Afghan Interpreters, Others Fast-tracking to Canada

[Altair]

If Afghani's were provided with the means to defend themselves, would they revolt again the Taliban?

If history is any guide, with or without outside assistance, individual regions will splinter off and declare themselves free of centralized rule.

Afghanistan is more reminiscent of what the holy Roman empire used to be, a bunch of independent little fiefdoms that sometimes pledge loyalty to idea of Afghanistan, and sometimes do not.

 

[dimsum]

If Afghani's were provided with the means to defend themselves, would they revolt again the Taliban?

Wait...I've seen this before...

 

[CBH99]

The situation has been degrading hourly. I don’t think there are any more flights out for locals. They’re on their own.

It went from “There are concerns they may attack Kabul within 30 days” to “Off we go, sorry whoever we left behind!” in less than 24hrs.

Insane.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The politicians and diplomats underestimate the enemies ability to plan ahead and develop the battle space. I would not doubt that various generals and intel types warned them months if not a year ago what was happening, but it would fall on deaf ears. Ironic justice would be to get the terps, State Department guards out and leave the State department people to negotiate their way out.....

 

[Maxman1]

Lessons Learned from Saigon.

"Next time we get a bigger helicopter".

Like this?

 

[OldSolduer]

It went from “There are concerns they may attack Kabul within 30 days” to “Off we go, sorry whoever we left behind!” in less than 24hrs.

Insane.

From 30 days to about 30 hours. It’s a travesty, I’m at a loss for words.

 

[Good2Golf]

1975
_____

2021

 

[dimsum]

1975
_____

2021

View attachment 66049

To clarify, in the 2021 picture, the Chinook was flying somewhere and they got the pic, not that it was evacuating people from that rooftop.

 

[Good2Golf]

To clarify, in the 2021 picture, the Chinook was flying somewhere and they got the pic, not that it was evacuating people from that rooftop.

Yes, it’s circling around US Embassy (that’s the Wazir Akbar Khan hill behind it (of ‘The Kite Runner’ book fame). Helos can land inside the fence, behind and north of the building in the photo, just beside the tennis courts.

I don’t believe there will be any rooftop evacuation, at least not the Americans.

 

[ballz]

Doesn't really seem like it can be characterized as an attack on Kabul. Sounds like everyone abandoned post and the Taliban just walked on in...

 

[Brad Sallows]

Next time someone goes on about how competent the current governments are, I'll be thinking about this.

I had figured that the templated solutions for evacuating friends and allies would have advanced past sh!t-show, but apparently not yet.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If Afghani's were provided with the means to defend themselves, would they revolt again the Taliban?

At the risk of being cynical at a shitty time, if years of training and transferring arms/equipment to Afghan forces has led to this outcome ...

I wonder how much of this is urban-rural divide. I stand to be corrected, but I suspect folks living in rural areas may already be far more conservative than those in urban areas, which means some of the rural folks may not mind a bit of the Taliban's flavour of law and order. That, and whatever happened with the security forces, leading to the steamrollering-in of Taliban 2.0? Happy to hear from those more familiar with the demographic landscape.

 

[dimsum]

At the risk of being cynical at a shitty time, if years of training and transferring arms/equipment to Afghan forces has led to this outcome ...

I wonder how much of this is urban-rural divide. I stand to be corrected, but I suspect folks living in rural areas may already be far more conservative than those in urban areas, which means some of the rural folks may not mind a bit of the Taliban's flavour of law and order. That, and whatever happened with the security forces, leading to the steamrollering-in of Taliban 2.0? Happy to hear from those more familiar with the demographic landscape.

I'm not that much more familiar, but from reading other posts, it might not be so much an "urban/rural" as a tribal divide. From what I've read, the people identify with their tribe/ethnicity, then perhaps the nation as a whole. So, for example, southern Pashtuns wouldn't care so much what happens to the Tajiks in the north.

Realistically, the "nation" of Afghanistan is a bit of a misnomer given how the country was really governed (ie. the central govt in Kabul really didn't have that much power outside their immediate area).

 

[OldSolduer]

I wonder if the Taliban took a page out of Ghengis Khan's playbook. You know, raze a village, rape all the women and girls, then slaughter all. Then move on to the next village and say "See what happened to village X for resisting us?"

 

[dimsum]

I wonder if the Taliban took a page out of Ghengis Khan's playbook. You know, raze a village, rape all the women and girls, then slaughter all. Then move on to the next village and say "See what happened to village X for resisting us?"

They totally did. Although the razing/raping was after they were given a chance to surrender.

 

[Altair]

If there is any consolidation, I think the taliban have made a massive strategic blunder.

They have orchestrated a largely bloodless takeover of Afghanistan bur in doing so have laid the seeds of their coming headaches.

Most of the fighting aged males, most of the Afghan army is alive, and once these men start making their way back to their villages will likely be amongst the first groups to take issue with the way the taliban are running things.

The Afghan army may not have been worth it as a standing army to face the taliban but will likely make a good source of recruits for those warlords who will grow tired of the taliban in due time.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If there is any consolidation, I think the taliban have made a massive strategic blunder.

They have orchestrated a largely bloodless takeover of Afghanistan bur in doing so have laid the seeds of their coming headaches.

Most of the fighting aged males, most of the Afghan army is alive, and once these men start making their way back to their villages will likely be amongst the first groups to take issue with the way the taliban are running things.

The Afghan army may not have been worth it as a standing army to face the taliban but will likely make a good source of recruits for those warlords who will grow tired of the taliban in due time.

Seriously?

This terrible disaster (for the West and moderate Afghans) has been a demonstration of multi-level strategic offensive skill the likes of which has rarely been seen in recent history. Parallels with the Fall of Saigon are pretty apt, IMHO.

As a result, my guess is that those warlords are probably already on board already... or dead.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Pakistan is the real winner here - they've completely secured their western flank. Look to them to create more trouble for India in Kashmir shortly.

 

[Altair]

Seriously?

This terrible disaster (for the West and moderate Afghans) has been a demonstration of multi-level strategic offensive skill the likes of which has rarely been seen in recent history. Parallels with the Fall of Saigon are pretty apt, IMHO.

As a result, my guess is that those warlords are probably already on board already... or dead.

It's a disaster, but I don't see the taliban being able to control the entire nation for long.

The same factors that worked against the west and the soviets work against them as well.

Toss in countless former military members not killed on the battlefield and allowed to return to their villages? At some point regions are going to start breaking away.

Afghanistan. Easy to conquer, impossible to rule.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Just in case you needed some more tragic imagery...

Afghans cling to USAF C-17 during American evacuation, fall to their death


Kabul — Desperation reigned at Kabul’s airport on Monday, a day after the Afghan capital was taken by Islamist Taliban militants, as those hoping to flee the country crowded in and sought to get on any flight that would take them.

According to witnesses and social media transmissions, hundreds of people have been at the airport since Sunday, sometimes jumping turnstiles and trying to force their way onto departing aeroplanes. Some of those seeking to depart weren’t even in possession of a passport.

There have also been reports of deaths at the airport and, earlier, of US forces firing warning shots as they try to organize the evacuation of US personnel from the country US forces occupied in 2001.


Afghans cling to USAF C-17 during American evacuation, fall to their death