Author Topic: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy  (Read 161877 times)

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #300 on: February 04, 2019, 12:27:25 »
ASW facility near Norfolk, Virginia--RCN and RCAF?

Quote
US, UK celebrate expanded undersea surveillance capabilities

The US and UK can now benefit from a new state-of-the-art Integrated Undersea Surveillance System operations floor at Naval Ocean Processing Facility (NOPF) Dam Neck, say the US Navy.

The US Navy say that the new operations floor comes equipped with improved surveillance technologies for faster input and analysis of international waters, providing vital information for the United States and the United Kingdom.

“The new operations watch floor is a fantastic addition to our capabilities,” said Cmdr. Aaron Holdaway in a release, commanding officer NOPF Dam Neck.

“This is cutting-edge technology that has been years in the making between the United Kingdom and the United States to develop and to get installed into this building. It comes along with new software, new hardware and new mission capabilities marking a true achievement between our two countries.”

The surveillance team collaborates with the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force to conduct wide area maritime surveillance, providing critical information to both countries [emphasis added].

“The Sailors and Airmen, both US and UK, are what makes NOPF Dam Neck such a formidable asset in the battle for undersea dominance,” said Rear Adm. Paul Halton, OBE, Commander, Maritime Operations Royal Navy...

According to the release:

“The NOPF team works tirelessly, 24/7, 365 days a year, to monitor the ocean night and day in the spirit of the undersea warrior motto, ‘Nyns Us Convya Y’n Downder,’ which translates from Cornish to ‘No Sanctuary in the Deep.’..

The NOPF international team also has direct links to associated surveillance towed array sensor system (SURTASS) ships, gathering long-term acoustic, oceanographic, and hydrographic information.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/us-uk-celebrate-expanded-undersea-surveillance-capabilities/

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #301 on: February 04, 2019, 21:14:13 »
ASW facility near Norfolk, Virginia--RCN and RCAF?

Mark
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According to the article, we didn't pay and didn't want to play.  Is anyone surprised we're not 'part of the team'?   :dunno:

Maybe we've got a few exchange positions (I've no idea, truthfully...) but that isn't really...well, anything, really.
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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #302 on: February 04, 2019, 22:16:25 »
This sort of thing used to be run through Trinity...perhaps after butt-wad committed treason, they deliberately left us out?

Perhaps deservedly so?
Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #303 on: February 04, 2019, 23:40:05 »
We have sailors at the facility in Whidbey Island, WA.


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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #304 on: May 29, 2019, 20:12:41 »
Revived USN Second Fleet ready to go, Russkies much in mind (and parts of Arctic):

Quote
U.S. 2nd Fleet Declares Operational Capability Ahead of Major European Exercise

NAVAL STATION NORFOLK, Va. – A year after it was established, the reborn U.S. 2nd Fleet has reached an initial operational capability ahead of leading a major European exercise next month.

The designation means the command, led by Vice Adm. Andrew “Woody” Lewis, will be able to command and control naval forces on its own, the Navy said.

“U.S. 2nd Fleet exercises operational and administrative authorities over assigned ships, aircraft and landing forces on the East Coast and the North Atlantic. Additionally, it plans and conducts maritime, joint and combined operations as well as trains and recommends certification of combat-ready naval forces for maritime employment and operations around the globe,” reads a statement from 2nd Fleet.
“By focusing on the high-end training and employment of assigned assets, the new 2nd Fleet will be postured to support the employment of forces, whether that is on the western side of the Atlantic, the eastern side of the Atlantic or up into the Arctic,” read a statement from 2nd Fleet.

Announced in May 2018, the new numbered fleet was created as the Russian submarine threat in the Atlantic has grown, with Moscow fielding a new and more capable fleet of attack boats armed with long-range cruise missiles that can threaten mainland Europe [emphasis added--and North America]. The activation of the command followed the declaration of a new era of great power competition by then-Secretary of Defense James Mattis that put Russia and China at the forefront of U.S. planning.

“The North Atlantic has some of the world’s busiest shipping lanes, and with the opening of waterways in the Arctic, this traffic will only grow,” Lewis said in a statement. “This is a fact acknowledged by both our allies and competitors, and as such, it is critically important U.S. 2nd Fleet reinvigorates the way our forces are employed in this influential theater.”

While the boundaries and overlap of responsibility of 2nd Fleet and the Italy-based U.S. 6th Fleet are still in flux, there are indications that 2nd Fleet will command and control forces from Norfolk, past the Greenland-Iceland-U.K. gap and into the Arctic and Barents Seas to support a theater anti-submarine warfare mission [emphasis added].

