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A Deeply Fractured US

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QV said:
What do you attribute the silent acceptance of this kind of malfeasance by the lay person who would like to see Trump jailed?

If that comes across as a loaded question, I won't be offended if you outright ignore it.
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I'll bite. I think it might have something to do with how public he's been about it. He's a loudmouth asshole who flaunts his position and authority. I think that rubs people the wrong way and makes him easy to hate. In comparison, the established political class who may or may not be doing the exact same things behind the scenes are at least keeping it behind closed doors and therefore not drawing the public's ire.

IMO, fuck em all. If theyre doing criminal shit then they should face the consequences regardless of party.
 
QV said:
What do you attribute the silent acceptance of this kind of malfeasance by the lay person who would like to see Trump jailed?
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Human nature. Red Team vs Blue Team. In Trump's case, he unseated both establishments and deprived them all of a seat at the presidential administration trough for four years. The Democrats were basically measuring the offices for drapes when they were shocked by Trump's election; they're angry. The Bush Republicans have been marginalized by a permanent shift in conservative moods; they're angry.

People today aren't miraculously different from our forebears. People who want power and authority go where the power and authority lie, and people who want power and authority for some reason seem to be more lacking in scruples than most.
 
Brad Sallows said:
People today aren't miraculously different from our forebears. People who want power and authority go where the power and authority lie, and people who want power and authority for some reason seem to be more lacking in scruples than most.
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You are correct. The veneer of "civilization" wears off when the chips are down and you are trying to survive. The COVID lockdowns and resulting stories are but a small example of how humanity will act in a real crisis.
 
Brad Sallows said:
The problem is not that Trump has not committed likely criminal acts. The problem is that the "they" who are trying to take him down can't resist choosing only a few important battles to fight, and at the same time "they" are conspicuously incurious when it comes to pursuing other people who have committed likely criminal acts. For example, it is simply a matter of record now that various players in the drama have made demonstrably false statements under circumstances in which making false statements is a crime, and not been prosecuted. And it defies common sense to believe that a single credible accusation of Russian Collusion bribery would not be enough to launch another special prosecution, provided Trump were the target.
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So more whataboutism?

He not only held the records he shouldn't have ever had, he had them in a golf course where spies were previously arrested, in an unsecured area, fought the return, deliberately obscured that they had them, and generally lied and acted like a huge public asshole about it to try and get FBI and DOJ persons targeted by the mob.

Intent and patterns of behaviours factor into all of it, and his has been and continues to be egregious. No one should be above the law, but there is a really good reason why there is prosecutor discretion, judges have sentencing discretion etc as there is a wide spectrum of mitigating/aggravating factors.

This guy did really stupid things, that put national security and people's lives in danger, then continued to behave like an asshole, and is continuing to behave like an asshole. If he's getting extra special treatment maybe it's because he's being biggly extra all the time?

When his lawyers continually need lawyers, and he continues to dig his own hole deeper, at what point do you think it's not 'them' and maybe it's just him?
 
Navy_Pete said:
So more whataboutism?
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No, rule of law - the law is enforced on everyone, irrespective of their character flaws and other irrelevant details. As you wrote, no-one should be above the law. For example, everyone who thought it was a very bad thing that Flynn lied to investigators has really no credible position to adopt except that everyone else who lies to investigators (or Congress, or some other august body) ought be investigated, and if appropriate, prosecuted. When this does not happen, the appearance of impropriety exists and trust in the principle of the rule of law is corroded. When it happens a lot such that an apparent imbalance exists between political factions, trust in electoral fairness is corroded. That's one of the aggravating factors of "a deeply fractured US". No amount of fine legal parsing to defend selectivity can mitigate that.

Being a gigantic arrogant ass is a character flaw, not a crime.
 
Holy crap. Not only do they have evidence, including audio recordings, photos, texts etc of improper retention and storage, they have him on tape showing off secret attack plans he knows are secret to people he knows shouldn't see them?

The mental gymnastics to defend him now will be unbelievable, but these are legitimate state secrets.
 
MARS said:
I too enjoy reading TS/SCI material when I am taking a dump. Really helps to focus the mind
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I suppose if email servers are kept in bathrooms, bulk document storage was a logical next step. They should have used one of the old-style US army barracks with the no-partition multi-user toilet rooms. Then they could hold briefings, too.
 
Brad Sallows said:
I suppose if email servers are kept in bathrooms, bulk document storage was a logical next step. They should have used one of the old-style US army barracks with the no-partition multi-user toilet rooms. Then they could hold briefings, too.
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The LBJ way of handling business
 
He is protected 24/7 by Secret Service agents at Mar-a-Lago. Pictures of boxes mean nothing. We already know they doctored circumstances and photo layouts that were a fraud when they raided him. He had already been through an inspection and all they asked was for a better locking system on the document vault. They were protected 24/7 by the Secret Service. To say otherwise puts the Secret Service in a real bad light and calls their integrity into,question. Biden has thousands of documents, spread all over hells half acre around spots all over the US, taken when he was VP. He wasn't entitled to them. He stole them from the US government. Tell me that isn't a crime of the highest order. Everyone else that does it is in prison or on the run. But nope, not Biden.

