Author Topic: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech  (Read 56666 times)

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Offline airforce_fella

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Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« on: January 11, 2008, 15:37:42 »
Are AVN/AVS Tech as hard to get into as people say they are?

Are the majority of these two trades posting to Cold Lake?

Offline mr peabody

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2008, 00:32:17 »
Do you mean basic aptitude requirements or space availability? 

Both trades need people.

The majority of the two trades are not in Cold Lake, but it seems that many of the new bodies are being posted up that way.  Cold Lake always seems to need people.
" Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't. "

Offline airforce_fella

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2008, 08:37:18 »
When I say hard to get into, I mean in terms of competitivness.

Just curious because I where the Air Force uniform now, put in a purple trade.  To be honest I wear the air uniform but been with the Army for 8 years.

I heard AVN/AVS was hurting for bodies.  And the trades sounds like a good go.  Im just trying to learn as much as I can about it.  Any links/info anyone has aside from the recruiting site, I'd greatly appreciate

Offline mr peabody

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2008, 14:37:52 »
Hey there, sorry for the slow reply, I'm in NS on a course right now.

I can't provide hard numbers with regards to competitiveness and number of slots, but AVS/AVN both need people.  We've got a lot of new people coming through now, but we'll be losing a ton of people in the next 5 to 10 years the way things are going.

You'd be hard pressed to find a better resource for information than this website, if there are any specific questions you'd like to ask feel free to PM me and I'll get you an answer if I can.  Otherwise, just dig around on here, you'll get a good picture of what the trades are like.

" Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't. "

Offline Northernguardian

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2008, 20:06:52 »
There are two recruiting streams for AVS right now. One generates a full blown avionics specialist (like we always did until relatively recently) that has in depth knowledge of electronics, and can interpret schematics, circuits, etc.

The other stream produces inferior techs who are trained for the "first-to-third line" maintenance concept. They receive a lot less training in theory. We old guys refer to these techs as "box changers." They are lost when it comes to the deeper theory traditionally associated with AVS, like circuit analysis. They can't be loaded on 2nd line courses as they lack the knowledge for them. I have heard that some of these techs felt cheated when they realized they were not the same standard as other AVS techs. No surprise there.

 I believe the CF is making a huge mistake doing this sort of thing, as these folks cannot be employed in labs, and have difficulty understanding theory on some first line courses. Their limited understanding of avionics theory jeopardizes their ability to troubleshoot aircraft. That we have a two-tier structure within a military occupation should raise concerns, as every trade should have a common standard. 

If you want to go AVS, make sure you know what stream you are getting into.

Offline Sparkplugs

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2008, 11:21:15 »
AVN's are also hurting for people, but be prepared for some major crowding in Borden for your training.  There are more than 270 AVN techs training in Borden right now...  That's not counting all the AVS, either.  It's nuts.  Hurry up and wait is the name of the game here.  Of the last 3 classes to get their postings, 32 people are going to Cold Lake, it's an average of 10 people per class.  If it's a french class, it's been 10 people per class in Bagotville.  Those places are supremely short right now.  As far as AVN goes, you still have to meet a fairly high standard on the CFAT test, and the course, while not extremely hard, is challenging enough that we have lost 4 people to failures.  You'll have to be prepared to study in crappy conditions.  There's not a lot of room here, so it's only if you're very lucky that you'll be living in a mod.  Most living quarters here are 4 per room for the guys, 2 per room for the girls.  PMQ's, you can only get if you are married or already commonlaw, and there aren't many of them.  We had plenty of people turned down just because there weren't enough Q's for students.

If you need to know anything about AVN stuff currently going on in Borden, let me know, I'll do my best to help you out.  I'm here until March, anyway. 
pilot:  Number 3 engine missing.
tech: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

pilot: Aircraft handles funny.
tech: Aircraft told to straighten up, fly right and be serious

Offline CDNAIRFORCE

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2008, 11:41:27 »

             Northern Guardian, being that I am currently undergoing QL3 AVS training (not in Borden) I am curious about these two "recruiting streams" you speak of. Can you elaborate what they are? When I joined the CF two years ago yesterday, plus listening to co-workers recruiting stories, we were told we were joining as an AVS tech and that was that. We knew we would not be working in specific streams the way the old trade was broken down. (IS, IE, Radar, etc) Are you referring perhaps to the two different types of AVS courses currently running? (The 10 month pilot in Borden and the 5 month Legacy course run at NSCC's Aviation Institute in Shearwater which is the English version of the current French AVS QL3 being run in Borden)

            Thanks for piquing my curiosity!