The declaration comes ahead of next month’s Baltic Operations (BALTOPS) exercise, which will be led by 2nd Fleet and include NATO and other partner nations centered around the Baltic Sea...
https://news.usni.org/2019/05/29/u-s-2nd-fleet-declares-operational-capability-ahead-of-major-european-exercise

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #306 on: July 02, 2019, 16:05:21 »
Fire kills 14 Russian sailors amid submarine speculation
Quote
Fire broke out on one of the Russian navy's deep-sea research submersibles, and toxic fumes from the blaze killed 14 sailors aboard, Russia's Defence Ministry said Tuesday, although it released few details about the disaster or the vessel involved.

The Defence Ministry did not say how many sailors were aboard the vessel during Monday's fire, whether there were any survivors or if it was submerged at the time. But Russian media reported it was the country's most secret submersible, a nuclear-powered vessel designed for sensitive missions at great depths.

President Vladimir Putin, who came under criticism for his handling of the Kursk nuclear submarine disaster in 2000 that killed 118 sailors, cancelled a scheduled appearance and immediately summoned Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu for a briefing on the blaze, which was under investigation.
...

More at link.

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #307 on: July 02, 2019, 23:21:50 »
RIP and prayers for their families.

Offline Ping Monkey

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #308 on: September 24, 2019, 14:32:30 »

Somebody give that walrus a medal!  :salute: 

Walruses Have Attacked And Sunk a Russian Navy Boat in The Arctic

https://www.sciencealert.com/a-walrus-attacked-and-managed-to-sink-a-russian-navy-boat-in-the-arctic

Quote

RYAN PICKRELL, BUSINESS INSIDER

24 SEP 2019

In a kind of odd man-versus-nature moment, a Russian navy boat was attacked and sunk by a walrus during an expedition in the Arctic, the Barents Observer reported Monday.

The Altai, a tugboat of the Russian navy's Northern Fleet, sailed to the Franz Josef Land archipelago in the Arctic carrying researchers from the Russian Geographical Society.

"The polar latitudes are fraught with many dangers," the research group posted in a recent press update.

One of those dangers is apparently walruses, a monstrously large animal that can weigh up to a few thousand pounds and can be quite ferocious when threatened.

To get ashore from the Altai, the researchers and other expedition participants had to rely on smaller landing craft.

During one landing, the "group of researchers had to flee from a female walrus, which, while protecting its cubs, attacked an expedition boat," the Northern Fleet said.

The navy added that "serious troubles were avoided thanks to the clear and well-coordinated actions of the Northern Fleet service members, who were able to take the boat away from the animals without harming them."

The Barents Observer reports that a drone was being operated in close proximity to the walruses. It is unclear if this is what triggered the aggression.

While the Russian military makes no mention of any equipment losses, the Geographical Society had a bit more to say on what happened.

"Walruses attacked the participating boat," the research group explained. "The boat sank, but the tragedy was avoided thanks to the clear actions of the squad leader. All the landing participants safely reached the shore."

This wasn't the Russian navy's first run-in with walruses.

This past May, photos believed to be from 2006 surfaced online of a large walrus napping on top of a Russian submarine.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #309 on: September 25, 2019, 14:24:35 »
Revived USN Second Fleet very serious about North Atlantic, GIUK Gap--along with Royal Navy. Why don't RCN/RCAF say more publicly about ASW there? To my mind again primary mission for our Navy as it was during Cold War. And keep in mind the cruise missile threat from Russkie subs:

Quote
2nd Fleet Leads Naval Forces From Iceland

KEFLAVIK, Iceland (NNS) -- U.S. 2nd Fleet (C2F) has temporarily established an expeditionary Maritime Operations Center (MOC) in Keflavik, Iceland, to provide the U.S. Naval Forces Europe (NAVEUR) commander an additional ability to lead forces from a forward-operating location.

“I welcome C2F back to the European theater for the second time this year,” said Adm. James G. Foggo III, commander, Naval Forces Europe and Africa. “The additive capacity that 2nd Fleet brings to the European theater when operating forward alongside U.S. 6th Fleet (C6F) contributes to the overall success of our naval forces’ ability to address challenges and threats to safety and security in the maritime domain.”

The expeditionary MOC, made up of about 30 members of C2F staff, has the ability to command and control forces, provide basic indicators and warnings for situational awareness, and is able to issue orders while maintaining reach-back capability to C2F’s headquarters in Norfolk, Virginia.