This is not 'whataboutism', that's not what this is. Those decrying it as such are superfluous and against understanding the true underlying problem. It is about capitol crimes committed by the person Trump is running against. The state is being used to interfere in the election process and a movement to a socialist government.

They can't afford to let Trump in again. Not only does it fuck up their agenda to subjugate the population, but if he does get in, a whole shitload of the current administration and their minions are going to jail for a long time.

He is the biggest threat to the democrat party than anyone or anything else. They need him out of the picture for good and they are using every available option, legal or illegal to do it. They cannot lose the election in 24. How far will they go? We're talking about a nation that has resorted to assassination, more than once, to solve what some people see as a political problem with a president

Even Trumps enemies and those that don't agree with him are decrying what the US government is doing. It is obvious to everyone.

I know it gives many of you glee and happiness to see this happening to Trump. However, this isn't about Trump. It's about the rule of law and the mercenary use of it to interfere with an election and rid the democrats of the burr under their saddle. And even if proven, you won't eat crow. You hate him. But keep listening to and believing the partisan press, the bleeting and lies from the likes of Schiff, Comey and Schumer and other traitors and the demented missives of a lying, confused, cheating head of a corrupt crime family, that needs to be directed by someone dressed as the Easter Bunny and can't ride a bike.
 
Post marked as personal attack and unacceptable behaviour.
Navy_Pete said:
So more whataboutism?

He not only held the records he shouldn't have ever had, he had them in a golf course where spies were previously arrested, in an unsecured area, fought the return, deliberately obscured that they had them, and generally lied and acted like a huge public asshole about it to try and get FBI and DOJ persons targeted by the mob.

Intent and patterns of behaviours factor into all of it, and his has been and continues to be egregious. No one should be above the law, but there is a really good reason why there is prosecutor discretion, judges have sentencing discretion etc as there is a wide spectrum of mitigating/aggravating factors.

This guy did really stupid things, that put national security and people's lives in danger, then continued to behave like an asshole, and is continuing to behave like an asshole. If he's getting extra special treatment maybe it's because he's being biggly extra all the time?

When his lawyers continually need lawyers, and he continues to dig his own hole deeper, at what point do you think it's not 'them' and maybe it's just him?
Click to expand...

I guess you have zero faith in the bunch of Secret Service Agents that guard those same premises 24/7 and it's not whataboutism. It's about felonies and Capitol crimes commited by democrats, who have been caught time after time after time lying through their teeth and manufacturing evidence. It could be just as easily said that that's the way the FBI stacked them waiting for the truck. But you hate Trump, so that's all you need. If it's against him, you're happy, whether it's the truth or not. Nothing of what you say has been proven in court. You're just parroting the corrupt press.



"This guy did really stupid things, that put national security and people's lives in danger, then continued to behave like an asshole, and is continuing to behave like an asshole. If he's getting extra special treatment maybe it's because he's being biggly extra all the time?"

Sorry, thought you were talking about Creepy Uncle Joe your Demented Paedo
 
Fishbone Jones said:
Sorry, thought you were talking about Creepy Uncle Joe your Demented Paedo
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Seriously?? Argue within the limits we have set upon in our guidelines or walk away for a bit.
Keep that up and we'll have to help you walk away.
Bruce
Staff
 
Don't lose sight of the fact that Trump is in this fix due to his own arrogance, high-handedness, and inability to stop running at the mouth, and above all that what he did is illegal (in several respects) and looks to be easily provable. In particular, regardless of the crimes attached to merely possessing the documents, he's on the hook for the self-inflicted jeopardies of false statements and obstruction. What others did or have (or have not) been held to account for isn't relevant to the legal questions. At best, the matter will be settled (plea deal or jury findings) before the primaries begin. At worst, matters will be allowed to drag out through the primaries and perhaps beyond.

Since people are discussing it as a matter of political strategy, it's obvious that some on one side would like the matter to drag on in order to soil the Republican primary, and some on the other side are completely aware of this - there's no plausible "oh, this is just the way these things unfold" deniability. They know, we know they know, they know we know they know, etc. The risk of not winding up before Christmas so that voters have a clear guilty/not-guilty resolution to incorporate into their decision making is that an increased chance of election is granted to Trump - voters will be weighing an undecided documents trial against an appearance of major bribery, and their standard is more likely to be "balance of probability" than "proof beyond reasonable doubt". No-one has come forward yet to explain what kind of awesome services the Biden clan or its web of LLCs offers that merits millions of dollars, mostly from foreigners.
 
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