Author Topic: Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)  (Read 113007 times)

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Offline Habitant

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Paying Compliments (Saluting, Verbal Address)
« on: May 28, 2003, 21:06:00 »
Can anybody explain saluting to me?

How? When? Who to Who? Under what circumstance? Finally, why?

I know this might be an easy question, but I searched the forum and it isn‘t already answered.

I am to be sworn in tomorrow as a 2Lt. and am a but nervous about the whole thing!

Thanks!
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Offline Gunnar

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2003, 21:40:00 »
I can tell you why.  Because the salute originated as the gesture for opening the face plate of a medieval helm so your commander could see your face.  I‘ll leave the how to the experts.  But I believe in the CF, not indoors, and not when not wearing headdress.
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Offline Marti

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2003, 00:20:00 »
i remember reading that it was good form for an officer to return a salute with something like ‘good evening‘ rather than a ‘thank you‘. something to keep in mind, but in the grand scheme it probably doesn‘t make much of a difference.

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2003, 00:39:00 »
We just had a huge discussion of this not to long ago on this very forum.
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Offline Sundborg

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2003, 01:23:00 »
basically if an NCO greets you or walks past you outside, they must salute you, and you can return the favour; that is, if the NCO is in uniform.  If you are not wearing a head dress, then you do not salute back.  No saluting is done in doors, unless, correct me if I‘m wrong, an NCO is reporting to an officer, or an officer is reporting to one of higher rank.  Saluting is basically showing respect to the officer and the queen.  Saluting is also done during any country‘s colours.  There are other reasons too, but I can‘t think of them at the moment, but that is basically the scoop.
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Offline ~RoKo~

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2003, 01:37:00 »
You do salute indoors. At my armouries, there are certain hallways where you must salute any officers when you‘re comming to work, and when you‘re leaving for home.

Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2003, 11:15:00 »
The thing to remember is that you are saluting the Queen (i.e. the "commission") therefore if the officer hasn‘t been commissioned, then coming to attention will suffice as paying respects to that officer.  Here at CTC gagetown, it‘s rare that we salute anything that is an Ocdt. or 2Lt.

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shaunlin41

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2003, 18:37:00 »
Saluting indoors totally depends on the unit.
In LFCA TC Meaford saluting is done indoors unless it is a designated no saluting zone i.e the mess.  If  no headdress coming to attention will due.  This is a question you will have to ask the unit where you are posted.

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2003, 18:39:00 »
And if you do it wrong, some people won‘t hesitate to let you know..  ;)

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2003, 15:40:00 »
In the field you find someone you don‘t like and you salute them to see if there‘s any snipers around   :)  

The form of saluting we use started with knights etc.. but didnt saluting start with the romans or something?
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Offline PikaChe

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2003, 18:18:00 »
Romans did salute with right hand over heart thumping jesture thing.

Proud Civilian

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2003, 18:53:00 »
I know this may seem odd but, if you rent the Robert Reford movie The Last Castle (it‘s a newer film) he gives quite a good explanation of saluting. Also the act of saluting wether Roman, Greek (they raised their hand to their shoulder) or modern has a history in paranoia, it was done so that a lower ranking soldier or officer could display their hands thus showing that they were not in possesion of a weapon that could be used to kill the superior officer.   :cdn:

ronjeremiesdong

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2003, 16:38:00 »
Maybe I have seen too many movies, but I had the assumtpion that you didn‘t salut outdoors, not indoors due to and enemies attention being drawn to a target of opportunity, e.g. an officer. I remember having to salut our officers anywhere in the regiment except the mess of course. I always thought that as a recruit, one should be informed of all these nuances in the form of a book similar to the ‘warrior‘s pam‘, which was indispensible in regards to field and war craft. Recruits shouldn‘t have to learn things little by little and sometimes the wrong way - maybe I‘m a bit anal, but I like carved in stone protocol, not by way of mouth which seems to always contradict the next person.

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2003, 18:27:00 »
The best advice, in all seriousness, is to stop thinking about it.

If you are in doubt, salute.  I‘ve never gotten in trouble for saluting "when I shouldn‘t."  On the other hand, I have been corrected for not saluting, though that hasn‘t happened in many years.

If anyone is really oh so concerned that "gee, I don‘t want to look stupid", you may as well give up on a career in the Forces right now.  Your first years are all about paying dues and learning things the hard way at times.

Salute often, salute with pride, and don‘t be too chicken to salute because it makes you feel uncomfortable.  Paying respect isn‘t something we‘re supposed to be afraid of.