“Iceland is a key ally, and its strategic location in the North Atlantic provides a perfect opportunity to test out our expeditionary MOC for the first time,” said Vice Adm. Andrew Lewis, commander, U.S. 2nd Fleet. “Operating out of Iceland reinforces our partnership while allowing us to practice operating in an expeditionary manner and test our ability to surge forward.”

The C2F expeditionary MOC is executing command and control of ships assigned to the recently deployed Surface Action Group (SAG), which is comprised of the Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60) and the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers USS Lassen (DDG 82), USS Forrest Sherman (DDG 98), and USS Farragut (DDG 99), as well as embarked aircraft from Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron (HSM) 72.

While in the Atlantic, the SAG is operating in support of naval operations to maintain maritime stability and security, deter aggression, and defend U.S., allied, and partner interests.

C2F’s temporary operations out of Keflavik mark the second time the new fleet has operated at a forward location. C2F first demonstrated this expeditionary capability through command and control of exercise Baltic Operations (BALTOPS) in June 2019, when the majority of its staff embarked USS Mount Whitney (LCC 20).

Successful operations in the Arctic require practice, and we will take the lessons learned from this deployment to further refine the expeditionary MOC concept for future operations in the North Atlantic and Arctic regions [emphasis added],” said Capt. Chris Slattery, director, C2F expeditionary MOC.

The expeditionary MOC concept is scalable and temporary in nature. While the C2F expeditionary MOC is currently operating out of Iceland, there is no predetermined or permanent operating location in the European theater.

C2F exercises operational and administrative authorities over assigned ships, aircraft, and landing forces on the East Coast and the Atlantic. When directed, C2F conducts exercises and operations within the U.S. European Command AOR as an expeditionary fleet, providing NAVEUR an additional maneuver arm to operate forces dynamically in theater.

For more information, contact C2F public affairs at ashley.hockycko@navy.mil or mary.c.walsh1@navy.mil.


ATLANTIC OCEAN (Sept. 16, 2019) The Ticonderoga-class guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy (CG 60), front, and the Arleigh Burke-class guided-missile destroyers, USS Farragut (DDG 99), left, USS Forrest Sherman (DDG 98), right, and USS Lassen (DDG 82), back, steam in formation during a photo exercise, Sept. 16, 2019. Normandy is operating in the Atlantic in support of naval operations to maintain maritime stability and security in order to ensure access, deter aggression and defend U.S., allied and partner interests. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Michael H. Lehman/Released)
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110981

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #310 on: September 26, 2019, 12:15:06 »
RCN-led NATO ASW exercise CUTLASS FURY 2019 off our east coast got publicity from,

1) NATO:
https://defpost.com/nato-nations-hone-anti-submarine-warfare-skills-during-exercise-cutlass-fury-2019/

2) USN:
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110966

but as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.

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« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 12:47:58 by MarkOttawa »
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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #311 on: September 26, 2019, 12:53:06 »
USN surface ships returning to Arctic waters off Iceland, back to the GIUK gap:

Quote
Navy warships roaming Arctic waters

Greeted by rough waves, guided-missile cruiser Normandy and the destroyer Farragut nosed inside the Arctic Circle this week, part of an ongoing effort by the Navy to rediscover its sea legs up north, U.S. 2nd Fleet leaders said Wednesday.

Second Fleet commander Vice Adm. Andrew “Woody" Lewis told reporters that the crews of the Virginia-based cruiser and the guided-missile destroyer — which is homeported in balmy Florida — are getting accustomed to sailing seas that often become cold and windswept.

“Successful operations in the Arctic require practice,” he said.

Navy officials declined to pinpoint where in the Arctic his warships are roaming, but 2nd Fleet stood up an expeditionary Maritime Operations Center in Keflavik, Iceland.

Helmed by Capt. Chris Slattery, it’s coordinating the operations of the Normandy and Farragut but guided-missile destroyers Forrest Sherman and Lassen won’t join them above the Arctic Circle.

The four form a Surface Action Group controlled by 2nd Fleet. They were supposed to deploy as part of the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group but the flagship flattop returned to Norfolk last month following reports of electrical glitches.

...to operate in the polar region, sailors and their offices must master navigation, logistics, communications and medical support in cold and austere areas, Slattery said.

The Navy resurrected 2nd Fleet in 2018 to focus more forces on the North Atlantic and portions of the Arctic, what was an underwater thoroughfare for Soviet submarines during the Cold War [emphasis added].

Lewis said Wednesday that the SAG’s deployment has yet to encounter any Russian vessels.

“I’m sure the longer we stay up there the opportunity would increase…but for now the Normandy and Farragut are training,” Slattery added...


