take more skill to repair one then to make one.

Good luck.
Louvre website

"Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind."  Marcel Proust

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,578
  • Crewman
Re: Swords
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2007, 11:09:04 »
...........  I've been looking for a someone to repair it but I loathe to have it ruined so I've been reluctant to send it out.  So if anyone has an experience with a sword maker/refurbisher, let me know.  Thanks

It can be done, but it is very expensive.  It will depend on the value (not necessarily monetary) that you place on it.  There are people who have the skills to 'replate' it.  Unfortunately I don't know any, but remember someone in the RCD, the 2i/c or Adjt, looking into to it and deciding it was too expensive.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,643
Re: Swords
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2007, 11:24:14 »
http://www.thingsmilitary.com/products/1897_Pattern_Infantry_Officer_s_Sword-251-20.html
http://www.militaryheritage.com/swords2.htm scroll down a number of other swords and you'll see the 1897
http://www.williamscully.ca/productdetail.php?productid=491071SWINO last but not least the $1000 something dollars one
military heritage sword.... not current pattern, won't pass inspection.
Scully sword - always OK, but not always cheapest.
thingsmilitary sword... good price but, the hilt is rather plain and uninteresting...
Chimo!

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: Swords
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2007, 13:48:28 »
Geo, there's the 1897 one the military heritage one, that one wont pass muster? I looked at all of them, but they all look pretty much the same to me  :-\

would the thingsmilitary sword be alright for parade purposes?
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,643
Re: Swords
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2007, 18:49:40 »
Hmmm.... just checked again.... hadn't gone +/- all the way down to the bottom.

I see... was looking at the one at the top 1803 pattern - which is waaay off but

bottom one - 1897 model.... good to go....
Chimo!

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: Swords
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2007, 19:06:06 »
thanks geo :)
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق

Offline N. McKay

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 11,505
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,255
Re: Swords
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2007, 19:08:38 »
I recently found these places that sell replica swords, now, honestly, what are some of your opinions on these? For a quarter of the price of Wilkinsons, I can get a decently made sword for parades... I dont know what do you think?

Hate to say it, but Wilkinson is out of the sword business.

Offline a78jumper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 306
Re: Swords
« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2007, 23:42:45 »
It can be done, but it is very expensive.  It will depend on the value (not necessarily monetary) that you place on it.  There are people who have the skills to 'replate' it.  Unfortunately I don't know any, but remember someone in the RCD, the 2i/c or Adjt, looking into to it and deciding it was too expensive.

I saw "dipped" swords over my years as a QM and they looked like hell. And they were redipped in chrome because of abuse, ie left in scabbard, or someone decided to play pirate after too many beers at the Change of Command Parade. Piss off, if you busted up a C7 or prior FN you' d have been charged.

Offline a78jumper

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 2,065
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 306
Re: Swords
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2007, 23:46:09 »
Hate to say it, but Wilkinson is out of the sword business.

Somehow I am not surprised, $1500 as mentioned prior seemed a lot of money in 1981 given my 2Lt wage upon commisioning was $1635 a month.

Offline Army Outfitters

  • Member
  • ****
  • -40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 108
Re: Swords
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2007, 14:06:18 »
If your Great granddad was an Infantry officer, then the chances are .... it is an infantriy pattern sword.

http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/infantrysword.html
Hmmm, I have heard of these people, they do excellent work, In fact they bought out all the Wilkinson dies and are now producing swords of the Wilkinson pattern with a WKC logo. Oh wait I am the rep for WKC here in Canada that is why I heard of them before. I stock these swords and the sword slings. The RCR buy these from me and so do the RCD's(yes a different pattern) but hey I encourage you to keep looking for swords when they are right here in the proper pattern. But hey what do I know.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,060
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,643
Re: Swords
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2007, 14:26:39 »
Hmmm, I have heard of these people, they do excellent work, In fact they bought out all the Wilkinson dies and are now producing swords of the Wilkinson pattern with a WKC logo. Oh wait I am the rep for WKC here in Canada that is why I heard of them before. I stock these swords and the sword slings. The RCR buy these from me and so do the RCD's(yes a different pattern) but hey I encourage you to keep looking for swords when they are right here in the proper pattern. But hey what do I know.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't force him to drink from your bucket...
Chimo!

Offline Army Outfitters

  • Member
  • ****
  • -40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 108
Re: Swords
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2007, 14:35:08 »
yes I know. I have learned that along time ago but hey if they buy it from the RCR kit shop or whatever they will still be buying it indirectly via me so whatever. Just pointing out a cheaper route that is more direct

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: Swords
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2007, 16:27:16 »
how much are they from you Dave?
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق

Offline Army Outfitters

  • Member
  • ****
  • -40
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 108
Re: Swords
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2007, 17:04:29 »
Infantry pattern are in stock of the Wilkinson pattern made in Germany by WKC. They are $1000 plus tax. They include a scabbard of course. Sharkskin grip with wire wrap. Proper 1897 pattern with the Canadian Coat of Arms.

Offline Breacher41

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 17,601
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,080
  • Per Pietas et Virtus
Re: Swords
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2007, 18:24:56 »
honestly... its just a little pricey for me... unless we can work out a payment plan lol. :D
هناك [هس تو] كنت يستعصي طريق