Offline Pistos

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2008, 15:38:11 »
This seems like a good place to sneak in a couple of trade questions, since Sparkplug either doesn't check her email or, more likely, is ignoring me :P

I'm planning on joining your club as soon as my affairs are in order. On January 7th I completed the CFAT and chatted with a recruiting officer.  I've been given an unofficial "You're what we want" from the Halifax CFRC, but since I can't be available until September my file will be closed until August when I finish the process with the interview and medical.  Apparently I scored well and qualified for any NCM trade; of the ones currently in demand AVN Tech appeals to me the most. 

Now, at age 35 I've been out of school for a couple of years - are there any areas that I should brush up on?  In particular, what level of math will I be expected to know?  I spent a week or two relearning it up to about a grade 6 level for the CFAT and that worked out perfectly but I fear this will be grossly inadequate at Borden. I do, however, have several months in which to get my mind into shape (even as I struggle to do the same with the body).  Direct me.


Offline CDNAIRFORCE

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2008, 20:43:33 »

          Are you joining as an AVN or AVS tech? The amount of math is similar but probably slightly more demanding for AVS (my trade) When I was in high school and had no idea what to do with my life I took math courses that would lead into first year calculus, a course which I did not last very long in.  ;D Five years later I was beginning my POET training and had forgotten virtually EVERYTHING. I could not even help my brother who was taking the same stuff in school. To make a story short, any math you needed to know the instructors will teach you or briefly review on if it is basic. In POET they gave us a review on how to add and subtract. The reason they get into the factoring of algebraic equations is so you learn to manipulate formulas rather than trying to memorizing three different variants of 15 formulas. AVS you need to know the basics of trigonometry as well for when you get into vectors and sine waves in POET. Not too sure about the AVN side, but I am sure the math required in that trade is about the same.
         That said, any extra knowledge is usually a good thing. There are several books at Chapters or even your library that can touch on many topics covered in general high school math.

Offline mr peabody

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2008, 11:23:29 »
Pistos,

It looks like you're going AVN from your post; if that's the case, don't sweat the math.  The only math we use is simple stuff, you'll do a bit of formula manipulation for your electrical training... but it's very basic.  The instructors generally move at a slow pace, especially during your early training, they are there to help you. 

I've been out of Borden far too long to speak for current conditions there, but feel free to PM me for any questions about the trade you may have and I'll pass along whatever I can.  I'm in Greenwood on course right now, so it will likely be a day or so before I get back to you. 
" Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't. "

belka

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2008, 19:02:37 »
The only thing you have to worry about during your time in Borden for AVN training is learning to memorize lines of text. More often then not, tests required you to give answers that were word-for-word out of the book. I was very disappointed that the tests didn't ask more questions about how the system works or how components work with each other. As stated, Borden is a zoo right now and the sooner you realize that it's just a game, the quicker your time will pass. Test scores don't matter, everyone is treated the same when they get to the sqn, whether you scored a 98% on the course or a 71%.

Good luck!

Offline Pistos

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 22:16:54 »
Thanks all for the responses!  cp140tech, I'm sure there'll be a few PM's incoming as questions come up - thank you for the offer.

I'll keep picking away on math.com (tremendous site!) and playing Brain Age but I won't bother with the calculus tutor ;) 

Between selling / dissolving my business, trying to bring our house up to a salable condition, and working this 'office chair physique' into something more suitable for my new environment, I'm somewhat relieved to know that I needn't attend night classes in my spare time.

As a side note, for Christmas my wife gave me a Nintendo DS - wonderful little toy.  With it I received a vision trainer and no less than 4 Brain Age type programs.  I'm know I'm getting up there in years but I didn't think she had cause just yet to worry about me going blind and senile  ;D

Cheers


Offline lateralus

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 14:04:29 »
Is there anyone here that is currently on the AVN tech course in borden or has just finished it?  I've heard how that course has been revamped so many times and how many are questioning how well this course has been taught/presented. I understand that it's just over a year now as opposed to the 18 months it used to be.  Also, it seems like most people are heading to cold lake or bagotville after the course. The thought of going there is somewhat of a turn off just from the posts i've read. I feel a little indifferent now about this trade now that i've done some reading in this forum. Seems like many folks aren't very satisfied with this course or trade. Can anyone offer some opinions, advice, or info?

belka

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 15:27:45 »
Is there anyone here that is currently on the AVN tech course in borden or has just finished it?  I've heard how that course has been revamped so many times and how many are questioning how well this course has been taught/presented. I understand that it's just over a year now as opposed to the 18 months it used to be.  Also, it seems like most people are heading to cold lake or bagotville after the course. The thought of going there is somewhat of a turn off just from the posts i've read. I feel a little indifferent now about this trade now that i've done some reading in this forum. Seems like many folks aren't very satisfied with this course or trade. Can anyone offer some opinions, advice, or info?