The guided-missile cruiser Normandy transited the foggy North Atlantic Ocean on Monday [Sept. 23]. The Ticonderoga-class warship is now operating inside the Arctic Circle. (Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Michael H. Lehman/Navy)
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/09/25/navy-warships-roaming-arctic-waters/

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #312 on: September 26, 2019, 13:36:31 »
RCN-led NATO ASW exercise CUTLASS FURY 2019 off our east coast got publicity from,

1) NATO:
https://defpost.com/nato-nations-hone-anti-submarine-warfare-skills-during-exercise-cutlass-fury-2019/

2) USN:
https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=110966

but as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.

Mark
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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #313 on: September 26, 2019, 15:09:30 »
kratz: Thanks--but nothing at RCN or CAF/DND websites. Still odd.

Mark
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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #314 on: September 26, 2019, 15:11:13 »
… as far as I can see nothing from RCN. Odd.
A lack of news releases may be the Caretaker Convention in play during the election campaign period - although I note some mentions/posts on the ex on the Navy's FB feed.  Same with info still streaming out on Op UNIFIER via their FB feed.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 20:06:04 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #316 on: October 10, 2019, 20:42:33 »
Article Link

New Russian Attack Sub Enters Sea Trials

The first of six diesel-electric attack subs destined for Russia’s Pacific Fleet has entered state trials, according to a source.

The first improved Project 636.3 Kilo-class (aka Vashavyanka-class) diesel-electric attack submarine (SSK), the Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, destined for service in Russia’s Pacific Fleet, has reportedly entered state trials earlier this month, according to a source in the Russian defense industry.

“The Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky will today sail to the Gulf of Finland for the first stage of state trials,” the source was quoted as saying by TASS news agency on October 2. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) has not officially confirmed the information.

The Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky was officially launched on March 28 of this year.

“A contract for the construction of submarines for the Pacific Fleet was signed in September 2016 at the Army forum,” the head of Admiralty shipyard, Alexander Buzakov, was quoted as saying during the launch ceremony. “In 2019, the submarine will be delivered to the Pacific Fleet.”

However, according to a 2018 report by the Admiralty shipyard in Saint Petersburg the delivery date of the first SSK has been pushed back to November 2020. The first two Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs—the Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky and the Volkhov—are expected to join the Pacific Fleet in 2020 and 2021 respectively.

All six SSKs destined for service in the Pacific Fleet are slated to be delivered to the Russian Navy by the end of 2025. Russian Navy Deputy Commander-in-Chief Igor Mukhametshin stated at the March 28 ceremony: “I am confident that we will complete this series by 2025 and all the submarines will arrive at their permanent bases by that time.”

The improved Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs—dubbed “Black Holes” by the U.S. Navy—are extremely quiet, as I explained previously:

“The Project 636.3 Kilo-class is an improved variant of the original Project 877 Kilo-class design. The updated version is slightly longer in length — the sub’s submerged displacement is around 4,000 tons — and feature improved engines, an improved combat system, as well as new noise reduction technology.”

Additionally, I noted:

“ The submarine has a crew of around 50 and can conduct patrols for up to 45 days. The improved Kilo-class can fire both torpedoes and cruise missiles, launched from one of six 533-millimeter torpedo tubes.  The submarine has primarily been designed for anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare. However, it can also attack land targets.  ”

Project 636.3 Kilo-class SSKs reportedly boast a special anechoic coating applied on the outer hull surface to reduce noise emanating from its interior.

Also, the SSKs main propulsion plant is isolated on a rubber base in order to prevent vibrations. Notably, the SSK class does not feature an air-independent propulsion system, which reduces the submarine’s overall stealth capabilities.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #317 on: October 31, 2019, 18:44:01 »
Article Link

Russian subs honing stealth skills in major North Atlantic drill, says Norwegian intel


October 29, 2019 

The aim of the massive operation is to get as far out to the North Atlantic as possible without being discovered by NATO, the intelligence service informs to NRK. Such maneuvers haven’t been seen from the Northern Fleet since the days of the Cold War.

The operation started early last week, before Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Commander of the Northern Fleet, Vice-Admiral Aleksandr Moiseyev visited Kirkenes in northern Norway last Friday.

Lavrov had bilateral talks with his Norwegian counterpart Ine Eriksen Søreide and the two said at the following press conference that security situation in northern Europe was one talking point.

On Saturday, the Barents Observer reported about two of the Sierra-class submarines of the Northern Fleet sailing towards the Norwegian Sea for deep-sea dive tests and weapon tests. The two submarines are the «Pskov» and «Nizhny Novgorod», both built with a titanium-hull.