And when you walk past the National Flag flying outside the building you work in, salute that too - every time.

Salute the flag outside of Wendy‘s when you stop for a hamburger on the way to parade.

Okay, don‘t salute the flag on the back of that **** ‘s Angel, but you get the idea.

I can‘t imagine anyone getting in too much trouble for having "too much respect."

And once you‘ve been in longer than ten minutes, you will start to get an appreciation for where and when to salute; as pointed out, every station or base is a bit different.
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Offline PikaChe

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2003, 13:19:00 »
Question: When two guys are walking by an officer, do both of them salute, or only one of them salute?

Offline MikeM

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2003, 13:29:00 »
If one is a higher rank then they are to salute as I have been told, or if theres just 2 people walking and are the same rank, usually the one walking closest to the officer will salute while the other checks his arms to his side. Or they both can salute.

Offline Caz

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2003, 17:26:00 »
All the info you need to know about saluting is found in A-PD-201-000/PT-000 (CF Manual of Drill and Ceremonial).

From Chapter 1, Section 2:  
Quote
FORMED MILITARY GROUPS
6. Compliments on behalf of a formed military
group are normally given by the person in command
of the group.

7. At the halt:
a. The person in command will order the group
to attention before saluting.
b. When the group is armed, it shall be brought
to attention and then may be brought to the
shoulder arms position before the person in
charge gives the appropriate salute.
8. On the march:
a. The person in charge of a formed military
unit shall personally salute when passing
junior officers (Captains and Lieutenants)
superior to himself in rank. When passing
senior officers superior to himself in rank, the
person in charge shall order EYES
RIGHT/LEFT and salute with the hand while
turning head and eyes in the required
direction.
b. When bearing arms at the trail, the person in
command shall shoulder arms before
proceeding as detailed in subparagraph a.
above.

INDIVIDUAL

9. Officers shall salute all officers of higher rank
and shall return all compliments paid them. Senior
officers receiving compliments from marching troops
on a ceremonial parade shall hold the salute as each
individual component passes directly by in review.
10. Non-commissioned members shall salute all
commissioned officers.
11. Officers and non-commissioned members
not part of a formed military group shall pay individual
compliments to an approaching higher ranking officer
(see also paragraph 12). The senior officer receiving
the salute shall return the compliment, while military
persons accompanying that officer give an eyes
right/left in the same manner as saluting without
headdress (paragraph 15) during the exchange of
compliments or greetings.

12. When an officer approaches a group of noncommissioned
members, the senior of the group or
the person who recognizes the officer first shall take
command and call the group to attention: the senior
or person in charge shall then alone salute. Junior
members shall draw their senior’s attention to
approaching officers if the circumstances require and
allow.
13. Individual compliments to a formed military
group on the march and under the command of an
officer shall be paid by halting, turning to face the
group and saluting. The salute should be maintained
until the entire group has passed.
14. While bearing arms, individuals shall pay
compliments to officers by saluting at the shoulder
arms position. Sentries shall pay compliments
accordance with Chapter 10, Section 4.
15. When in uniform and not wearing headdress,
compliments shall be paid by standing at attention.
on the march, arms shall be swung and the head
turned to the left or right as required.
16. Nurses white caps are considered marks of
qualification rather than headdress. Officers wearing
this cap shall pay and receive compliments as if they
had no headdress.
JRC

Offline Caz

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Re: Can somebody explain saluting?
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2003, 17:29:00 »
CFP 201, continued:  
Quote
CIVILIAN DRESS
17. Appropriate compliments shall be paid when
recognizing an officer dressed in civilian clothing.
18. When dressed in civilian clothes, all
members shall stand at attention and male members
(less Sikhs) shall remove headdress, on any
occasion when a salute would be correct in uniform
and extreme winter weather conditions allow. On the
march, the headdress is raised or removed, if
applicable, and the head turned right or left. When
headdress is not worn, it is correct to turn the head
as required and offer a polite greeting.

SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES

19. Buildings. Salutes are not given indoors in
either public or service buildings except on parades,
ceremonial occasions, in areas so designated by
commanders, or when entering or leaving the office
of an officer who should be paid compliments by
virtue of his rank or appointment. Further:
a. it is correct to turn the head and offer a polite
greeting when meeting an officer in the
common area of a public or service building;
and
b. it is not customary for those other than Sikhs
working in a building to wear headdress
when visiting another office in the same
building. In this circumstance, compliments
are paid by briefly coming to attention at the
office door.
20. Cenotaphs. Officers and men shall salute
individually and formed military groups shall pay
compliments when passing the National War
Memorial and cenotaphs to military dead.
21. Colours. Individuals and formed military
groups shall pay compliments to uncased Colours,
except when the Colour is part of an escort to the
deceased during a funeral (see subparagraph 23a.).
a. Halted armed groups shall present arms.
b. Military groups marching past uncased
Colours shall give eyes right/left.
c. See also paragraph 30.
22. Religious Services and Buildings.
Conventional marks of respect and courtesy shall be
observed during religious services and in places of
worship, depending on the customs of the religion
involved and the faith of the member (see A-AD-265-
000/AG-001, CF Dress Instructions, Chapter 2,
Section 3 for further explanation).
23. Funerals. The following compliments shall
be paid at state, military and civilian funerals:
a. The remains of the deceased take seniority
and alone receive compliments during a
funeral.
b. Members shall wear headdress and pay
respects by saluting when passing the casket
at a vigil.
c. Formed military groups shall be halted and
turned to face a passing funeral procession,
and the officer or member in charge will
salute the deceased while passing. Individual
compliments shall be paid in a similar
fashion.
d. Individuals and formed military groups
bearing arms shall salute a passing funeral
procession by presenting arms.
e. Salutes, as above, shall be accorded the
casket during interments.
f. At the end of a Service funeral, the officiating
chaplain will proceed to the foot of the grave
to pay his respects. Service members should
then proceed to the foot of the grave, in order
of seniority, to pay individual respects by
saluting. When numbers warrant, members
may approach in small informal groups.
g. See also paragraph 26.
24. Guards and Sentries. Detailed instructions
for paying compliments by guards and sentries are
found in Chapter 10.
25. Courtesy Salutes
a. Foreign officers shall be saluted in the same
manner as Canadian officers unless the
circumstances clearly dictate otherwise.
b. Service members may express their respect
for individual civilians by using a salute as a
formal means of greeting or farewell.
26. Memorial Services and Funerals.
Compliments to the dead shall be paid during the
sounding of the calls “Last Post” and “Rouse” when
they are used in memorial services and funerals.
Compliments will commence on the first note and
terminate on the last of each call when sounded.
Compliments shall be paid as follows:
a. All ranks who are not part of a formed
military group shall salute.
b. Formed military groups will be brought to
attention and all officers shall salute. A Royal
or General Salute will be ordered if
appropriate. The funeral guard will present
arms, the escort will remain at the order,
officers that form part of the escort will salute
with the hand. In the latter case the salute
shall be held for the silent interval between
“Last Post” and “Rouse”.
c. On defence establishments, all vehicles in
the vicinity shall be stopped and the
occupants shall dismount and pay
compliments.
27. Lecture Rooms
a. When a visiting officer or dignitary senior to
the instructor enters a lecture room, theatre,
etc., the instructor or senior member present
shall call the group to attention. All members
of the class shall sit at attention, arms
straight at the side, head and eyes to the
front and heels together.
b. Where it may be impracticable or hazardous
to call the group to attention, the order,
STAND FAST, will be given. Members of the
group shall suspend all possible action,
without causing physical danger to
themselves or others, or damage to
equipment, until the order CARRY ON is
given.
There‘s a couple of more pages on this, but this covers the brunt of it.

-R
JRC

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protocol
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2005, 14:32:20 »
A couple of points of protocol I've always been a little unsure of.

1) Suppose an officer with head-dress on passes by an NCM without head-dress.  The NCM checks his arms to pay a complement.  Should the officer return the compliment with a salute, or should he simply check his arms back (he has a head-dress on, but he wasn't actually saluted).

2) Suppose an officer joining a new unit introduces himself (or herself) to an NCM working at his unit (say a clerk).  Is it appropriate for the officer to shake the NCM's hand when the introduction is made?

3) When an NCM salutes an officer, is it appropraite for the officer to say "thank you"?  Really the NCM was just following protocol and saluting the commission, so I am inclined to think that thanks are not appropriate, but I know some officers who do say "thank you". Comments?

Subtleties like this aren't really taught at BMQ or BOTP.

Offline Meridian

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Re: protocol
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2005, 14:36:48 »
 
Quote
Suppose an officer with head-dress on passes by an NCM without head-dress.  The NCM checks his arms to pay a complement.  Should the officer return the compliment with a salute, or should he simply check his arms back (he has a head-dress on, but he wasn't actually saluted).

I was told that checking of the arms IS paying a compliment...  You just do not pay it via salute when you yourself are not wearing headdress.

Given the story of the knight raising his armour to show respect (and himself), it wouldn't make much sense if you weren't wearing any covering at all, I guess.

