Author Topic: Advice for the ANav Test  (Read 18404 times)

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Offline Elwood

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Advice for the ANav Test
« on: March 06, 2008, 14:12:55 »
You might want to have a peek at the book called “The Myth of Ability” by John Mighton. House of Anasi Press Inc, 2003. It’s short… only 208 pages.

I picked it up out of the blue at Chapters, and I would really recommend it to anyone about to write the ANav test who doesn’t feel very confident in their mental math abilities.

The book is really aimed at educators across Canada, but it’s also good for anyone who has struggled in math at school. Even though I passed my first try at the ANav test, I really wish I read this book before ACS so I could’ve done better on the math-side of things.

Anyways, I don't want to look like I'm selling anything, but if you're interested in Math, or in passing the ANav side of ACS, this is a good read.

Offline Fireball

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2008, 12:09:21 »
All,

I have a comment + a question.

Comment: During Aircrew selection at Trenton it seems as though folks who pass both the Air Nav and Pilot are often awarded an Air Nav position vs thier first choice as Pilot.

Question: Would it be good judgement to purposely "fail" the Airnav in hopes that Pilot becomes the only option to you?  My logic is such, if you are a stellar pilot AND pass the AirNav with flying colours that the path of least resistance would be AirNav (from DNDs point of view) and be awarded as such.  However, if you fail the AirNav and pass the pilot test with flying colours then that the only course of action for DND would be to award Pilot.

Does this make any sense?

CPL Jay

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2008, 12:42:28 »
Question: Would it be good judgement to purposely "fail" the Airnav in hopes that Pilot becomes the only option to you? 

I have one word for you:  Unethical.  You figure it out.
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
~ Lao Tzu~

Offline Chet

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2008, 12:44:24 »
I wont have any trouble failing the airnav test.  :P 

Offline Fireball

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2008, 12:48:17 »
Thanks guys,

It's an honest question.  I always strive to do my best at everything.  I just had logic getting mixed up in my head.  I'd be the last person to try something unethical.

Thanks,
CPL Jay

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2008, 13:00:58 »
Then why did you ask?   ;D
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Fireball

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2008, 13:08:02 »
Why did I ask?  It's a thought that popped into my head.  I'd rather straighten myself out here rather than do something stupid during the testing phase should I make it that far.  This forum is by far the best resource on the Armed Forces I have ever seen - and I was in the Forces for 4 years!

CPL Jay

Offline benny88

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2008, 13:23:07 »
Why did I ask?  It's a thought that popped into my head.  I'd rather straighten myself out here rather than do something stupid during the testing phase should I make it that far.  This forum is by far the best resource on the Armed Forces I have ever seen - and I was in the Forces for 4 years!

CPL Jay

  If all you want is pilot, JUST put pilot on your application. That's what I did, passed for both trades at ASC, but was offered pilot. But I have heard of them offering people who failed for pilot an ANav slot, which is a nice backup, I'd rather be an navigator in the CF than not in the CF.
The people trying to make this world worse, are not taking a day off.

Offline zorro

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2008, 13:39:55 »
  If all you want is pilot, JUST put pilot on your application. That's what I did, passed for both trades at ASC, but was offered pilot. But I have heard of them offering people who failed for pilot an ANav slot, which is a nice backup, I'd rather be an navigator in the CF than not in the CF.

haha sure yah would benny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

Offline Hippie

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2008, 14:06:07 »
All,

I have a comment + a question.

Comment: During Aircrew selection at Trenton it seems as though folks who pass both the Air Nav and Pilot are often awarded an Air Nav position vs thier first choice as Pilot.

Question: Would it be good judgement to purposely "fail" the Airnav in hopes that Pilot becomes the only option to you?  My logic is such, if you are a stellar pilot AND pass the AirNav with flying colours that the path of least resistance would be AirNav (from DNDs point of view) and be awarded as such.  However, if you fail the AirNav and pass the pilot test with flying colours then that the only course of action for DND would be to award Pilot.

Does this make any sense?

CPL Jay

The way I understand it, and the way it was portrayed to be at ACS (bear in mind this was 2003), was that one test had zero bearing on the other.  Plain and simple.  I passed for pilot and failed for Nav.

That being said, I was under zero pressure when I did these tests as I was told I didn't even have to be there and that CFRC Vancouver sent me there in error.  I was the first guy to get accepted under CEOTP and was an Aviation College grad, so there was no requirement for me to go thru the aptitude portion of ACS. 

Note to all, the sim will freeze if you try to loop it.   ;D

Offline Chet

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2008, 21:52:29 »
Well, i passed the AirNav test...... Damn lol

Offline Elwood

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2008, 23:27:52 »
With the people I did ACS with, I found it true that if you pass the ANav test and the pilot sim, there's more chance of being offered ANav. One girl passed for pilot and failed the ANav exam, and had no trouble getting an offer for pilot after ACS. The other three applicants who passed ACS passed for both pilot and ANav, but none of our first offers were for pilot.

The point is, if you want pilot, list pilot as your only choice when you apply.

You won't get any brownie points on your chance at a pilot slot if you pass the ANav portion. Plain and simple.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2008, 12:32:21 »
PMed, explain to me how it is unethical if you DONT want to be airnav?

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2008, 13:16:59 »
I believe it is unethical to deliberately fail any test, course, etc.  As I highlighted in my original post.