Eight of the ten submarines now at sea are nuclear-powered, the intelligence service says to NRK.

The intelligence service claim to have «a decent control» over where the submarines are in the sea.
•Two nuclear submarines are west of the Bear Island, between Svalbard and Finnmark, the northernmost part of mainland Norway.
•Two submarines are south and east of the Bear Island, guarding the entrance to the eastern part of the Barents Sea.
•Two Sierra-class nuclear submarines are training in the northern part of the Norwegian Sea.

Normally, the ballistic missile submarines are patrolling the eastern Barents Sea or under the ice-cap in the Arctic.

It is known that the Delta-IV class sub «Karelia» on October 17th launched a ballistic missile from the Barents Sea as part of the annual large-scale strategic missile drill, as reported by the Barents Observer.

NRK reports that the operation is supposed to last for 60 days. If so, the submarines will be back in port before New Years celebrations and the Russian Orthodox Christmas.

The Norwegian intelligence service informs to NRK that Russia with the operation is aimed at showing the United States that the country is able to threaten the east coast by protecting the bastion in such a way that the ballistic missile submarines can launch nukes targeted at the USA.

Russia wants to test NATO’s ability to discover and handle such operation, the intelligence service tells NRK.

 :pop:
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #318 on: October 31, 2019, 19:13:34 »
More on Russian North Atlantic sub surge:

Quote
Quote
Russia Sends Ten Subs Into North Atlantic In Drill Unprecedented In Size Since Cold War
It's thought that one of Russia's objectives for the drills is to signal to the U.S. it can operate where it needs to, when it needs to, and in force.


...
After decades of atrophy, the U.S. and its allies are slowly rebuilding their anti-submarine warfare capabilities in and around the GIUK Gap. Most notably, the US Navy has bolstered its detachment of P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft that operate out of Iceland. The US Navy has also reactivated the 2nd Fleet and has greatly increased patrols and exercises in the North Atlantic...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30728/russia-sends-ten-subs-into-north-atlantic-in-drill-unprecedented-in-size-since-cold-war

So how come the RCN says almost nothing publicly about the Russian sub (including with cruise missiles) resurgence in the North Atlantic, when during the cold war this region was the focus of the RCN's efforts? And especially when the USN, the Brits and the Norwegians have for some time made a lot of public noise about the matter.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/30728/russia-sends-ten-subs-into-north-atlantic-in-drill-unprecedented-in-size-since-cold-war

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #319 on: October 31, 2019, 19:16:55 »
Maybe they have a "Red October" on their hands??



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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #320 on: October 31, 2019, 20:44:32 »
Maybe the RCN hasn't said anything because they haven't been all that involved in tracking sub-surface contacts "up there" in recent years... :whistle:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11283926/Britain-forced-to-ask-Nato-to-track-Russian-submarine-in-Scottish-waters.html

Maritime patrol aircraft from France, America and Canada flew to Scotland to join Royal Navy warships hunting for the suspected submarine after it was spotted at sea, west of Scotland

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/royal-navy-relied-on-nato-to-protect-british-waters-20-times-in-2015-a6870686.html

The US deployed 11 maritime patrol aircraft in 2015, while other NATO allies, including Canada, France and Germany, had deployed 10 aircraft between them.

I'm grateful the RAF was MPA-less, personally.  I love Scotland...and Norway and Iceland! 

Another asset to be added to the hunts:  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-50233941?fbclid=IwAR2vQTIPOojIsbQOHGeSUEJQSat8O0g0Xd0zT5Hm2OSTcwsXSKgojZGXsto

* the RFN SSN in the pic above is looking in rough shape...that's good for NATO.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 21:10:55 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #321 on: November 01, 2019, 12:57:00 »
yea, just a few tiles missing. I bet they don't go as deep as they could back in the day.

You might want to check out these photo's as well https://www.facebook.com/Military9Army/photos/a.758412211030148/758412987696737/?type=3&theater

Offline CBH99

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #322 on: November 02, 2019, 02:20:47 »
With a hull looking that jagged & uneven, must not be the quietest thing in the water by a long shot...?


Might still be tricky to find if it's "somewhere" in the Atlantic.  But with a reasonable idea of where it could be, can't imagine it would be all that stealthy looking like that
Fortune Favours the Bold...and the Smart.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: The Russian Military Merged Thread- Navy
« Reply #323 on: November 02, 2019, 08:37:08 »
Missing tiles could result in more flow noise, and tiles can be used to keep noise from leaving the hull into the water mass as well so...could increase prob of detection.  Acoustics isn't my SME area, I am more of an...apprentice.

"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.