Could be wrong, but thats what I was taught.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: protocol
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2005, 14:47:06 »
A couple of points of protocol I've always been a little unsure of.

1) Suppose an officer with head-dress on passes by an NCM without head-dress. The NCM checks his arms to pay a complement. Should the officer return the compliment with a salute, or should he simply check his arms back (he has a head-dress on, but he wasn't actually saluted).


Yes, the officer should return the compliment with a salute.


Quote
2) Suppose an officer joining a new unit introduces himself (or herself) to an NCM working at his unit (say a clerk). Is it appropriate for the officer to shake the NCM's hand when the introduction is made?

In most circumstances it may be the courteous thing to do.


Quote
3) When an NCM salutes an officer, is it appropraite for the officer to say "thank you"? Really the NCM was just following protocol and saluting the commission, so I am inclined to think that thanks are not appropriate, but I know some officers who do say "thank you". Comments?

Subtleties like this aren't really taught at BMQ or BOTP.

Again, a courtesy would be nice......Usually both would use a courtesy, such as "Good Day, Sir"...."Good day,_______"

GW
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Offline Inch

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Re: protocol
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2005, 15:05:21 »
GW already answered the first question.

For the second one, there is nothing wrong with shaking  hands, I always shake hands with someone the first time I meet them, be it the CO, XO, Chief Clerk or a one hook apprentice technician.

Third, for saluting, I usually use a compliment, Good Morning, Good Afternoon, Good Evening, whatever the case may be if I don't know the individual, if I do, then I'll say "Good Morning Jim", (first name since I'm Air Force and that's how we operate  ;) ). I'd have to say that salutes are pretty rare where I work since most of the people I meet are on the hangar floor or on the flight line and headdress is no-no in those locales.  Sometimes you're just thinking about something else or they catch you by surprise and all you can manage to say is Thank you. I don't think it's a sign of disrespect or anything like that, there's usually more factors in play than what meets the eye.

Don't sweat it, just watch the guys that have been around for a while and mimic them until you get a feel for it.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: protocol
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2005, 15:27:08 »
As far as a handshake I think that would be initiated by the senior man. If none is offered then the junior shouldnt initate.

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Re: protocol
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2005, 17:29:33 »
I concur with all above.

Remember, as an officer extending courtesy will always ensure people see you in a positive light.
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Offline Sailing Instructor

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Re: protocol
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2005, 20:36:11 »
The checking arms thing seems to be a myth (or perhaps an old custom) as it is not mentioned in the drill manual, ch 1, s 2.

Quote
15. When in uniform and not wearing headdress,
compliments shall be paid by standing at attention. If
on the march, arms shall be swung and the head
turned to the left or right as required.

18. When dressed in civilian clothes, all
members shall stand at attention and male members
(less Sikhs) shall remove headdress, on any
occasion when a salute would be correct in uniform
and extreme winter weather conditions allow. On the
march, the headdress is raised or removed, if
applicable, and the head turned right or left. When
headdress is not worn, it is correct to turn the head
as required and offer a polite greeting.

I.e. just like civilians are supposed to do (but don't as it seems we need strict rules to continue formalities in society).   The checking arms is a compliment to be paid while at the double, as far as I know.

I've two questions of my own, though:

1: para 13. of chapter, section 2 reads as follows:
Quote
13. Individual compliments to a formed military
group on the march and under the command of an
officer shall be paid by halting, turning to face the
group and saluting. The salute should be maintained
until the entire group has passed.

Does this mean, for example, that I would halt, turn, & salute a group being marched around base by a commissioned officer?   Or would this only apply to a squad of commissioned officers (e.g. a supernumerary division)?   I've never seen this done save on the march past & that is already covered in the manual (not to mention that the gp salutes the Reviewing officer 1st.   Certainly I've saluted officers marching formed military groups around--but only in the same manner as if they were alone.

Second question: para 28, part d reads as follows:
Quote
28. d. anthems are not sung when played as part of
a salute, or on a parade other than a church
parade (remembrance or commemorative
service/ceremony). If ordered to sing on a
drumhead or remembrance ceremony, the
parade will be brought to attention and all will
join in the singing of the National Anthem,
officers do not salute.

Does this mean that one does not sing God save the Queen & O Canada only during the Royal salute/vice-regal salute?  Or does one not sing O Canada also when the flag is hoisted/lowered & a band is playing (because you are saluting but it's not the same sort of salute as the royal & viceregal salutes.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2005, 20:44:46 by Sailing Instructor »