For instance, I wanted out of the Med A trade long before I remustered to PMed Tech.  At the time, the Med A trade was closed to remuster out except to the "feeder" trades;  PMed, X-Ray, Lab, etc.  I went on my Med A QL5 course and somebody mentioned to me that if I failed the course, I would be "administratively" remustered.  Of course, when that happens, you don't normally get a choice (or if you do, it's a small one) of what trade you want to go and there is always the stigma of having the course report that says "Fail" not to mention, being RTU'd to your unit.  That being said, I, personally, was not able to do that sort of thing anyway.  My believe is if that you choose to do something, you do it to the best of your ability.

In the long run, it worked out for me as I thoroughly enjoy the PMed trade and find it is much more suited to my abilities than Med A.

As the others have said, if you don't want to go AirNav, don't put it as one of your choices.

IMHO, failing a test on purpose to get a trade you want, is no different than cheating on a test to get the trade you want.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 20:46:54 by PMedMoe »
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2008, 20:45:30 »
2 ideas.

1.  Integrity.

2.  OLQs (Officer Like Qualities)

think about it.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline GnrJetTech

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2008, 21:00:50 »
IMHO. I think you would be dam lucky to get either, and if you happen to get nav (2nd choice) then deal with it
you can always try for pilot later on again.

Hope that didn't sound nasty. anyways...I tried out in Trenton about 14yrs ago with a class of 75.

I have my private license, and consider myself a pretty good pilot. But that sim has nowhere near the same input
reaction of a real aircraft (sim is way more sensitive ti inputs, especially rudder i found).

For the test you have to do 3 cct patterns w/ 3 landings/take-offs.
I did it.   Duno what went wrong.

In the end 1 got pilot, 2 got nav out of 75...whoe

And the one nav was already a captain nav on aurora's...lmao

now just fix em. 

Good luck to all, and be happy if you make it. :)
Once a Gunner, Always a Gunner.

Offline Elwood

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 12:35:03 »
Wow, 75 people being tested at the same time... that must have taken forever to get them all through the sims!

Offline GnrJetTech

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 17:15:22 »
3 days..we each got 1/2 hr per day ( 2 learning and 1 test)On a 12 hr schedule ( if i remember correctly)  Then we all wrote the nav test.

But...I didn't make the cut. *sigh*



Once a Gunner, Always a Gunner.

Offline BobSlob

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2008, 09:47:12 »
Atleast you got to go =D

I was only qualified for ANAV and wrote the exam at my local CFRC. They then flew me up to DRDC Toronto and I whipped through the medical in about 2 hours =D
Currently merit listed, hopefully I get my offer soon, I know the spots were limited.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2008, 15:18:03 »
IMHO. I think you would be dam lucky to get either, and if you happen to get nav (2nd choice) then deal with it
you can always try for pilot later on again.

Hope that didn't sound nasty. anyways...I tried out in Trenton about 14yrs ago with a class of 75.

I have my private license, and consider myself a pretty good pilot. But that sim has nowhere near the same input
reaction of a real aircraft (sim is way more sensitive ti inputs, especially rudder i found).

For the test you have to do 3 cct patterns w/ 3 landings/take-offs.
I did it.   Duno what went wrong.

In the end 1 got pilot, 2 got nav out of 75...whoe

And the one nav was already a captain nav on aurora's...lmao

now just fix em. 

Good luck to all, and be happy if you make it. :)


Was the sim 14 years ago the same as today's?  I don't think it is...

Max

Offline Chet

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2008, 17:27:05 »
Nope, the new CAPSS Sim came to be in 1997 i think.


Offline Gazoo

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 18:15:42 »
I know the title to this post is 'anav test' since the last couple of replies referenced the sim thought I'd throw in my experience.  It was soooooo long ago, that I'm not sure if computers were around yet.  In 1978 I went to ASC and was tested for Pilot and ANAV.  I didn't pass ANAV but did Pilot.  The sim at the time was a fiberglass and wood plane(on some kind of pivot) that you had to sit in and control.  I guess I did OK.  Unfortunately I didn't make it all the way through Pilot training in 79 and became an AEC.
Five years ago I was posted to recruiting and since I was going to be administering the tests, I had to take them first.  Well, I scored very high on the Nav test, more than what I would have needed to qualify as a Nav.  What does that mean?  I don't think I am any smarter, but I had no pressure to pass the test because I already had the job.
So my best advice for taking the Nav test is to relax, get lots of sleep the night before and try to imagine that the results don't matter.  Then again, I have probably strayed from the original question haven't I ?
It really sucks getting old.

Offline Elwood

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2008, 00:01:26 »
You're right Gazoo, relaxing during the test is a huge factor in doing well. It definitely tests your patience, concentration and ability to stay cool under pressure. If you're worried about passing the test the whole time rather than focusing on the questions, then there's a good chance you'll do poorly.

Offline BobSlob

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2008, 10:50:14 »
Having recently wrote and passed the test (BMOQ in August woot woot!) I can only offer this;

Grade 12 math is a must, I was an excellent student in Math, and had trouble. Not because the questions were hard, simply because I couldn't remeber the formulas. Given more time to think, it would have been easy. The real pressure is the time.

Two more pieces of advice I was given... from recruiting themselves.
A) Learn base 60... ie. adding/subtracting latitude and longitude.
B) Basic flight instruments, learn to read and understand them.

Good luck to all... just don't take my spot on a Sea King! =D

Offline Grando

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Re: Advice for the ANav Test
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2008, 19:07:43 »
Also, actually doing all the math to get a specific answer isn't very time effective.