The course, IMO is too long. It should be no more than 6 months consisting of common core, and the aircraft basics (engines, electronics, flight controls, etc). Why does a student who is getting posted to a trash hauler wing need to learn about ejection seats for 4 weeks is beyond me. I learned more on my QL5's, which was less than 3 months,  then I did spending 18 months in Borden. I wasn't satisfied with the course in Borden, if I would've done it all over again, I would have gone to a civy college and enrolled after. The trade itself and working in a Squadron, is alot more satisfying, anyone can tell you that.

Offline lateralus

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 17:00:57 »
thanks ninja...good to know. I guess it's just having to put up with that year in borden.  You in cold lake?

belka

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2008, 01:37:47 »
Unfortunately.  ;)

Offline lateralus

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2008, 10:30:17 »
You in cold lake ninja? If so, how is it?

Offline Oz_441

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2008, 14:28:18 »
lateralus, I finished the course 6 months ago now. But I didnt find my Borden experience too bad and now that I look back it was a pretty good time.
In my limited time in Greenwood I love the trade and have no regrets about going AVN. Everybody complains about there job but in the big picture this is a pretty sweet gig.
 
Oz_441 is saving the world one costal patrol aircraft at a time.

Offline lateralus

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2008, 17:32:08 »
Thanks for your insight PteOsborne.  :)

Offline Oz_441

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2008, 15:45:47 »
No problem man, anytime.  :salute:
Oz_441 is saving the world one costal patrol aircraft at a time.

Offline kwright15

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2008, 20:18:03 »
Is there any chance of getting posted in Trenton?

aesop081

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2008, 20:22:42 »
Is there any chance of getting posted in Trenton?

Just as good a chance as going to Cold lake, Greenwood, Shearwater, Comox, Bagottville, Winnipeg..........

Offline CDNAIRFORCE

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Re: Questions about AVN/AVS Tech
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2008, 20:28:16 »
    In a word, yes. Just like there is a chance of going to Comox, Cold Lake, Shearwater, Moose Jaw, Winnipeg. See where I am going with this? And from my experience nine times out of ten people from Ontario (especially Toronto) will put Trenton as a first preference. Bottom line, you go where the CF requires you to go at that particular moment. As a courtesy, they ASK you your preferences, but there is no guarantee you will go there. And don't let the whole story about the person with top marks always getting first pick. I know people on courses where the top student did not get any of their three preferences. It is always good to research with your spouse the places that they have a possibility of getting posted to. I am amazed at how many people join up and it is not until after starting their courses that they discover the "existence" of places such as Cold Lake.

Offline Rye719

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AVN Tech Questions
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2008, 19:29:34 »
Hey Guys...

    I have a couple questions about the AVN Tech World.  
Im currently in the military but looking to O.T in a year or two, I just have to finsih up few things in my army career before I make the switch to the blue side of community.  

My first question is that Im very interested in becoming a AVN Tech and Im aware that it is low on numbers rigth now,  Will it still be looking for alot of people in year and a half from now once my commitments are fullfilled in the army.    Or Should I jump the gun and move now!!!!

My second question is where is the  most likly place to get posted once i graduate from borden?   The Wife and I arn't to keen on Cold Lake,  But we'd stick it out of we had to.  Also do you guys get moved around every few years?   If so are thoes moves mandatory or is it prefrence based?

Thank you for any help you can offer
-Ryan

aesop081

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Re: AVN Tech Questions
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2008, 19:32:42 »
 

My first question is that Im very interested in becoming a AVN Tech and Im aware that it is low on numbers rigth now,  Will it still be looking for alot of people in year and a half from now once my commitments are fullfilled in the army.    Or Should I jump the gun and move now!!!!

Trade is always going to be short from what i can see.

Quote
  If so are thoes moves mandatory or is it prefrence based?


If you are already in the military, you should know how that works.